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Trying to understand supercharger location: Jeju

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by KarenRei, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    I was browsing the supercharger network map today and am now scratching my head trying to figure out this supercharger plan.

    Location: Jeju
    Longest driving distance between two points possible on the island: ~60mi (distance between the two major cities = ~30mi)
    Population: 621k
    Country: South Korea (presently under threat of nuclear war)
    Power mix: 2/3rds fossil fuels
    GDP per capita: $35k (around #30 in the world)
    Gas price: $4,79/gal (fairly average globally)

    What exactly is the point of a supercharger on an island where the longest driving distance between points is 60 miles? Who is it supposed to serve? Taxis? I understand that Jeju is the leading place in South Korea for EV adoption, but that's specifically because they don't need to drive long distances.

    I thought the planned supercharger on Oahu was weird. At least it has 50% more population and a huge tourism industry...
     
  2. swaltner

    swaltner Member

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    Simple, it's for people that don't have a way to charge at home overnight.
     
  3. azred

    azred Member

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    Since Tesla announced a few months ago that they were adding Superchargers for commuters in urban areas, the Superchargers you mentioned make sense to me. It looks like Jeju has double the population of Iceland, for example, though in a small geographic area. Jealous?
     
  4. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    IT's pretty obvious once you learn about Jeju. As with quite a few such locations it seems strange until one understands. Jeju is an enormous tourist destination, and actually Seoul-Jeju is one of the most heavily travelled air routes in the world.
    The car ferry is quite popular too, just under five hours of a delightful trip:
    Official Site of Korea Tourism Org.: VisitKorea - Transportation - Ferries - Ferry to Jeju
    Locating a Supercharger here is very obvious,actually, because the type of people who will buy Tesla will like to travel by car, and will often take such trips. Further the domestic Jeju market is prosperous and growing.

    I am not an expert on Korea.I have been there numerous times and I did work there for a year and have travelled throughout the country. Korean residents among us will know far more than do I.
     
  5. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    #5 KarenRei, Aug 13, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    Double the population (and double the tourists), but with no apparent need for it. Traveling around Iceland is around 830 miles just on the ring road, not counting the side peninsulas. The longest drive between two points in Iceland is 565 miles (involving mountain passes, long wet winters, etc), versus around 65 miles along easy coastline roads on Jeju (and that's on the long axis). There's actually a need for supercharging here. Is the idea that more than half of people in Jeju (to account for having double the population and tourists) plan to do their daily charging with superchargers?

    I often get the impression that Tesla's algorithm for determining where to put superchargers is solely based on the present density of EVs in the area, without any consideration of the reason why there may be that number (aka, whether they can already get to where they're going without the need for superchargers). Which amplifies chicken-and-egg problems.

    * Already an easy place to drive for EVs? Let's build a supercharger to boost EV sales by the small percentage of people who didn't already find it an easy place to drive without having one!
    * A difficult place to drive EVs (but with demonstrably high EV interest and extremely aggressive electrification targets), which would become an easy place with a supercharger? Sorry, you don't have enough EVs.

    That they're doing it on Oahu is bad enough. But Jeju? :Þ
     
    • Disagree x 1
  6. jbcarioca

    jbcarioca Active Member

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    You've pointed out your view countless times and many of us have discussed how to go about influencing change.
    Bluntly, if you don't understand why Korea and why Jeju you'll have a hard time understanding charger demand.
    I want to be polite in pointing out just how important Jeju is. I presume we don't need to explain why Korea is important.
     
  7. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    #7 KarenRei, Aug 13, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    Everything comes down to numbers. Talk up Jeju's tourism numbers you want - they're only double ours. Their population is only double ours. But they have a tiny island with little need for a supercharger. Nothing changes that fact. As many people go to Liberty Island to see the Statue of Liberty every year as go to Jeju. Does that mean that there should be a supercharger on Liberty Island? Area seriously matters.

    And as for saying "Korea is important", that should be reflected in Korea's total number of superchargers, service centres and stores. That doesn't change Jeju's numbers. Most notably, its tiny size relative to Tesla ranges.

    As for influencing change - apart from encouraging more Tesla sales, good luck with that. Everyone I've spoken with who has broached the subject with Tesla has been met with the response, "we'll come when there's more Tesla sales there". Back straight up to my previous statement about their algorithm amplifying chicken-and-egg problems:

    * Already an easy place to drive for EVs? Let's build a supercharger to boost EV sales by the small percentage of people who didn't already find it an easy place to drive without having one!

    * A difficult place to drive EVs (but with demonstrably high EV interest and extremely aggressive electrification targets), which would become an easy place with a supercharger? Sorry, you don't have enough EVs.
     

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