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Universal Basic Income (UBI) is coming

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There are always going to be winners and losers in life.
Timing usually has a lot to do with it.

UBI just feels like another version of, everybody gets a trophy.
I hate it.

UBI doesn't change the winners and losers. And the losers don't get a trophy, they all get consolation prizes. Assuming that robots and AI get to the point where they can do most the work, what's wrong with that?

But if someone wants a beachfront house? They'll still have to work for it, because robots aren't making any more beachfront. Or maybe they can... pound sand may mean something entirely different in 2050.
 
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UBI doesn't change the winners and losers. And the losers don't get a trophy, they all get consolation prizes. Assuming that robots and AI get to the point where they can do most the work, what's wrong with that?

But if someone wants a beachfront house? They'll still have to work for it, because robots aren't making any more beachfront. Or maybe they can... pound sand may mean something entirely different in 2050.
Again, all ideas, no details. That's what's wrong with it.
At least I'm offering actionable solutions.
 
UBI doesn't change the winners and losers. And the losers don't get a trophy, they all get consolation prizes. Assuming that robots and AI get to the point where they can do most the work, what's wrong with that?

But if someone wants a beachfront house? They'll still have to work for it, because robots aren't making any more beachfront. Or maybe they can... pound sand may mean something entirely different in 2050.
If we get ASI, smart robots on earth, space mining and factories in space, build a dyson sphere etc we will have insane amounts of energy and plenty of matter and can transform the universe into plenty of beach front spaces like this:
1717219242531.png


That is, if we survive.
 
You can call it the "Everyone gets rich" dividend. It doesn't matter what you call it, it's a terrible idea, that no one has even remotely explained how it would work on a national scale. Yang has "ideas". I'm skeptical of his "plans" behind them.

"where income doesn't start at zero" - So what does that look like?
We already have a "minimum wage" in this country. It's a joke, and hasn't really been a living wage in a long time, but UBI doesn't fix that. It would actually eliminate the minimum wage. Employers would only want to pay a certain amount above UBI.
So how much are you talking about giving every single adult in the country? Less than the min wage? More than?
Who pays for that? How is that even fiscally/financially possible? No one has those answers, because it can't be done at scale!
The government cannot just continue to create more fiat out of thin air to pay for whatever they want! That's why we're in this trouble in the first place.

Everyone seems to fall in love with the idea of free money, I mean UBI, but no one will talk about the unintended consequences of a UBI:
- No incentive to work: You set the amount too low, it's no different than welfare and min wage. You set it too high, many just choose to not work at all.
- Very likely only disbursed via CBDC ("implementation & automatic electronic transfer"), which myself and many others have already explained to be digital slavery.
- Elimination/drastic cuts to all social programs: Because those funds would need to go to paying the UBI, but for those in need of those services, they are above and beyond just a living wage. Not to mention even more jobs lost when those services shut down.
And many more too numerous to list.

Yes, every innovation in history has meant some jobs were lost. But it also meant other jobs were created.
- Candlemakers were drastically reduced when electricity was developed. They found other jobs.
- Horse ranchers were dramatically affected when the automobile was invented. They pivoted to cattle.
- Long distance phone carriers, the USPS, bookstores, Mom & Pop's of all kinds, and many other industries were greatly impacted by the introduction of the internet.
And the list goes on and on... My point being, AI and robotics are absolutely going to greatly impact many, many industries. But civilization, as a whole, will do what it's always done, and evolve, adapt, and continue on. Those that can't, fall.
That's true in nature and capitalism. The smartest, strongest, survive.

"The bottom line is that a lot of people in this country are very poor and lack skill or sometimes even basic education."
Exactly! We agree on that completely. We're just different in how we would fix that.
You want to gov subsidize the symptoms of the problem with UBI. I want to go to the source and fix it.

For example, we have a severe lack of skilled labor in this country. We need more electricians, plumbers, carpenters, masons, etc...
This country has focused so hard for decades on going to college, getting a degree, and shaming anyone who doesn't have that (many times unused) piece of paper. So much so, that the skilled workmen we do still have are quickly reaching retirement age, and there aren't hardly any apprentices to take their place.
But because our broken education system doesn't encourage anyone to go to trade schools anymore, we're in this situation. *
The university system is a for-profit business, and the more the government subsidizes and pays for student loans, the higher and higher tuition rates will go. The government is the problem.
And that's just one example of other jobs, that are in high demand, and pay very well, that many people could do if AI/robotics costs them theirs. Sure, there's an aging generation that this transition will be harder on.
Not to sound harsh, but that's just Darwinian progress.
We've been devolving as a society for decades now. Technology is outpacing our brain's ability to evolve, and this is what we get for it.
And tech isn't slowing down, so we sure as hell better speed up!

