V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

[Dag]

Charged at the Fremont V3 Charger this morning.

Ambient outside temp: 74F
4:27am - 5:01am
Warm-up: ~15mins - 12 miles
2017 Model 3 LR - Software Version: 2019.20.1 9973c22
Battery balance maybe off as my 100% is 304 miles
Total Charge Session: ~34.5mins

Estimated battery highlights
12% - 38 miles - 0 mins (Top out at 239kW for a few seconds before dropping down)
20% - 61 miles - 2 mins (204 kW)
30% - 91 miles - 4 mins (185 kW)
40% - 122 miles - 7 mins (170 kW)
50% - 152 miles - 9.75 mins (138 kW)
60% - 183 miles - 13.25 mins (108 kW)
70% - 212 miles - 17.75 mins (85 kW)
80% - 244 miles - 24 mins (53 kW)
90% - 274 miles - ~34.5 mins (32 kW)

Time-Lapse below. Full video coming soon

 

[peakshaving]

WOW 239kW! Seems like the power's limited by ambient temperature for V3. Really hoping the charging curves for the SR(+) will enable a similar improvement on V3. 150 miles in less than 15 minutes is nuts!

 

[Zoomit]

Charged at the Fremont V3 Charger this morning.

Thanks for the data and video! This is the first good V3 dataset I've seen from 19.20.1 and confirms it's a full V3 charging profile, although they may continue to tweak it. I suspect the battery wasn't quite at optimal temperature as heating the battery from ~70 to ~100F may not be possible in 15 minutes. The overlap above 50% is obvious but we'll need more examples to parse out what's happening below 50%. As a reminder, the privaterbot data in blue is from the V3 demo 3 months ago, so it may not be representative of what a car with 19.20.1 can charge at today.

 

[Dag]

Full Video for those interested.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Looks like you added 236 miles and spent $17.60
At 250 Wh/mi that gives me 59 kWh and about 30¢/kWh

 

[Fonguy]

Wow! 240 Kw through a 4416 cell pack! That amounts to a peak power of almost 54 watts delivered to each cell. That’s over 12 amps per cell more than double the original peak charging current allowed by Tesla for the 2170. That means a peak power of about 1.5 watts dissipated in each cell and almost 7 kw total in the pack for a few minutes, the equivalent heating power of about 7 toasters. Pretty impressive cooling system.

 

[Feathermerchan]

240,000 W ÷ 4,416 cells = 54 W per cell
Um Fonguy your math is not correct.
We are charging the battery which I hope means at least most of the energy (240kW) is going into the chamicals in the cell and so not going to heat. I'd hope that 90% or more is going into the calls for use later. That leaves:
240,000 X 0.1 = 24,000 ÷ 4416 = 5.4W per cell.

Here:
Comparing the Battery with other Power Sources – Battery University

It says the charge efficiency is 99%. so that would be 0.54W per cell.

 

[EfficientWatts]

Fastned on Twitter

This is on a 175kW charger so we're not getting the full curve here but it seems similar to V2 superchargers. Maybe a good reference point still though, as later on they do plan to upgrade to 350kW.

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting info on the V3 SC network plan... Tesla Shareholder's Meeting News Hub - Electrek

 

[Zoomit]

This is on a 175kW charger so we're not getting the full curve here but it seems similar to V2 superchargers. Maybe a good reference point still though, as later on they do plan to upgrade to 350kW.

Yes, The "150kW", "160kW" and "175kW" CCS units will all charge pretty close to V2 Superchargers. Bjorn's session on a 350kW IONITY charger, shown below in dashed gray, is the same as will be seen on 350kW Electrify America and FASTNED units.

Interesting info on the V3 SC network plan...

Those maps and numbers sure look like the current network. I don't think they imply anything about the V3 Supercharger rollout.

Concerning V3 profiles, @Randy Spencer posted a video and description of his V3 charging session at Fremont. It sounds like the battery was adequately warmed. I've included it in orange below and it has good correlation to Dag's session in red.

It's great to see these sessions starting at low SoC but it will be interesting to record sessions starting at higher SoC to see how long they maintain high power. It will be especially telling to see MR and SR/+ sessions as they surely won't be thermally limited by the cable, stall, or chargers.

