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CFD? Sorry, don't recognize the acronym.
As for current negotiations and how/what to promote... I'm at a loss for a comment on the current situation because well this is a bit embarrassing but I'm running really hard on the raffle right now. These last 13 days can make a big, big difference in the funds that will wind up available for Climate XChange. Plus a couple of the bright boys on this forum have got me thinking harder than before about tax consequences in '15 versus '16 (and paperwork for CXC, oh my), so now in addition to the regular raffle attorney I've had to spin up the accountant and a tax attorney.
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"I work for a living."
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Yeah, chances are better than planned right now.
I've been humbled at how selfless people have been about this raffle. I love that sentiment, "hope you sell 'em all but excited by my chance to win"! Definitely makes me feel good about doing this.
As for current negotiations and how/what to promote... I'm at a loss for a comment on the current situation because well this is a bit embarrassing but I'm running really hard on the raffle right now. These last 13 days can make a big, big difference in the funds that will wind up available for Climate XChange. Plus a couple of the bright boys on this forum have got me thinking harder than before about tax consequences in '15 versus '16 (and paperwork for CXC, oh my), so now in addition to the regular raffle attorney I've had to spin up the accountant and a tax attorney.
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"I work for a living."
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Yeah, chances are better than planned right now.
I've been humbled at how selfless people have been about this raffle. I love that sentiment, "hope you sell 'em all but excited by my chance to win"! Definitely makes me feel good about doing this.
And what about the taxes, Mr. Langerman?
In short: 2016. Winners will have almost 16 months to plan for and minimize any and all tax implications arising from winning the Grand Prize or for that matter any of the other prizes. Form W-2G will go out to Winners by the end of January, 2017 (for income/gift received in 2016). Federal tax credit, state tax credits and/or rebates (if applicable), all will be 2016, too. We will prepay US IRS with a 2016 payment.
I'm sure everyone on this thread was just waiting for me to catch up with the now-famous precedent in US Tax Court, Hornung v. Commissioner, 47 T.C. 428 (1967), in which a Green Bay Packer (Paul Hornung) won the MVP award of the "NFL Championship" (now called the Super Bowl) and was awarded a new Corvette by Sport Magazine. Mr. Hornung first denied that the Corvette should be counted as income at all on the basis that it was a gift and further for "education, artistic, scientific or civic achievement". To which the Tax Court said, who are you kidding, that was no gift nor was there any educational, artistic, scientific or civic achievement involved.
Our hero, Mr. Hornung, then argued that the income should count in '61 rather than in '62. But the Tax Court said nope, it goes with the car, e.g., with title and/or keys.
I was trying to be super-clever about wrapping up the raffle. My goal was to get all of the raffle paperwork done by (roughly speaking) the end of February, 2016. We'd cut a check to the Grand Prize Winner in January, cut a check to Tesla in January, cut a check to the IRS in January, file the MA raffle paperwork within 10 days of the raffle end -- MA wants its cut ASAP!! -- and then get the W-2Gs cut by the end of January and the 1096 by the end of February. Winner might take delivery in February or even later -- adjustable per Winner's desire, really -- but basically CXC would have delivered everything and been done. Hence, the desire to hold the drawing before midnight on New Year's Eve. But the reality is that this plan doesn't fly. The prizes are 2016 prizes. To succeed on the original plan, we'd've had to had the raffle drawing early enough to deliver the prizes in 2015. And we certainly could have achieved that for the 5 special prizes but it would be very hard to do for the Grand Prize given Tesla's lead time to build and deliver. CXC will just have to suck it up and file paperwork in 2017 as well as 2016.
Ha ha ha, just realized one further wrinkle. Gonna love punting this one back at the attorneys. If the Winner picks a Model X; and Tesla won't let us prepay it and insists that they won't take the money until the car is delivered; and further the Model X delivery schedule for an order placed in January, 2016 is, oh, I dunno, sometime in *2017!*, then maybe the Winner takes a taxable event in *2017* and CXC has to fill out paperwork in early 2018! Oh my! That'll teach me to allow Model X into this raffle.
