Disappointed that Tesla.app doesn't support the Roadster?

[S-2000 Roadster]

I've had fairly good luck charging my Roadster with the CAN SR connected to Tesla chargers at various hotels and public stations. Granted, sometimes I get a fault and my charge port turns red, even though it shows the Voltage and available Amperage before dying. When it works, though, I get 40A or 48A and once even got 70A. The time that I got 70A was after all the other Tesla Models left the parking garage, which makes me think that the site had been rate-limited while all the charging stations were full. Anyway, the point of this opening story is that I know the Roadster can charge from the NACS connector using the CAN SR. I think all that's needed is that the power is on, and the grounding doesn't have any issues.

Meanwhile, at charging stations like my apartment, where the new glossy black Tesla chargers have been installed, the Tesla.app refuses to enable charging. In this specific case, I happen to have tested the new NACS chargers before Tesla required billing. Before billing was enabled, the chargers were "on" all the time, and my CAN SR was all I needed to charge my Roadster. After they switched to billing for service, I can only use the white Tesla chargers with the J-1772 connector. That's fine unless they're all busy, or if I want a higher charge rate.

Comparing my experience with free and open Tesla NACS chargers at hotels (seems to work, much of the time) to my experience with Tesla.app-controlled NACS chargers (never works, except before installation is complete), it seems like there's no electronic reason why Roadsters can't charge at NACS AC chargers. The only block is that the Tesla.app programmers haven't decided to turn on the chargers when someone with a Roadster (and appropriate adapter) connects.

Related question: How can I tell - by looking - whether a Tesla NACS is AC or DC? Do the DC chargers report a Voltage and Current on the VDS? Or would the Roadster never even know that the DC cable is connected? I've had so many faults with Tesla chargers that I'm not sure whether they're DC chargers that shouldn't work or AC chargers that perhaps need a ground fault or some other issue fixed.

Another Related question: Does anyone besides H.C. Sharp make a Roadster charging adapter for NACS AC connectors?

 

[IslandRoadster]

Comparing my experience with free and open Tesla NACS chargers at hotels (seems to work, much of the time) to my experience with Tesla.app-controlled NACS chargers (never works, except before installation is complete), it seems like there's no electronic reason why Roadsters can't charge at NACS AC chargers. The only block is that the Tesla.app programmers haven't decided to turn on the chargers when someone with a Roadster (and appropriate adapter) connects.

that's pretty crappy that Tesla would block things like that. I wonder if Henry could make some change to the CAN connectors to get them to work again?

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

I don’t think if has anything to do with the adapter, because the same adapter worked before billing was added. I suspect this is purely a dependency on talking to new Models to reduce their draw during shared use. They’d probably have to let any connected Roadster charge at full speed. Given how few of us there are, it’s fair to give us priority.

 

[hcsharp]

Those chargers require serial comms with the car in order to implement the billing/payment system. The Roadster is not capable of serial communication. I thought about implementing the serial comms in the CAN SR but it would require a lot of development time for a very limited market.

You can tell if a Tesla NACS charger is DC by the size of the cable and the very different pedestal. None of the wall mounted chargers are DC. Connecting to a DC NACS connector with a CAN SR will never display anything on the VDS other than an error message.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Those chargers require serial comms with the car in order to implement the billing/payment system. The Roadster is not capable of serial communication. I thought about implementing the serial comms in the CAN SR but it would require a lot of development time for a very limited market.

Thanks for the response. I would say that the chargers do not require the serial communications, but that the app currently requires it. I say this because I was able to successfully charge from the Tesla branded NACS AC chargers a few times before they activated billing.

In other words, the chargers are fully capable of providing all of the signals that the Roadster needs to successfully charge. It's only a software configuration that makes them dependent upon the serial communications.

