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Universal Basic Income (UBI) is coming

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I'm not sure your stance but I don't agree with that tweets reasoning. The fact he uses the word parasite to refer to people who would be supported by this system shows his position and level of respect to others.

Sources -


or


or more general points -

We have to hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time. UBI is wrong today but right tomorrow.

It would cause inflation today (despite your articles saying there is "no evidence"..). Our individual nations are all in a war against all other nations in productivity etc. We know this in the UK where we import much of our food.

UBI now means less productivity as people (like me) who now don't need to work start retiring early. UBI is inevitable but must be phased in slowly and at the last minute (yes that is contradictory but not impossible). China as an example will work people alongside a robot with 5x the human productivity. Compete with that and a nation will be able to afford another robot. Don't compete and something will break.

My monthly UBI would be something like:
  • 2025 - $50 to establish infrastructure
  • 2027 (Robotaxis) - $200 to start testing inflation affects and how to control it (only if most nations follow suit)
  • 2030 (robots becoming common in Western world)- $1000 - halve all benefits and limit to 30 hour week
  • 2035 (90% goods manufactured by robots)- $2000 - zero benefits, 20 hour week
  • 2040 (90% services provided by robots)- $4000 - working is rare but most items are very cheap
  • 2045 - $8000 - universal high income. $8000/month would be sufficient to live on your own super yacht
 
Community Noted. Clickbate for attention.

It's like Mainstream Media - comments more useful and accurate than articles, certainly headlines

Canada is not implementing a Universal Basic Income (UBI). One Senator and one MP have bills that instruct the Finance Minister to develop a framework/report on UBI. Neither bill mentions a specific dollar amount nor directly implements UBI.Senate Bill: parl.ca/DocumentViewer…House Bill: parl.ca/DocumentViewer…
 
So. Many. Problems.
First, where is the money coming from? The governments? Where are they getting it? They're all already going more and more in debt right now!
It would be immediate hyper-inflation. The governments would have to create record amounts of fiat! They're already doing it now, but they aren't using nearly the capital that UBI would require.
Are you eliminating all other forms of public/gov assistance programs to pay for UBI? That would mean privatizing everything. Can't even start to imagine those ramifications.
Everyone gets the same amount, no matter what their jobs are? Sounds a lot like Communism to me. Which has never worked at scale.
Governments will only use UBI for one reason, control. They're roll out their UBI via a CBDC. It's digital slavery.

AI is barely at the replication phase. That's all it can do, replicate, copy. It just happens to have access to all the internet's data, so it can copy/combine lots of things faster than humans can. But none of it is solely original. AI is not a threat. The people writing the code are the threat.

Does no one have any sense of history anymore?
All of these same arguments were made about past technological breakthroughs. Like when the cotton gin, printing press, steam engine, internal combustion engine, the computer, microprocessor, the internet, were all invented. And what happened? Sure some specific jobs were eliminated, but guess what. Those people found other jobs, and younger people just took those type of jobs off of their list of potential employment options.
Robotics isn't new. It's been eliminating jobs for 50 yrs? So technology is going to keep doing what technology does, advance.
The robots get more sophisticated. The tasks they can do get more complicated.
The reality is, while a few smart minds and innovative companies continue to evolve robotic hardware and software, we as human beings, are actually devolving as a whole (Darwin must be rolling). Our minds can't keep up with the tech advancements. That's the scary part. There are developers that are certainly very smart for a human. But they're trying to write code or build machines, that not even they fully understand from a future consequences perspective.

The dinosaurs reigned for 10's of thousands of years, and would very much likely still be today if not for a massive cosmic event.
But just looking at what humans have done in the past 5 hundred years, at the rate in which we're going, exponentially outpacing our own evolution, we probably won't even survive 5 hundred years from now.
We're burning the candle at both ends when it comes to living on this planet.

Funny how science fiction can become reality. I am all too often reminded of the movie Wall-E.
Humans have made Earth uninhabitable. They build a big space ship where everyone has all that they need (sound familiar, UBI), and slowly, generation by generation, they just become fatter, weaker, useless, unproductive, disconnected from each other, isolated, for all intents and purposes already extinct. That's exactly what we're doing.
Except, unlike the movie which uses love as a way back, our species is so divided that we can't recover in time to save ourselves.
Sorry to be so bleak and blunt, but it's true. Our reign on Earth is nearing an end. And Earth will recover, and I guess the next dynasty to reign will be the rest of the mammals, which I can see lasting far longer than we did.