AS ALWAYS, CONSULT YOUR OWN ACCOUNTANT, ATTORNEY OR TAX ATTORNEY FOR LEGAL ADVICE FOR YOUR OWN SITUATION. NOTHING THAT I'VE JUST WRITTEN IS LEGAL ADVICE FROM ME OR CXC OR OUR ATTORNEYS TO YOU. Just some observations about a US Tax Court precedent and a hapless Green Bay Packer MVP.
Alan
P.S. I still welcome your questions or suggestions about this issue.
In short: 2016. Winners will have almost 16 months to plan for and minimize any and all tax implications arising from winning the Grand Prize or for that matter any of the other prizes. Form W-2G will go out to Winners by the end of January, 2017 (for income/gift received in 2016). Federal tax credit, state tax credits and/or rebates (if applicable), all will be 2016, too. We will prepay US IRS with a 2016 payment.
I'm sure everyone on this thread was just waiting for me to catch up with the now-famous precedent in US Tax Court, Hornung v. Commissioner, 47 T.C. 428 (1967), in which a Green Bay Packer (Paul Hornung) won the MVP award of the "NFL Championship" (now called the Super Bowl) and was awarded a new Corvette by Sport Magazine. Mr. Hornung first denied that the Corvette should be counted as income at all on the basis that it was a gift and further for "education, artistic, scientific or civic achievement". To which the Tax Court said, who are you kidding, that was no gift nor was there any educational, artistic, scientific or civic achievement involved.
Our hero, Mr. Hornung, then argued that the income should count in '61 rather than in '62. But the Tax Court said nope, it goes with the car, e.g., with title and/or keys.
I was trying to be super-clever about wrapping up the raffle. My goal was to get all of the raffle paperwork done by (roughly speaking) the end of February, 2016. We'd cut a check to the Grand Prize Winner in January, cut a check to Tesla in January, cut a check to the IRS in January, file the MA raffle paperwork within 10 days of the raffle end -- MA wants its cut ASAP!! -- and then get the W-2Gs cut by the end of January and the 1096 by the end of February. Winner might take delivery in February or even later -- adjustable per Winner's desire, really -- but basically CXC would have delivered everything and been done. Hence, the desire to hold the drawing before midnight on New Year's Eve. But the reality is that this plan doesn't fly. The prizes are 2016 prizes. To succeed on the original plan, we'd've had to had the raffle drawing early enough to deliver the prizes in 2015. And we certainly could have achieved that for the 5 special prizes but it would be very hard to do for the Grand Prize given Tesla's lead time to build and deliver. CXC will just have to suck it up and file paperwork in 2017 as well as 2016.
Ha ha ha, just realized one further wrinkle. Gonna love punting this one back at the attorneys. If the Winner picks a Model X; and Tesla won't let us prepay it and insists that they won't take the money until the car is delivered; and further the Model X delivery schedule for an order placed in January, 2016 is, oh, I dunno, sometime in *2017!*, then maybe the Winner takes a taxable event in *2017* and CXC has to fill out paperwork in early 2018! Oh my! That'll teach me to allow Model X into this raffle.
AS ALWAYS, CONSULT YOUR OWN ACCOUNTANT, ATTORNEY OR TAX ATTORNEY FOR LEGAL ADVICE FOR YOUR OWN SITUATION. NOTHING THAT I'VE JUST WRITTEN IS LEGAL ADVICE FROM ME OR CXC OR OUR ATTORNEYS TO YOU. Just some observations about a US Tax Court precedent and a hapless Green Bay Packer MVP.
Alan
P.S. I still welcome your questions or suggestions about this issue.
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Ha ha ha, just realized one further wrinkle. Gonna love punting this one back at the attorneys. If the Winner picks a Model X; and Tesla won't let us prepay it and insists that they won't take the money until the car is delivered; and further the Model X delivery schedule for an order placed in January, 2016 is, oh, I dunno, sometime in *2017!*, then maybe the Winner takes a taxable event in *2017* and CXC has to fill out paperwork in early 2018! Oh my! That'll teach me to allow Model X into this raffle.
Unless the winner is already a Model X reservation holder......
HankLloydRight
No Roads
I'm not a tax/lawyer/etc either, but why couldn't you just issue the payment to an escrow account (for Tesla and/or the Winner) in 2016 and call it done as far as CXC is concerned?
Never thought of that. Embarrassing, but there it is. I'll look into it. Thanks.