I totally understand that it makes no sense to design something into the CAN SR or similar adapter to get around this. The fact that it worked at one point with the existing CAN SR adapter design tells me that Tesla could solve this if they wanted to. Whatever they use for billing non-Tesla customers could be used to bill Tesla Roadster owners.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

You can tell if a Tesla NACS charger is DC by the size of the cable and the very different pedestal. None of the wall mounted chargers are DC. Connecting to a DC NACS connector with a CAN SR will never display anything on the VDS other than an error message.

This is very helpful.

My assumption was that I should not expect the large supercharger pedestal to work with the CAN SR, even though there is a physical fit for the connector.

It seems that the wall mounted chargers along I-5 just happen to be in various states of repair (or disrepair). I think that I always got some indication on the VDS, so that indicates that the AC NACS was prepared to charge but ran into a fault.

 

[miimura]

Can you give a Plugshare link to the chargers you're trying to use? I am having a hard time getting it clear in my head exactly what equipment is being used and who is normally able to use it. If only modern Tesla vehicles are able to use it and there is no app based authorization for non-Tesla vehicles, then it's never going to work with the Roadster. The Gen 3 Tesla Wall Connector can be provisioned for paid charging. As far as I know, the only way to pay is for the charger to communicate with the car over single wire CAN, and for the car to authorize the and activate through the Tesla cloud, which processes payment with the card on your account that is normally used for billing Supercharging. This authorization doesn't work with J1772 vehicles and won't work with the Roadster. If you're talking about something else, then let us know so we can help you figure it out.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Here is the PlugShare link

Aspira Seattle Apartment Homes | Seattle, WA | EV Station

Aspira Resident Parking Only

www.plugshare.com

I thought there might be an error in that link, since it says "location 5" but this was the first public charging in Seattle - although they were ChargePoint at that time, and those have all been removed so the Tesla chargers could be installed. Let me know if the link doesn't work.

I understand what you're saying about the car authorization, but the hardware in these chargers can be configured to charge without that authorization. I say that because I completed two charging sessions with my CAN SR adapter on the Roadster before Tesla enabled billing, and nobody changed the hardware in between. Perhaps the firmware is only capable of either Roadster compatibility with no billing and no authorization or becomes incompatible as soon as billing is turned on. However, it is certainly possible for these Tesla chargers to successfully charge a Roadster in some configuration.

These are the new Gen 3, white face Tesla chargers. I remember being disappointed that they were only charging at 16A, but that's a wiring limitation during installation, and nothing to do with the Roadster.

We might have to talk to someone familiar with the Gen 3 charger firmware to know what it's really capable of, or not capable of.

 

[miimura]

Definitely, the Gen3 Wall Connector would be able to charge your Roadster if it was commissioned as a home unit without billing. Once they turn on billing, you must have a S/3/X/Y car in order to charge because it depends on the car communicating with the Tesla cloud to authorize and handle billing.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Definitely, the Gen3 Wall Connector would be able to charge your Roadster if it was commissioned as a home unit without billing. Once they turn on billing, you must have a S/3/X/Y car in order to charge because it depends on the car communicating with the Tesla cloud to authorize and handle billing.

Thanks for this response. This makes much more sense now.

Tesla support was responding with comments about how the Roadster is electrically incompatible, mentioning AC and three-phase versus single-phase, and other comments that seemed to have nothing to do with reality or experience.


Unfortunately, it seems like Tesla would only be able to support Roadsters in one of two ways:

A) Install Gen3 Wall Connectors in public places, but configured for "home" use without billing, so that the few Roadsters that are still on the freeway can charge at full speed (assuming that the electrical supply is sufficient to support 70A). I doubt that this will happen.

B) Modify the Gen3 Wall Connector firmware so that it could be switched between commissions. The app could theoretically verify the account status of a Roadster owner, send a message to the specific Wall Connector, and then charge the Roadster. Billing could be handled the way it's handled for the black face Gen3 J-1772 Wall Connectors, which are obviously able to bill non-Tesla customers. After charging is complete, or the cable is disconnected, the firmware could switch back to S/3/X/Y mode until another Roadster owner uses the Tesla.app to enable a specific station. I also doubt that this firmware and software development will be taken on.