Tax on exclusive usage of finite resources (common good). The rate can be varied especially at the higher end as some people will compete in daft ways.
  1. Land (especially coast, river) - economic/rental value, zoning
  2. Air quality - polluters pay
  3. Fishing
  4. Radio spectrum
There are huge parts of Scotland and other parts of the UK that are virtually untaxed as they're classed as agricultural when in actual fact they are for recreation (shooting estates) and inheritance tax avoidance.

MacArthur's land reforms arguably helped Japan hugely. I wonder if Land Value Tax (LVT) would help us all. Often the rich have the land and the power. LVT helps turn hoarding (even radio spectrum) into productive endeavour.

Robots need land, owners can pay for zoned land rights. People can receive their share of the common goods.
 
We have to hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time. UBI is wrong today but right tomorrow.

It would cause inflation today (despite your articles saying there is "no evidence"..). Our individual nations are all in a war against all other nations in productivity etc. We know this in the UK where we import much of our food.

UBI now means less productivity as people (like me) who now don't need to work start retiring early. UBI is inevitable but must be phased in slowly and at the last minute (yes that is contradictory but not impossible). China as an example will work people alongside a robot with 5x the human productivity. Compete with that and a nation will be able to afford another robot. Don't compete and something will break.

My monthly UBI would be something like:
  • 2025 - $50 to establish infrastructure
  • 2027 (Robotaxis) - $200 to start testing inflation affects and how to control it (only if most nations follow suit)
  • 2030 (robots becoming common in Western world)- $1000 - halve all benefits and limit to 30 hour week
  • 2035 (90% goods manufactured by robots)- $2000 - zero benefits, 20 hour week
  • 2040 (90% services provided by robots)- $4000 - working is rare but most items are very cheap
    • 2045 - $8000 - universal high income. $8000/month would be sufficient to live on your own super yach

We have to hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time. UBI is wrong today but right tomorrow.

It would cause inflation today (despite your articles saying there is "no evidence"..). Our individual nations are all in a war against all other nations in productivity etc. We know this in the UK where we import much of our food.

UBI now means less productivity as people (like me) who now don't need to work start retiring early. UBI is inevitable but must be phased in slowly and at the last minute (yes that is contradictory but not impossible). China as an example will work people alongside a robot with 5x the human productivity. Compete with that and a nation will be able to afford another robot. Don't compete and something will break.

My monthly UBI would be something like:
  • 2025 - $50 to establish infrastructure
  • 2027 (Robotaxis) - $200 to start testing inflation affects and how to control it (only if most nations follow suit)
  • 2030 (robots becoming common in Western world)- $1000 - halve all benefits and limit to 30 hour week
  • 2035 (90% goods manufactured by robots)- $2000 - zero benefits, 20 hour week
  • 2040 (90% services provided by robots)- $4000 - working is rare but most items are very cheap
  • 2045 - $8000 - universal high income. $8000/month would be sufficient to live on your own super yacht

Where is the money coming from? The source makes ALL the difference.
All you're doing with this plan is allowing time for govs to print massive amounts of money over a longer period of time (already doing it at a smaller scale). Which debases whatever currency is at the source.
Your 2027 "testing inflation affects" is exactly where this little UBI experiment would die.
Because if it actually got to your 2045, $8000 wouldn't buy a loaf of bread! Hyperinflation would see to that.
All you have to do is look around the world at some of the examples of countries now with hyperinflation.
You think 1st world countries are immune? No way!

The US has a failing social security system that the gov has ruined. And that's just for people who've supposedly worked the majority of their lives, been told they're paying into a system that will pay them when they retire. The US gov has stolen from it basically since it's inception, and just prints more money to inflate the money that it puts back.
And you think a system, run by a government, that is suppose to pay ALL citizens, not just those past their productive working age, is going to work out positively? You're delusional.
 