Tedkidd
Member
Sorry, cf&d
Carbon fee and dividend
looks like the ITC for solar has been extended, oil gets to export, but no carbon fee.
Carbon fee and dividend
looks like the ITC for solar has been extended, oil gets to export, but no carbon fee.
National politics make carbon pricing really hard. Citizens' Climate Lobby is working on that. IMHO, it's going to be critical to have some success at the state level first. That's where Climate XChange comes in.
IMHO, when a few states have implemented carbon pricing -- especially if those states have a fair amount of economic clout -- that's when interesting bedfellows climb aboard the legislative train with their own agendas. For instance, oil companies that have recently stated an interest in carbon pricing (Shell, BP) may not be all that motivated right now to actually PUSH for national legislation. And why should they from their point of view? But once the states start fragmenting, I think there's going to be a push to "simplify" and "unify" at the national level so that companies don't have to deal with a fragmented set of laws. THEN the challenge will be to get the national legislation to be as favorable and aggressive as possible, while other, "saner", "more reasonable" voices will advocate for "lowest common denominator".
IMHO, when a few states have implemented carbon pricing -- especially if those states have a fair amount of economic clout -- that's when interesting bedfellows climb aboard the legislative train with their own agendas. For instance, oil companies that have recently stated an interest in carbon pricing (Shell, BP) may not be all that motivated right now to actually PUSH for national legislation. And why should they from their point of view? But once the states start fragmenting, I think there's going to be a push to "simplify" and "unify" at the national level so that companies don't have to deal with a fragmented set of laws. THEN the challenge will be to get the national legislation to be as favorable and aggressive as possible, while other, "saner", "more reasonable" voices will advocate for "lowest common denominator".
Sorry, cf&d
Carbon fee and dividend
looks like the ITC for solar has been extended, oil gets to export, but no carbon fee.
DNAinaGoodWay
Member
Last number I saw was 980, so should be over 1000 by now, still on track for 1300-1500 unless it catches fire somehow or you all double down.
McHoffa
CyberOwners
My 1 in 1300 chances aren't that great, but better than 1 in 2000, and definitely better than no chance at all!
Half Dollar Bill
Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant, innkeeper
Cross posted from the poetry thread. I didn't want to be the one to link it for fear of looking self-serving but with time running out and the holidays I thought it appropriate. Good luck to all and Happy Holidays!
’Twas the night before New Year’s, Alan’s near-Boston home,
EVery person was stirring, the drawing to come;
A raffle was held, the grand prize was a car
Tickets were sold, entries from near and from far.
Climate XChange the ultimate winner to be
Budget upgrade the need, hoping for lots of money;
Global warming is bad, something needs to be done
Market-based carbon pricing a goal, legislative victory to be won.
But back to the raffle for that brings us here
Current day miniature sleigh and eight tiny rein-deer;
The grand prize was a Tesla, the winner’s to spec and to load,
Delivered in just a few weeks, gracing your humble abode;
Maybe an X you desire, your garage to festoon
As Elon would say, it’ll be there, soon.
The best thing of all was no taxes to pay,
EVen installing the charger; Wow! Does that make your day!
Only one wins the car, that is to be sure
Other prizes make losing much easier to endure;
Electric bikes and room robots are really quite neat
Power tools for the yard make your work not a feat;
The cash raffle is gone, no equivalent prizes await,
For the cash raffle was something Alan did really quite hate.
The hour approached, the tension quite thick
This present came late from good ole St. Nick.
Stub-holders were snugged up their monitors to
In hopes that their number's the one that came through;
JenniferQ, Xenoilphobe, Kandiru and others bought many
Ryanjm, McHoffa, Geoffreak and Kf93 went with only one entry.
Hopefully two thousand tickets will EVentually will be sold
For campaigning and publicity are making Pollux quite old;
Wait just a few more weeks for this saga to end,
Winner’s notification Alan surely will send;
But first he’s sure to exclaim, his heart filled with cheer,
“May good luck be to all! Do it again next year?”
’Twas the night before New Year’s, Alan’s near-Boston home,
EVery person was stirring, the drawing to come;
A raffle was held, the grand prize was a car
Tickets were sold, entries from near and from far.
Climate XChange the ultimate winner to be
Budget upgrade the need, hoping for lots of money;
Global warming is bad, something needs to be done
Market-based carbon pricing a goal, legislative victory to be won.