You're just accepting a society of poor, less skilled/educated and want to throw money at the current symptoms. I don't accept that.
I have a longer-term solution. I want to help those people, all people, help themselves by exiting the system that is rigged to hold them down. Show/teach them a better way. A way that they can actually start to improve their own situations individually. And that has to start at the source of the problem, the government's control and manipulation of the money. Every single one of the superficial issues are all rooted in that.
Fix the money, fix the world.
Educate the public about what is money, and how it works. That's not taught in US schools, because the gov doesn't want us to know what they're doing. So we have to take it upon ourselves to search for that knowledge.
That's the single biggest thing I've benefitted from when learning about Bitcoin. I dove into what is money, and for the first time in my life, realized how rigged the system was. Not broken, rigged. It's working exactly the way they (gov) want it to. And it's impossible to try and change that system from within. Many have tried and failed.
The only answer was to exit that system. But before Bitcoin existed, there was no such exit. And that's the way the gov wants to keep it. So they'll try every way possible to remove any exits. It's why they're so against it. They can't control, duplicate, or manipulate Bitcoin in their rigged system. (Whether you're for or against BTC, I still encourage everyone to research what is money, educate themselves, and make their own decisions.)

You want a UBI, because you don't want to deal with your own problems. Just give all your rights and freedoms to the gov. They'll handle them, tell me what to do. I'll own nothing, and like it. Zero accountability. That's a Keynesian economist's answer to everything.

That's NOT what our founding fathers wanted! They fought to give those rights and freedoms TO THE PEOPLE.
Not to become the hierarchy they were fighting against! They were true Libertarians! **

No thanks. Give me back my rights and freedoms, as the founding fathers wanted.
If I mess up, I clean it up myself. We don't take bailouts.

*I wish the current education system would teach what matters, but since the Industrial Age, all it's done is spit out brainwashed drone employees.
Do you ever wonder why so many self-made millionaires/billionaires dropped out of school at some level? It's because they saw what they wanted to do, and school wasn't helping them get to that. Now I'm all for education, not saying everyone should just drop out. But I'm for education reform first. Not enough people are willing to leave their comfy personal surroundings to learn something new, especially if it's uncomfortable, or takes a little work.
** The titles of Republican and Democrat came later, and were really just variations of Libertarian values, just differing ways to go about it. They've been morphed into something that's completely lost their original meaning.

Anyway, sorry, I get off on tangents.

I would recommend this book. I went in as an extreme skeptic, but he told the idea
https://www.amazon.com/Utopia-Reali...1717226616&sprefix=utopia+for+,aps,153&sr=8-1

No details because AI and robots aren't able to do most the work yet. Action will be taken only when they displace enough humans from their jobs.

Considering the sort of resistance to anything that might make life easier for anyone else in the US, I don't think anything will be done until it's way too late. I'm not convinced that AI is going to get to the levels necessary to replace human jobs. Elon has been predicting robo-taxis right around the corner for more than 10 years. Progress has been made, but we're not there yet.

But say it does happen. As AI takes over, it will result in mass unemployment. The fat cats who are making a lot of money from this tech will be perfectly happy to keep all the rewards from an AI economy and will resist with up to 1% of their wealth (which will be staggering amounts of money) to stop anything like UBI. They will make sure their media outlets do everything possible to turn the now unemployed on each other rather than them.

Parts of the developed world could turn into third world hell holes with 90% of the population living a subsistence existence while a small number of staggeringly wealthy live it up with a small middle class doing the few jobs left the AI aren't doing.

I would say that there is a good chance that if AI take over to the extent people think it will, that will be the outcome.
 
Parts of the developed world could turn into third world hell holes with 90% of the population living a subsistence existence while a small number of staggeringly wealthy live it up with a small middle class doing the few jobs left the AI aren't doing.

I would say that there is a good chance that if AI take over to the extent people think it will, that will be the outcome.
May I reccommend Richard K Morgan's "Altered Carbon" series of novels and perhaps the Neflix video version perhaps for one instance
 
Imo negative income tax > UBI.

Other than just straight welfare payments, Medicaid, child tax credits, etc… we have many of these items already in place today. Things like the EITC (earned income tax credit) which IS refundable, but does rely on the earner having income, generally at about up to 150% of the federal poverty level. Certainly it’s not much more than ~ $800 a year for a low earning INDIVIDUAL, but can be as high as ~ $3500 a year for a family of four with today incomes ~ 35K.

Add to that the “savers credit” for that sort of income bracket or even higher, where IF one puts money into a defined contribution plan the IRS/Federal Govt will add to and match the contribution up to $1000 in TAX credit ($2000 MFJ) Again, these are levels just a barely above the federal poverty levels, but still it’s money in their pocket in the form of a TAX CREDIT. Many can’t claim since they don’t HAVE $1000 or $1000 in INCOME TAX impact in any given year. In 2027 the IRS will required that this credit will be simply added to the retirement account, which is better.

But the EITC puts an annual amount out there for low wage earners that is money out, vs. tax reduction. in 2022 that amounted to just north of $60B in payments to american citizens. For the overwhelming part not federal income tax payers.

That also doesn’t include many states that have similar programs, not only to NOT TAX the “income” from the EITC, but also to match it in some ways.