Where is the money coming from? The source makes ALL the difference.
All you're doing with this plan is allowing time for govs to print massive amounts of money over a longer period of time (already doing it at a smaller scale). Which debases whatever currency is at the source.
Your 2027 "testing inflation affects" is exactly where this little UBI experiment would die.
Because if it actually got to your 2045, $8000 wouldn't buy a loaf of bread! Hyperinflation would see to that.
All you have to do is look around the world at some of the examples of countries now with hyperinflation.
You think 1st world countries are immune? No way!

The US has a failing social security system that the gov has ruined. And that's just for people who've supposedly worked the majority of their lives, been told they're paying into a system that will pay them when they retire. The US gov has stolen from it basically since it's inception, and just prints more money to inflate the money that it puts back.
And you think a system, run by a government, that is suppose to pay ALL citizens, not just those past their productive working age, is going to work out positively? You're delusional.
Tax corporations more. Any business with customers will be a goldmine in the future where bots make everything for ~$0.

Inflation won't be a problem in that world. Deflation is the real concern.

Do you have an alternate plan?
 
Where is the money coming from? The source makes ALL the difference.
All you're doing with this plan is allowing time for govs to print massive amounts of money over a longer period of time (already doing it at a smaller scale). Which debases whatever currency is at the source.
Your 2027 "testing inflation affects" is exactly where this little UBI experiment would die.
Because if it actually got to your 2045, $8000 wouldn't buy a loaf of bread! Hyperinflation would see to that.
All you have to do is look around the world at some of the examples of countries now with hyperinflation.
You think 1st world countries are immune? No way!

The US has a failing social security system that the gov has ruined. And that's just for people who've supposedly worked the majority of their lives, been told they're paying into a system that will pay them when they retire. The US gov has stolen from it basically since it's inception, and just prints more money to inflate the money that it puts back.
And you think a system, run by a government, that is suppose to pay ALL citizens, not just those past their productive working age, is going to work out positively? You're delusional.
I think you should read the FAQs on any UBI site because it sounds like you're coming at it from a "we tried that" mindset and aren't taking on new information.


How can we pay for a UBI?​
The UK spends over £93 billion per year on corporate subsidies and tax breaks. We could pay for a modest UBI solely by ending these subsidies and tax breaks. We could also pay for it by raising taxes on higher earners, or introducing new taxes. Carbon taxes, financial transaction taxes and land taxes could all pay for a UBI.​
There are many different ways to pay for a UBI, but all show that a UBI for everyone is easily affordable.​
 
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Tax on exclusive usage of finite resources (common good). The rate can be varied especially at the higher end as some people will compete in daft ways.
  1. Land (especially coast, river) - economic/rental value, zoning
  2. Air quality - polluters pay
  3. Fishing
  4. Radio spectrum
There are huge parts of Scotland and other parts of the UK that are virtually untaxed as they're classed as agricultural when in actual fact they are for recreation (shooting estates) and inheritance tax avoidance.

MacArthur's land reforms arguably helped Japan hugely. I wonder if Land Value Tax (LVT) would help us all. Often the rich have the land and the power. LVT helps turn hoarding (even radio spectrum) into productive endeavour.

Robots need land, owners can pay for zoned land rights. People can receive their share of the common goods.

Admittedly, as a damn yank, I'm not familiar with UK laws, so I can't speak to the existing situation of where UK's gov funds originate.
But it sounds like, as in the US, many of the laws are written to benefit the haves and penalize the have-nots.
Putting everyone's trust in the gov, and relying on them for your only income is a recipe for disaster. CBDC's are slavery.

What do you mean by "robots need land"?
Aren't we talking about robots as a labor force? Robot workers would be like any other equipment. Like agricultural bots can be stored in a barn, warehouse, or closet for that matter. Manufacturing robots never need to leave the factory.
The biggest taxes from owning robots would/should be property taxes. You as the owner, pay a tax for owning the robots. Some concessions could be made for residential owners below a certain income (ie, caregiver-type robots for the elderly).
Of course, you're going to have all the huge global corporations lobbying for incentives, and buying politicians to get friendlier corp robot laws passed. The corruption wheel continues to turn.
 
Tax corporations more. Any business with customers will be a goldmine in the future where bots make everything for ~$0.