But back to the raffle for that brings us here
Current day miniature sleigh and eight tiny rein-deer;
The grand prize was a Tesla, the winner’s to spec and to load,
Delivered in just a few weeks, gracing your humble abode;
Maybe an X you desire, your garage to festoon
As Elon would say, it’ll be there, soon.
The best thing of all was no taxes to pay,
EVen installing the charger; Wow! Does that make your day!
Only one wins the car, that is to be sure
Other prizes make losing much easier to endure;
Electric bikes and room robots are really quite neat
Power tools for the yard make your work not a feat;
The cash raffle is gone, no equivalent prizes await,
For the cash raffle was something Alan did really quite hate.
The hour approached, the tension quite thick
This present came late from good ole St. Nick.
Stub-holders were snugged up their monitors to
In hopes that their number's the one that came through;
JenniferQ, Xenoilphobe, Kandiru and others bought many
Ryanjm, McHoffa, Geoffreak and Kf93 went with only one entry.
Hopefully two thousand tickets will EVentually will be sold
For campaigning and publicity are making Pollux quite old;
Wait just a few more weeks for this saga to end,
Winner’s notification Alan surely will send;
But first he’s sure to exclaim, his heart filled with cheer,
“May good luck be to all! Do it again next year?”
Epic entertaining and informative post. Your family is lucky to have such intellect and patience in their midst, as evidenced multiple times in this Raffle alone.
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Also, #1264.
O. M. G.!!!!!!!!!
I love it!! Thank you!!! You can bet that we'll be sharing this poem throughout CXC -- OK, that makes CXC sound like a huge enterprise, it's really about a dozen people with a serious "we don't know what we can't do" attitude -- and onwards.
I've been involved with computers and business for a long time but this is absolutely the first time that anyone, anywhere, has viewed anything I've been involved with as poem-worthy.
By the way, I'm sure everyone realizes I did NOT do this alone. We've had a great web designer involved all along, and she also has done all the artwork, front and back end implementation, integration with the credit card payment infrastructure, plus a ton of advice about issues normally not thought of as being within a web designer's purview. She's a consultant who does both hourly and flat fee work and I would gladly recommend her to anyone who needs that kind of help. And then there's all the CXC folks who have worked hard on this, which wasn't originally supposed to be the case but Things Happened. I'm thrilled by the poem but just want to make sure that it's crystal clear that it wasn't me by myself.
That said... Wow... wow!
This baby is going up on a wall At Climate xcHange Omnipotent Opcenter (ACHOO)!!!!(*)
Alan
(*)Um, yeah, that's my wife's house. But I get to live there, too!
P.S. @HalfDollarBill, may I have permission to share this with some of the media types who have been writing about CXC? (With appropriate attribution/credit and/or pseudonymous attribution, depending on what you want?)
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Hi, @brianman,
You are kind to say so but if anyone's lucky in my family it's me!
And thank you for your support of the carbon pricing issue, and Climate XChange, and the raffle!
I love it!! Thank you!!! You can bet that we'll be sharing this poem throughout CXC -- OK, that makes CXC sound like a huge enterprise, it's really about a dozen people with a serious "we don't know what we can't do" attitude -- and onwards.
I've been involved with computers and business for a long time but this is absolutely the first time that anyone, anywhere, has viewed anything I've been involved with as poem-worthy.
By the way, I'm sure everyone realizes I did NOT do this alone. We've had a great web designer involved all along, and she also has done all the artwork, front and back end implementation, integration with the credit card payment infrastructure, plus a ton of advice about issues normally not thought of as being within a web designer's purview. She's a consultant who does both hourly and flat fee work and I would gladly recommend her to anyone who needs that kind of help. And then there's all the CXC folks who have worked hard on this, which wasn't originally supposed to be the case but Things Happened. I'm thrilled by the poem but just want to make sure that it's crystal clear that it wasn't me by myself.
That said... Wow... wow!
This baby is going up on a wall At Climate xcHange Omnipotent Opcenter (ACHOO)!!!!(*)
Alan
(*)Um, yeah, that's my wife's house. But I get to live there, too!
P.S. @HalfDollarBill, may I have permission to share this with some of the media types who have been writing about CXC? (With appropriate attribution/credit and/or pseudonymous attribution, depending on what you want?)
