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Toyota working on Solid State Batteries

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by AMPd, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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  2. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    This was an interesting read, but when Toyta (anti-EV) are saying "something will come in 2020" my answer is "you will be 5 years late". In fact, they are already missing the train as it's starting to leave the station.

    With regards to the 1000 mile range I disagree - it's not needed. The more experience I get with EV's and the more I learn about it I've come to understand that batteries are really the only obstacle to EV dominance - all the other techonologies are mature and in most cases superior to ICE's (drivetrain, regenerative braking, technological features are easier implemented, space, stiffnes of the chassis, weight distribution etc. etc). Take the current Model S as a starting point. The 85kWh battery gives you 200 miles of real-world driving at higher speeds, with heating in the winter etc. In my opinion this range x 2,5 (500 miles) is enough for anyone as long as you have supercharging capabilities (I'm assuming here that the SC can just be scaled up so that you can still charge this new larger battery from 25-75% SOC in 30 minutes). Then add another 30% so that they can do away with Range mode charging and is essence make the battery work within a tighter voltage range (the definied voltage limits for 0% SOC and 100% SOC) so that degradation is even further reduced and viola -you have an EV that no ICE can match. That would require a battery with a working energy storage capability of around 275kWh. Now, if you could also make that battery lighter it could be smaller for the same range. I do understand that for other applications, such as goods transport etc. we'd need even more evolved batteries.
     
  3. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    I agree with your post Johan, toyota is anti ev and when they say 2020 they surely will be late
    and in regards to the 1000 mile range, although its not needed, I'd still love one :)

    It will also quiet the RANGE anxiety folks

    Although some might still complain about only getting 950 miles lol

    On a serious note, this is good news, if Toyota won't do it I'm glad we have Tesla that can
     
  4. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    No! Toyota is talking about power density, not specific energy AKA gravimetric density. QUOTE: "solid-state batteries that are three-to-four times more powerful".

    And that what solid state chemistries are known for - a high power density. They might be able to have higher specific energy if those future batteries would be based on more advanced chemistries, like lithium sulfur, aluminum ion, magnesium ion, sodium ion etc. But for now most solid state research are revolving around lithium ion.
     
  5. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    Oh
    im not an expert so I didnt know what they meant, I assumed it would be able to store 3-4 times more energy. I was wrong
    either way if the batteries can store more energy in a lighter pack then that's a step forward
     
  6. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    Basic msg that Toyota is spreading around - current li-ion tech is no good, do not buy EV, wait 8 to 10 years there would be better batteries...

    They promised sodium-ion.
    Then they promised magnesium-ion .
    Now solid state... And that just what I noticed in last half a year or so...

    And multivalent chemistries could bring 3x-5x gravimetric energy density improvements... But it is not like Toyota only one who working on them. And most likely they invest in research much less then Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung SDI. But they make more noise - Toyota not interested in EV popularization, they want their already successful hybrids to keep top "green" spot in public perception....
     
  7. StephenM

    StephenM Active Member

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    If this is true, than we could possibly see parallels between Sony/Apple and Toyota/Tesla. Continue to innovate or get left behind.
     

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