 

[iPop]

WOW 239kW! Seems like the power's limited by ambient temperature for V3. Really hoping the charging curves for the SR(+) will enable a similar improvement on V3. 150 miles in less than 15 minutes is nuts!

Smaller capacity batteries (SR) cannot receive the same input current as greater. This is an advantage of long range options as stated by tesla.com. Same is true about higher states of charge--they cannot receive as much power (when voltage limited) compared to batteries "more empty" (registering lower terminal voltage). (State of charge is partly, largely measured by battery pack voltage.) But, to repeat my first clarification. SR cannot charge as high a rate as LR.

 

[Wennfred]

Any California SR+ owners willing to try out V3 and report back? I'm still really curious if/when that ~100 kW cap will be lifted...

Where’s a V3, I can go try it this Sunday.

Fred

 

[willow_hiller]

Where’s a V3, I can go try it this Sunday.

Fred

Thanks, Fred! I think @Zoomit said that SR+ on 2019.20.1 should be able to see higher than 110 kW from a low SOC on V2 superchargers too. If Tesla's uncapped the SR+ proportionally to the LR, we should be able to get the full 150 kW from V2.

The only V3 location I can pin down is at the Fremont CA Tesla factory. I think there may be one more also in CA, but I don't know if it's open yet.

 

[Wennfred]

Thanks, Fred! I think @Zoomit said that SR+ on 2019.20.1 should be able to see higher than 110 kW from a low SOC on V2 superchargers too. If Tesla's uncapped the SR+ proportionally to the LR, we should be able to get the full 150 kW from V2.

The only V3 location I can pin down is at the Fremont CA Tesla factory. I think there may be one more also in CA, but I don't know if it's open yet.

Hawthorn is closer like 2 hours from here

 

[israndy]

How do you build those charge curve graphs? I had intended to make such a graph of my charge session from this week

Thanks for doing the heavy lifting

 

[israndy]

Interesting info on the V3 SC network plan... Tesla Shareholder's Meeting News Hub - Electrek

What was interesting about that? The 700 SuCs on that US map are already in place and only 1 is an open V3. It would be interesting to know when and how many V3s are in the pipeline, but the map of new Superchargers doesn't include any such info.

 

[peakshaving]

Smaller capacity batteries (SR) cannot receive the same input current as greater. This is an advantage of long range options as stated by tesla.com. Same is true about higher states of charge--they cannot receive as much power (when voltage limited) compared to batteries "more empty" (registering lower terminal voltage). (State of charge is partly, largely measured by battery pack voltage.) But, to repeat my first clarification. SR cannot charge as high a rate as LR.

I'm well aware it won't be anywhere near the LR rates, which is why I said improvement. Ideally we'd see ~170kW for the SR packs.

 

[willow_hiller]

I'm well aware it won't be anywhere near the LR rates, which is why I said improvement. Ideally we'd see ~170kW for the SR packs.

Also, where does it say on Tesla.com that the SR charges slower? I know it's a matter of physics, but I didn't learn that the SR has a slower supercharging rate until I started browsing this forum. I cannot find a single place on the Tesla website that says the average/peak charge rates per configuration.

 

[Zoomit]

How do you build those charge curve graphs?

I watch the video and punch the numbers into a spreadsheet. My wife just rolls her eyes.

 

[Feathermerchan]

The reason charge rate must slow down with high charge rate and as SOC increases:
Any battery cell increases voltage instantly as charge current is applied. The higher the current, the more the voltage increases.
As SOC increases battery cell voltage also rises.
For LiIon, when battery cell voltage reaches 4.2V, charge current must be decreased to maintain no more than 4.2V or the battery will fail.

The long range Model 3 battery has 46 cells in parallel and 96 parallel modules in series. Charge current is divided by 46 into each cell. So at 100A battery charge current, the cell current is 100 ÷ 46 = 2.17 Amps.

If a battery were half the capacity there would be 23 cells in parallel and 96 parallel modules in series. Then at 100A charge current each cell current would be 100 ÷ 23 = 4.34 Amps.

So the smaller battery charges each cell at a higher rate and therefore must decrease the charge rate in less time to protect the battery..