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Hi, @brianman,
You are kind to say so but if anyone's lucky in my family it's me!
And thank you for your support of the carbon pricing issue, and Climate XChange, and the raffle!
Epic entertaining and informative post. Your family is lucky to have such intellect and patience in their midst, as evidenced multiple times in this Raffle alone.
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Also, #1264.
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Half Dollar Bill
Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant, innkeeper
Please share as you see fit. AudubonB contributed to the effort. I didn't do it for credit, so my preference would be to say it's from the Tesla owners community. If you HAVE to stick a name on it, you have my info from being at the kick-off party. Hope you, the family and the cause have a great holiday!
Bill Hinko
Second Annual Tesla Raffle ideas . . .
I'm already planning for your raffle next year and wanted to forward a link to another raffle example. "Before Tesla" I was a strong BMW aficionado and remain a life member of their car club, the largest car club in the world I believe. They've been holding raffles for a very long time and it's how they fund most of the club's expenses AFAIK. Their formula keeps interest high by automatically adding cars, based on tickets sold. Unlike your brilliant idea, theirs is NOT a "no pain" raffle, but an interesting comparison/data point as you plan for your raffle next year. More details below, but here's a summary: 1:5000 odds per car, but the tickets are only $25 each (so I'd presume a purchase of $250 drops the odds to 1:500 or is this faulty math based on their raffle rules)?
They gave away nine cars (plus a partial award) earlier this year.
Raffle | BMW Car Club of America
https://www.bmwcca.org/sites/default/files/content/media/docs/Official%20COYD%202015%20Raffle%20Form.pdf
Again, I LOVE your raffle idea and think you're doing great work; this is just offered FYI and for planning your Second Annual Tesla Raffle. I wish continued success and an even larger budget as you succeed.
Keep up your fight for a better planet! We need more people doing what you do. I'm about to buy another set of tickets--already feeling pretty lucky with two Teslas in the garage, but we could always use a new one
I'm already planning for your raffle next year and wanted to forward a link to another raffle example. "Before Tesla" I was a strong BMW aficionado and remain a life member of their car club, the largest car club in the world I believe. They've been holding raffles for a very long time and it's how they fund most of the club's expenses AFAIK. Their formula keeps interest high by automatically adding cars, based on tickets sold. Unlike your brilliant idea, theirs is NOT a "no pain" raffle, but an interesting comparison/data point as you plan for your raffle next year. More details below, but here's a summary: 1:5000 odds per car, but the tickets are only $25 each (so I'd presume a purchase of $250 drops the odds to 1:500 or is this faulty math based on their raffle rules)?
They gave away nine cars (plus a partial award) earlier this year.
Raffle | BMW Car Club of America
https://www.bmwcca.org/sites/default/files/content/media/docs/Official%20COYD%202015%20Raffle%20Form.pdf
Again, I LOVE your raffle idea and think you're doing great work; this is just offered FYI and for planning your Second Annual Tesla Raffle. I wish continued success and an even larger budget as you succeed.
Keep up your fight for a better planet! We need more people doing what you do. I'm about to buy another set of tickets--already feeling pretty lucky with two Teslas in the garage, but we could always use a new one
Dear HalfDollarBill and AudubonB,
This is Jessica Langerman, Alan Langerman's wife, wishing you both the happiest of happy Christmases - or, if, like my husband, you don't celebrate Christmas, the happiest of December 25ths.
After getting up early with the kids to open presents, cook breakfast, etc., I decided to catch an hour's sleep, but Alan caught me on my way and said, "You must hear this." He then began to read your incredible poem, but couldn't get all the way through it without choking up. I myself was already wiping tears from my eyes and made him show me how to be able to respond to you personally on this forum.
That you would do something so kind and so clever just touches us both to the quick. You know - I can see - how hard Alan has worked on this raffle. He is not as emotionally devastated by the impacts of climate change as I am, but, seeing my own fury and sense of helplessness, created this raffle as a labor of love for me. He has worked night and day to make this the fairest, most transparent, fabulous raffle imaginable, benefitting what I believe to be the single most powerful thing we can do to combat global warming, and you obviously appreciate his efforts as much as I do. I am tickled to death by what you wrote, and we are going to print it out and give it pride of place on New Year's Eve. I can't thank you enough for making us both feel so very good in this humorous, wonderful way. We are really awed by your imaginativeness. You are the best. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.
xo
This is Jessica Langerman, Alan Langerman's wife, wishing you both the happiest of happy Christmases - or, if, like my husband, you don't celebrate Christmas, the happiest of December 25ths.