Inflation won't be a problem in that world. Deflation is the real concern.

Do you have an alternate plan?

You just contradicted yourself.
You think deflation is a bad thing? You want businesses to use robots, make "everything for ~$0", and keep their prices the same?
Are you serious? The whole point of advancing tech is to make things cheaper. Not just cheaper to make, but also cheaper to buy.
So deflation should actually be the goal, not something to avoid. Inflation is the enemy. Inflation is theft over time.

This whole UBI thing is just about control. The government's way to keep control over the money, and over you.
Anyone who is reading this and is for UBI, needs to really educate themselves on what is money.
Any form of fiat money is the wrong answer.

Start your education here:
Broken Money - by Lynn Alden is a good book to read as well, to learn the history of fiat, and why it's the problem.

The only real alternate plan that can actually work, is to take the power of money printing away from the governments.
Without doing that, no other "plan" can actually work. And that can't be done by force, so that means there would have to be an alternate form of money we could use instead of their fiat. A money that is open to all, cannot be duplicated, counterfeited, or confiscated. A money that is deflationary by nature, has a scarce amount in circulation, and is protected by a network that all of us can freely use and participate.
It just so happens that this form of money has been in existence for 15 yrs now. And it has been growing and preparing for a time like this to show us how we can use it to take back our financial freedom. Bitcoin is the answer.
You won't even need UBI on a Bitcoin standard money system. Because it cannot be inflated. It is the most sound form of money the world has ever seen.
 
You just contradicted yourself.
You think deflation is a bad thing? You want businesses to use robots, make "everything for ~$0", and keep their prices the same?
Are you serious? The whole point of advancing tech is to make things cheaper. Not just cheaper to make, but also cheaper to buy.
So deflation should actually be the goal, not something to avoid. Inflation is the enemy. Inflation is theft over time.

This whole UBI thing is just about control. The government's way to keep control over the money, and over you.
Anyone who is reading this and is for UBI, needs to really educate themselves on what is money.
Any form of fiat money is the wrong answer.

Start your education here:
Broken Money - by Lynn Alden is a good book to read as well, to learn the history of fiat, and why it's the problem.

The only real alternate plan that can actually work, is to take the power of money printing away from the governments.
Without doing that, no other "plan" can actually work. And that can't be done by force, so that means there would have to be an alternate form of money we could use instead of their fiat. A money that is open to all, cannot be duplicated, counterfeited, or confiscated. A money that is deflationary by nature, has a scarce amount in circulation, and is protected by a network that all of us can freely use and participate.
It just so happens that this form of money has been in existence for 15 yrs now. And it has been growing and preparing for a time like this to show us how we can use it to take back our financial freedom. Bitcoin is the answer.
You won't even need UBI on a Bitcoin standard money system. Because it cannot be inflated. It is the most sound form of money the world has ever seen.
I see your contradiction but:
  1. Show me an economist that agrees with you on deflation
  2. Imagine prices staying the same for the next 30 years. Neither inflation or deflation (ideally 1-2% per annum). Costs would then be ~$0 in an economy ten times larger.
Agreed regarding money printing. Elon might do something good with Dogecoin in my crazy thinking world.

Solving fiat is not a plan for New York where folk have no means of making money in a robot world and order must be maintained. Embrace the robots or they will have you surrounded.
 

So let me get this straight. 1st world governments are creating CBDC's, then talking of UBI, as a way to implement their CBDC, as that's how they'll require you to receive it. Then they have you, digital slavery. Total financial control of you. Where do I sign up? :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, 3rd world countries are going to other way, and using Bitcoin to get out from under the 1st world thumb of the IMF and World Bank debt. And they are starting to thrive like never before using the most secure, most sound money, that has ever existed.
In the next decade, you're going to see 3rd world countries become 2nd and early 1st world countries through the stability (yep, I said it, stable) Bitcoin. And at the same time, 1st world fiat countries will becoming 2nd world countries through fiat inflation and debt.

Everyone better start educating themselves on the global scale, and not just isolating themselves in their little local bubbles.
Change is happening all over the world. And while mainstream media distracts you with wars and the latest shiny objects, the real change is happening mostly unnoticed. Fiat govs know they're screwed, and have just been passing the buck onto the next generation for about as long as they can. And until now (15 yrs ago), we didn't have an alternative. We just let them keep doing it, buried our heads in the sand.

