This is almost like saying that EV folks (not only the purists) are too stubborn to even consider buying anything else.
The above argument assumes that EVs are not capable of long trips at all. While it is quite true for the Leaf given the lack of DC infrastructure and its limited range, it is not true for the Model S, which, as you know, already accepts reservations that are of value to Tesla. Buyers will indeed be able to choose between Volt, Converj, and Model S, and will be weighing gas-charging against the possibility of DC fast charging in many cases, even if not in all.
So to me the above analysis is not only wrong, but also trashing "purists".
I wasn’t “trashing” purists, only explaining why from my perspective, the sentiment may backfire in ways they don’t intend. I didn’t say that it’s not worth educating a PHEV intender about EVs, or that it’s impossible to convert someone. But I also hear PHEVs talked about in ways that suggest that if you’re not going to get an EV, you might as well not bother- the implied point Nissan made by using the Volt in their ad.
I also agree that we’ll have more flexibility when there are more options of both EVs and PHEVs. But I was speaking to the current product offerings, and about people who are in the market now.
And yes, a lot of consumers of all types are stubborn.
For someone with a short commute, who thinks they may need a Volt or Ampera because they sometimes need to drive further, have they fully considered the alternative of using a rental car when they need to leave town?
Obviously there are a lot of variables in here, such as frequency and length of longer trips. If it’s 2 or 3 long road trips per year, the rental makes more sense. If it’s mostly commuting but a 150-mile trip every week or two, the inconvenience factor starts to weigh in.
At the same time, it’s not been my experience that EV buyers start with having one as their only car, at least not those in the ~100 mile category. Many end up that way, but most keep at least one gas car around for a while. They’re not dragging it around all the time, but I don’t think the reasoning is all that different. There’s educational opportunities with both groups.
I’ve talked to several companies about offering some number of rental coupons with the EV, or a car sharing membership. It may not be a huge financial incentive, but psychologically it helps link the idea that choosing an EV does not mean you can never go further, or that buying a small EV means you can never use a big car on the one day you need it. (And I know that infrastructure can facilitate some longer trips, but this “fear” isn’t necessarily based on logic.)
So, I gather evchels is being the voice of a larger group who sees this as an interesting thread, but isn't willing or able to chime in themselves... (?)
Not at all. Am speaking only for myself on this forum. I simply mentioned the sentiment I got in email form because it happened to be pertinent to the conversation at that moment.
As much as evchels does a great job being both a semi-insider as well as being a "voice of the regular folk" there does come across a slight bit of condescension which I assume comes from knowing a lot more about what is really happening behind the scenes that us "amateurs" can only speculate about. Tough gig.
I’ve never meant to sound condescending, especially since I’m never one of the sharpest tacks in any group of EV fans.
And I don’t assume I know much more of anything behind the scenes than anyone here. There are lots of people who are better connected than I am.
However, I have perceived (perhaps mistakenly) something of a double-standard in the suggestion that because I have a different pov than some here, mine is based in whatever part on kool-aid or bias, while theirs is just a valid opinion. That because I worked for a company nearly twenty years ago and left ten years ago, I am inherently compromised, even today. I also read back in the thread when I first got here and saw where I was referred to as “GM’s unpaid marketing staff” simply for liking the Volt, and PIA was called out because I was not adequately supportive of a long-distance EV road trip, enough that even PIA felt the need to clarify that they can't be held responsible for what I say. One of the first questions I answered was “Does Chelsea really not understand why GM got such criticism for claiming to build an EV that was actually a plug in hybrid?” As if I’m just too dense, or my glasses too rosy to see what everyone else obviously can. And so on. But heck, if I'm gonna be a shill even without working for them, I'm starting to think I oughtta send those boys a bill for my marketing efforts.
I initially took it as a good sport and tried to play along, even teasing back. But especially over the last several days as the same company has been trying to publicly discredit me elsewhere, I’m sure more weariness of the attitude bled through than I intended.
I have to admit I've sensed a bit of what I'd consider oversensitivity from you in this discussion which surprises me considering how long you've been in this game. Earlier you mentioned shots being taken at you before you joined the discussion, yet I couldn't find any. :
I apologize. It struck me as nit-picky at the time that someone would go track down the exact date I first used a word, then use it to correct me on a point I wasn’t trying to make. And I have a sarcastic streak that occasionally take over the mic in those circumstances, referencing the earlier kool-aid bit.
And in general, what I have said has been misunderstood more times in the course of this thread than any other forum I’ve participated in, so I
have started to feel like I have to be really, really careful, lest something come across that wasn’t intended.
Yeah, I thought same. I was tempted to say "don't take is so personally", but thought that wouldn't help.
I was pondering various things like:
- More vested interest in this topic... More 'skin in the game', so to speak.
- Longer history in this area - should have some laurels and respect to rest upon, but us 'know it alls' question everything.
- Unlike most of us, views this whole topic as tired rehash since it has already been discussed among insiders before we started blabbing about it.
- Wishing some associates would step in and help state the points and counterpoints, but stuck "bearing the torch" single-handedly.
Nah, none of the above. I wouldn’t say that I have any more skin in the game than anyone here. We all want the same basic goal, and if you guys didn’t have as much passion as I do, we wouldn’t disagree. Don’t expect any particular credit or respect for experience, and I wouldn’t have jumped in if I wanted to avoid questions. Don’t see any of this as rehashing even if some has occurred elsewhere (though not nearly enough of this type of conversation occurs among the industry folk either.) And I’ve promoted hashing, as I’ve asked several times for suggestions on how these vehicles might better be discussed. But I do give as good as I get- don't mind being challenged, disagreed with, teased, or sarcasm, etc.- as long as you guys don't mind expecting the same in return.
And as the Friday post re AB475 probably showed, I’m accustomed to being a solo act.
Think I’ve hit the high points of the last few days; let me know if I missed anything...