After getting up early with the kids to open presents, cook breakfast, etc., I decided to catch an hour's sleep, but Alan caught me on my way and said, "You must hear this." He then began to read your incredible poem, but couldn't get all the way through it without choking up. I myself was already wiping tears from my eyes and made him show me how to be able to respond to you personally on this forum.
That you would do something so kind and so clever just touches us both to the quick. You know - I can see - how hard Alan has worked on this raffle. He is not as emotionally devastated by the impacts of climate change as I am, but, seeing my own fury and sense of helplessness, created this raffle as a labor of love for me. He has worked night and day to make this the fairest, most transparent, fabulous raffle imaginable, benefitting what I believe to be the single most powerful thing we can do to combat global warming, and you obviously appreciate his efforts as much as I do. I am tickled to death by what you wrote, and we are going to print it out and give it pride of place on New Year's Eve. I can't thank you enough for making us both feel so very good in this humorous, wonderful way. We are really awed by your imaginativeness. You are the best. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.
xo
Hi, @TSLA Pilot,
It took a while, but I got my keyboard back from my wife.
Please keep these ideas and references coming! I'm way too deep into the current raffle to even consider the possibility that there might be another in the future. It's a terrifying thought.
And thank you for your kind words about our efforts on the carbon emissions front. That's all down to my better half. Whenever I go to speak with great tact and diplomacy, they have to send a cleanup crew in right behind me. :-(
It took a while, but I got my keyboard back from my wife.
Please keep these ideas and references coming! I'm way too deep into the current raffle to even consider the possibility that there might be another in the future. It's a terrifying thought.
And thank you for your kind words about our efforts on the carbon emissions front. That's all down to my better half. Whenever I go to speak with great tact and diplomacy, they have to send a cleanup crew in right behind me. :-(
Second Annual Tesla Raffle ideas . . .
I'm already planning for your raffle next year and wanted to forward a link to another raffle example. "Before Tesla" I was a strong BMW aficionado and remain a life member of their car club, the largest car club in the world I believe. They've been holding raffles for a very long time and it's how they fund most of the club's expenses AFAIK. Their formula keeps interest high by automatically adding cars, based on tickets sold. Unlike your brilliant idea, theirs is NOT a "no pain" raffle, but an interesting comparison/data point as you plan for your raffle next year. More details below, but here's a summary: 1:5000 odds per car, but the tickets are only $25 each (so I'd presume a purchase of $250 drops the odds to 1:500 or is this faulty math based on their raffle rules)?
They gave away nine cars (plus a partial award) earlier this year.
Raffle | BMW Car Club of America
https://www.bmwcca.org/sites/default/files/content/media/docs/Official COYD 2015 Raffle Form.pdf
Again, I LOVE your raffle idea and think you're doing great work; this is just offered FYI and for planning your Second Annual Tesla Raffle. I wish continued success and an even larger budget as you succeed.
Keep up your fight for a better planet! We need more people doing what you do. I'm about to buy another set of tickets--already feeling pretty lucky with two Teslas in the garage, but we could always use a new one
CTShore
Member
DNAinaGoodWay
Member
Hi, @TSLA Pilot,
It took a while, but I got my keyboard back from my wife.
Please keep these ideas and references coming! I'm way too deep into the current raffle to even consider the possibility that there might be another in the future. It's a terrifying thought.
And thank you for your kind words about our efforts on the carbon emissions front. That's all down to my better half. Whenever I go to speak with great tact and diplomacy, they have to send a cleanup crew in right behind me. :-(
You've come a long way. You dove in, you've worked hard, and you've learned a lot along the way. You've gone from a complete raffle novice, to a rapidly solidifying base of raffle knowledge. The acquisition of this specialized knowledge will make your future raffles easier. It would be a shame to not utilize it to raise awareness of such a cause. Plus, as fundraisers go, a raffle is much more agreeable than a boring ask. It's exciting, inspiring voluntary assistance, and . . . poetry.