We don't have to let them ruin our great-grandkids lives anymore. We have an alternative to exit their fixed fiat system.
I say fixed because it's not broken. It works exactly the way they want it to. It's fixed in a way the average person can no longer prosper. And they're not changing that system. Doesn't matter who you vote in. The system is set, can't be changed from within.
Exiting that fiat system is the only way. Bitcoin is the best and only viable alternative.
 
I see your contradiction but:
  1. Show me an economist that agrees with you on deflation
  2. Imagine prices staying the same for the next 30 years. Neither inflation or deflation (ideally 1-2% per annum). Costs would then be ~$0 in an economy ten times larger.
Agreed regarding money printing. Elon might do something good with Dogecoin in my crazy thinking world.

Solving fiat is not a plan for New York where folk have no means of making money in a robot world and order must be maintained. Embrace the robots or they will have you surrounded.

1) Have you heard of the Austrian school of Economics?
Carl Menger - Principles of Economics (the founder of the School of Austrian Econ)
Ludwig von Mises - Theory of Money and Credit (credited with the theory of marginal utility)
Friedrich Hayek - won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1974.
Murray Rothbard - American, over 20 books written on Economics

Every single one of them, and all economists educated in Austrian Economics, believe inflation is not only bad, but actually completely unnecessary. A free-market economy will always find the balance between supply and demand. You let the market make the decisions, not the government. All the government does is screw things up. They say they're just manipulating things to fix recessions. But the THEY cause the recessions in the first place! A free, open market, doesn't need the gov's help. It will always adjust on it's own.

All the economists that you know, are Keynesian economists. They think the gov HAS to be involved. Govs made the theories of Keynes popular in the 1930's, as a way to, you guessed it, take control of the economy.
But long before govs existed, there were all kinds of economies running perfectly fine. The gov does nothing but complicate, manipulate, and unbalance any economy it gets involved in. It's sole purpose is to control everything. Not everything should be controlled by a gov. The sooner people start taking responsibility for themselves again, the sooner the world can move in a better direction.

2) Why wait 30 yrs? A free, open market would adjust itself immediately. And then you get to enjoy even better results without the wait.
Also, 1%-2% inflation is still inflation. At 2% annual inflation, the price of everything doubles in 50 yrs. If in that same time, technology allows companies to make those same things for 50% less, or 5% less, doesn't matter.
Why should the public be okay with paying twice as much for it?
See, that's the problem with thinking a small amount of inflation is okay. A grandfather may complain they're paying twice what they did 50yrs ago, but his grandchild doesn't know any better. That's what the government is counting on.
But in reality, we know right now, that inflation will never get back down even close to 2%. It's more like 10% or more in most places.
So that means the price of everything doubles every 10 yrs. This is why Gen Z's can't even afford to buy houses.
And that's also why no one has a savings account anymore, because even if you somehow have an account earning 5% interest, at 10% inflation, you're really LOSING 5% every year that money sits there. That's why inflation is theft over time.

So, no, I don't think any amount of inflation is okay.
And deflation should be the goal. So that what we buy costs less over time, and what we save can actually grow.
 
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A free, open market, doesn't need the gov's help. It will always adjust on it's own.
Free markets as you describe don't exist, unregulated markets end up with power imbalance, monopolies, and exploitation. That's the "free market" in action.
I feel like I'm lecturing basic economics which is odd because you seem to have done some reading, I wonder if you are just choosing the bits you like the sound of eg Anti government control.

I also think you're making out the gov to be smarter and more capable than it actually is. It's not like one individual mastermind with a grand plan.
This is why Gen Z's can't even afford to buy houses.
In the UK this is mostly down to house prices being propped by foreign ownership and private landlords. That's the "free market" in action completely crippling first time buyers. It doesn't balance itself out, the rich get richer and the divide is widened. It's not the gov doing that, it's individuals wanting to earn more money. In Germany the gov actually helped by introducing rent caps, I wish the same happened here.