At this point, I'm guessing that it's no longer feasible to take long road trips with the Roadster, nor even to charge at home when a shared garage installs Tesla Gen3 Wall Connectors in "public" commission.

p.s. I see that I got the colors wrong in my original posting.

 

[ViperDoc]

Thanks for this response. This makes much more sense now.

Tesla support was responding with comments about how the Roadster is electrically incompatible, mentioning AC and three-phase versus single-phase, and other comments that seemed to have nothing to do with reality or experience.


Unfortunately, it seems like Tesla would only be able to support Roadsters in one of two ways:

A) Install Gen3 Wall Connectors in public places, but configured for "home" use without billing, so that the few Roadsters that are still on the freeway can charge at full speed (assuming that the electrical supply is sufficient to support 70A). I doubt that this will happen.

B) Modify the Gen3 Wall Connector firmware so that it could be switched between commissions. The app could theoretically verify the account status of a Roadster owner, send a message to the specific Wall Connector, and then charge the Roadster. Billing could be handled the way it's handled for the black face Gen3 J-1772 Wall Connectors, which are obviously able to bill non-Tesla customers. After charging is complete, or the cable is disconnected, the firmware could switch back to S/3/X/Y mode until another Roadster owner uses the Tesla.app to enable a specific station. I also doubt that this firmware and software development will be taken on.

At this point, I'm guessing that it's no longer feasible to take long road trips with the Roadster, nor even to charge at home when a shared garage installs Tesla Gen3 Wall Connectors in "public" commission.

p.s. I see that I got the colors wrong in my original posting.

Road trips might require installation of the aftermarket Jdemo system that lets you charge with direct DC charging (CHAdeMO connector), which are generally the fastest public chargers other than Tesla Superchargers.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Road trips might require installation of the aftermarket Jdemo system that lets you charge with direct DC charging (CHAdeMO connector), which are generally the fastest public chargers other than Tesla Superchargers.

Where is this Jdemo system / connector available? Is it a finished product that is available?

I certainly saw a lot of DC charging stations in the ChargePoint network along my trip.

 

[ViperDoc]

I have one installed in mine. Don't know if the company still makes them but it is from QC charge.
Products. I had mine installed behind a flip down license plate cover (done by the Electrified Garage). It cost me a very small part of the trunk, but after the designer saw people doing things like this, he designed a newer version that was actually meant to be hidden behind the license plate and doesn't required you taking up a small part of the trunk.

 

[IslandRoadster]

I have one installed in mine. Don't know if the company still makes them but it is from QC charge.
Products. I had mine installed behind a flip down license plate cover (done by the Electrified Garage). It cost me a very small part of the trunk, but after the designer saw people doing things like this, he designed a newer version that was actually meant to be hidden behind the license plate and doesn't required you taking up a small part of the trunk.

Not to take this discussion off track, but do NOT buy from QC Charge. We did a bulk buy with them for JdeMO adapters and they largely failed to produce the items. Tony Williams , the owner, took $1000 deposits from most everyone, including me, and has largely refused to return the $1k despite not delivering the promised product despite multiple requests to do so. From my experience, he is not an honest man and it is not an honest company. I would change my opinion if he would return the $1k deposits to the people who made them or produce the JdeMO adapter, none of which have happened.

More in this thread and this one.

 

[ViperDoc]

Not to take this discussion off track, but do NOT buy from QC Charge. We did a bulk buy with them for JdeMO adapters and they largely failed to produce the items. Tony Williams , the owner, took $1000 deposits from most everyone, including me, and has largely refused to return the $1k despite not delivering the promised product despite multiple requests to do so. From my experience, he is not an honest man and it is not an honest company. I would change my opinion if he would return the $1k deposits to the people who made them or produce the JdeMO adapter, none of which have happened.

More in this thread and this one.

That's terrible. I bought mine years ago, and he was very helpful. Sorry to hear a more recent bulk buy went south.