Bitcoin is disruptive to the establishment but I don't see it being the Lord and Saviour you make it out to be. I could be wrong on this, it's an exciting time.

Anyway, back to UBI, I know Canada hasn't put it in place but they're closest and the fact it's being discussed at that level is important. It isn't backroom theory anymore.
 
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Free markets as you describe don't exist, unregulated markets end up with power imbalance, monopolies, and exploitation. That's the "free market" in action.
I feel like I'm lecturing basic economics which is odd because you seem to have done some reading, I wonder if you are just choosing the bits you like the sound of eg Anti government control.

I also think you're making out the gov to be smarter and more capable than it actually is. It's not like one individual mastermind with a grand plan.

In the UK this is mostly down to house prices being propped by foreign ownership and private landlords. That's the "free market" in action completely crippling first time buyers. It doesn't balance itself out, the rich get richer and the divide is widened. It's not the gov doing that, it's individuals wanting to earn more money. In Germany the gov actually helped by introducing rent caps, I wish the same happened here.

Bitcoin is disruptive to the establishment but I don't see it being the Lord and Saviour you make it out to be. I could be wrong on this, it's an exciting time.

Anyway, back to UBI, I know Canada hasn't put it in place but they're closest and the fact it's being discussed at that level is important. It isn't backroom theory anymore.
I agree with all here except housing. Main problem is we aren’t building enough. Particularly smaller properties.
 
I agree with all here except housing. Main problem is we aren’t building enough. Particularly smaller properties.
Why would private companies build to meet demand when they can build to maintain an artificial scarcity and maximise profits.

That's my cynical opinion, I don't know enough to really comment on what is probably a complex issue.
 
Free markets as you describe don't exist, unregulated markets end up with power imbalance, monopolies, and exploitation. That's the "free market" in action.
I feel like I'm lecturing basic economics which is odd because you seem to have done some reading, I wonder if you are just choosing the bits you like the sound of eg Anti government control.

I also think you're making out the gov to be smarter and more capable than it actually is. It's not like one individual mastermind with a grand plan.

In the UK this is mostly down to house prices being propped by foreign ownership and private landlords. That's the "free market" in action completely crippling first time buyers. It doesn't balance itself out, the rich get richer and the divide is widened. It's not the gov doing that, it's individuals wanting to earn more money. In Germany the gov actually helped by introducing rent caps, I wish the same happened here.

Bitcoin is disruptive to the establishment but I don't see it being the Lord and Saviour you make it out to be. I could be wrong on this, it's an exciting time.

Anyway, back to UBI, I know Canada hasn't put it in place but they're closest and the fact it's being discussed at that level is important. It isn't backroom theory anymore.
There are going to be bad players in any fiat system. Can't avoid it. So I agree with you that a free market can't exist with fiat.

But, on a Bitcoin standard monetary system, where the rich and powerful don't get first access to newly created money, the massive global conglomerates can't afford to exist. They rely on Wall St and the gov manipulating the fiat, and bailing them out. And the banks don't get to do whatever they want.
Bitcoin incentivizes playing by the rules. It just won't be profitable to try to cheat that system.
When you fix the money, the effects trickle through every aspect of the economy. Large corporations get strangled by their own inefficiencies. You'll see a movement back toward more local smaller economies. Mom and pop stores will begin to come back because they'll be able to compete again. And that will allow the general public to choose those instead. That's when a true free market can work, when the people actually get to vote with their money.

As for me thinking that govs are smarter than they are, it's not that. There will come a day, possibly sooner rather than later, that these gov officials are going to see the writing on the wall. At that point, it's not even about anything sidious, it'll be about survival.
Not sure about UK, but US congress doesn't have term limits, so we have career politicians. If the USD gets replaced as the global reserve currency by Bitcoin, you're looking at complete chaos. Corporations will have no choice but to cut most, if not all, of their lobbyists, which will mean most of the senators and house reps will be taking major cuts to not only their campaign contributions, but also their kickback payments. So at that point, they're going to have to decide if it's even worth it for them to stay in office. Most of them have/had successful businesses/careers before running for office, making far more than their political office salary. They don't go into politics for the peanut salary.
So when Bitcoin threatens their meal ticket, which it does, they will absolutely put up a fight, regardless of party affiliation. They will come together to try and stop it. Some already are. Some are publicly supporting it, just for votes, while they privately are against it.
But make no mistake, they will fight tooth and nail to keep grasp of their power.

Corporations have had to switch their investment strategies towards residential property because of how bad fiat has become. They realized the better ROI was in property instead of the previous investments they used to do, like stocks, bonds, and treasuries.
If gold weren't so difficult and expensive to move and protect, they'd buy that, because it's a more sound investment than anything linked to fiat. More and more financial and investment firms are starting to buy Bitcoin because it has all the positives of gold without the negatives.

So I'm a realist, not a pessimist. And I'm for small gov, not anti-gov. Just anti this current form of gov, because it only works for the elite few at the top. And there's no such thing as trickle-down economics.
That's why Bitcoin brings hope. It's a bottom-up technology, bringing the power back to the masses. As a yank, I've been brought up being taught the history of the US escaping the feudal British empire, valuing personal freedoms (disappearing as they are). Maybe Brits are just so used to being ruled by the elite few that it doesn't resonate with them the same way. No disrespect, just an idea.

Canada is the perfect example of all that I've been saying! The Canadian gov has already shown it's hand when they financially attacked the truckers of the blockade. Their citizens now know their gov is not out for their best interests. The gov will do whatever it wants to keep their power and control.
And what disrupted those attempts to cut the trucker's money off? Bitcoin
So it does not surprise me at all that that gov would be the one actively researching UBI.
 
Admittedly, as a damn yank, I'm not familiar with UK laws, so I can't speak to the existing situation of where UK's gov funds originate.
But it sounds like, as in the US, many of the laws are written to benefit the haves and penalize the have-nots.
Putting everyone's trust in the gov, and relying on them for your only income is a recipe for disaster. CBDC's are slavery.

What do you mean by "robots need land"?
Aren't we talking about robots as a labor force? Robot workers would be like any other equipment. Like agricultural bots can be stored in a barn, warehouse, or closet for that matter. Manufacturing robots never need to leave the factory.
The biggest taxes from owning robots would/should be property taxes. You as the owner, pay a tax for owning the robots. Some concessions could be made for residential owners below a certain income (ie, caregiver-type robots for the elderly).
Of course, you're going to have all the huge global corporations lobbying for incentives, and buying politicians to get friendlier corp robot laws passed. The corruption wheel continues to turn.
Zoning. Restaurants with/without robots or per robot as you suggest can have different tax rates. Products have to be delivered, so tax on use of roads, radio spectrum.
 
I think many people think UBI or another mechanism should be done. I agree. I've also seen numerous examples where the local 1% take everything and don't care for the rest of the population.

We need to guard against this.

To a large degree, having $TSLA or investments is personal insurance.

People do need purpose. Work doesn't work for me as most projects I've done recently are really daft and uninspiring. I mostly do it for the money, or more accurately for sustaining my family. My work can be intellectually fulfilling, but at least equally frustrating.

I watch a lot of videos on UK & USA people and towns where people seem lost. Often sipping breakfast beers. Many UK Town centres are depressing as hell.

Eg on youtube "Wandering Turnip", Peter someone, "Soft White Underbelly"

This worries me. I don't have an answer but we need to start opening people's eyes to what life has to offer. Hard though.

Make work schemes and crappie jobs won't help. Social connection, shared goals might.

Mainstream media is a big problem, clickbait hate and ignorance generation.

UBI should be at least partly inclusive of big random payouts to stir things up.

Encouragement for kids, plenty of places for parents and grandparents to socialise while children play. More children people have in their environment and social circles, more they have kids.

Support for community centres, men's sheds, introductions to neighbours, cheap venues well advertised. Or TMC

Post independence, FIRE etc, I'm off travelling.
 
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Support for community centres, men's sheds, introductions to neighbours, cheap venues well advertised. Or TMC
100% agree. UBI, once sorted, points to a social and psychological issue that will require new attention and hopefully change us for the better.

The "dosser" is likely feeling hopeless themselves, lost in a system without motivation and labelled a loser by others. Once we connect and respect each other I hope the goodness in us all can shine. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic 😛
 
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