Vampire Drain/Loss Tracking

[AlanSubie4Life]

AFAIK, most of that loss is the pack temperature moving around. A warmer pack will show a higher SOC than a cooler pack. Some of it is standby losses, but those should be < 1 mile/day, excluding cabin overheat protection.

As @TexasEV pointed out to me earlier in this thread, Tesla says it will be 1% per day (3.1 miles), and that is the reality of what most people see. It's within 30% of that for most people I think. (Assuming a car that is not bothered, no doors open, etc.).

It's definitely not due to pack temperature. Not saying you can't see some change outside the bounds of "normal" as a hot pack cools (and obviously an extremely cold pack gets a temporary (no energy is lost) "demerit"), but that all is on top of the steady 3-4 miles a day.

Unrelated:
Recently, I haven't found that being in the proximity of the vehicle causes it to leave sleep mode (no contactor sounds). So that's good. People have complained about that in the past but doesn't really seem to be an issue these days.

 

[jombolo]

Unrelated:
Recently, I haven't found that being in the proximity of the vehicle causes it to leave sleep mode (no contactor sounds). So that's good. People have complained about that in the past but doesn't really seem to be an issue these days.

I still think the causation here is the bluetooth of individual personal devices, especially for android users where there are far more hardware and software variations in comparison to apple devices. Just a hunch.

 

[rb8888]

Over a 33 day period of just sitting in my garage, I lost an average of 4.15 miles per day. (I only checked in via my app twice to check in on the status, which didn't have any significant effect on the power lost per day.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

As @TexasEV pointed out to me earlier in this thread, Tesla says it will be 1% per day (3.1 miles), and that is the reality of what most people see. It's within 30% of that for most people I think. (Assuming a car that is not bothered, no doors open, etc.).

It's definitely not due to pack temperature. Not saying you can't see some change outside the bounds of "normal" as a hot pack cools (and obviously an extremely cold pack gets a temporary (no energy is lost) "demerit"), but that all is on top of the steady 3-4 miles a day.

Unrelated:
Recently, I haven't found that being in the proximity of the vehicle causes it to leave sleep mode (no contactor sounds). So that's good. People have complained about that in the past but doesn't really seem to be an issue these days.

AFAIK, Tesla uses 1% because actual losses plus the swing in reported range/capacity when the car goes from warm to cold or vice versa is 3-4 miles/day.

[Discussion] ‎Canadian cold costs me 50km (31 miles) of range overnight. Car is 'too cold' to wake up. Why isn't power diverted to keep battery warm? : teslamotors

But my experience and what I've read suggests actual losses are around 1 mile/day.

Does it draw power when plugged in, not charging?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

AFAIK, Tesla uses 1% because actual losses plus the swing in reported range/capacity when the car goes from warm to cold or vice versa is 3-4 miles/day.

[Discussion] ‎Canadian cold costs me 50km (31 miles) of range overnight. Car is 'too cold' to wake up. Why isn't power diverted to keep battery warm? : teslamotors

But my experience and what I've read suggests actual losses are around 1 mile/day.

Does it draw power when plugged in, not charging?

My experience and numerous reports indicate a 3-4 mile per day loss. My friend did a deliberate test in a garage at 60 degrees F and left the car unattended for 21 days and lost 90 rated miles. And Tesla on page 122 claims the drain is for onboard electronics:

"its Battery discharges very slowly to power the onboard electronics. The Battery may discharge at a rate of approximately 1% per day."

So it all makes sense. It's always draining all the time at 3-4 miles a day. If you're experiencing 1 mile/day, you have a real winner and we would like to know your methods. Try not driving it for a week, leaving it unplugged, and report back!

 

[Magnets!]

I've noticed much less vampire drain when turning off Bluetooth on my phone at home. If not, since my car is below my house Bluetooth will go in and out of connection depending on where I am in the house. I also noticed that once I disconnect Bluetooth the car goes right to sleep.

 

[jombolo]

I've noticed much less vampire drain when turning off Bluetooth on my phone at home. If not, since my car is below my house Bluetooth will go in and out of connection depending on where I am in the house. I also noticed that once I disconnect Bluetooth the car goes right to sleep.

What kind of phone do you have?

 

[Magnets!]

What kind of phone do you have?

Iphone X. However, in double checking my data, I did find one day out of 4 that still had vampire drain with BT off. Perhaps the 12V battery was just due for a charge on that day or something? I'll continue to track and see.

 

[tburk32]

I'm trying to decide if I want to drive my model 3 to the airport or use our other car. If the car is parked for 5 days and the temperatures are supposed to be around 10*F at night all week, I'm thinking I'd expect to lose about 15 miles per day. Is that about what I should expect?

 

[f8K37Sq31]

I'm trying to decide if I want to drive my model 3 to the airport or use our other car. If the car is parked for 5 days and the temperatures are supposed to be around 10*F at night all week, I'm thinking I'd expect to lose about 15 miles per day. Is that about what I should expect?

My average phantom drain rate is 0.25 miles per hour. It highly depends on temperature.
Attached is the distribution of phantom drain across a large group of users.

 

[doghousePVD]

I have been very concerned about cold weather vampires, eg, 0˚F weather at the airport. I sat at the airport for 11 days in the cold, but did not record before and after energy. I got there probably with 85%, and only had 15 miles to get to my home charger, so I don't know my losses.

Does turning "Off" on-screen make any difference in helping the car to deep sleep?

Why should the battery care if it is cold if it is not doing anything? Yes, regen at startup will suffer, as will hard acceleration. But just sitting, why waste energy keeping it warm?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I have been very concerned about cold weather vampires, eg, 0˚F weather at the airport. I sat at the airport for 11 days in the cold, but did not record before and after energy. I got there probably with 85%, and only had 15 miles to get to my home charger, so I don't know my losses.

Does turning "Off" on-screen make any difference in helping the car to deep sleep?

Why should the battery care if it is cold if it is not doing anything? Yes, regen at startup will suffer, as will hard acceleration. But just sitting, why waste energy keeping it warm?

Turning the car off probably makes no difference; though I have seen people speculate I have seen no data. Tesla does not say that doing so will help.

The vampire drain is not doing anything to the HV battery other than slowly draining it. The typical vampire drain is not keeping the battery warm or doing anything to directly protect the battery (no protection is needed; it is perfectly fine for it to be frozen as long as you don’t try to charge it (lithium plating)). It’s just running various electronics, browsing the Internet, etc.

You can read page 122 of the Owner’s Manual for the full description. Tesla says leaving your vehicle plugged in will allow it to maintain optimal battery health (I read that as to prevent it from discharging to an unhealthy level). That is separate from the vampire drain, but I think people incorrectly read that to think that vampire drain is somehow helping the battery. It is not, as detailed clearly elsewhere on page 122.

Vampire drain is preventing the 12V battery from being immediately destroyed, but overall it is negative for the 12V battery health.

In your case I would expect to see 1% per day, plus an additional temporary demerit due to a cold battery (which you will get back).

 

[Zcd1]

This discussion has certainly continued "ad nauseaum", IMO, but I will be interested to see how range much my car loses while parked at the airport for 2.5 days with temps dipping below 0 degrees F the 2nd night...

SOC when I left it this morning was 85%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This discussion has certainly continued "ad nauseaum", IMO, but I will be interested to see how range much my car loses while parked at the airport for 2.5 days with temps dipping below 0 degrees F the 2nd night...

SOC when I left it this morning was 85%.

It is sickening, but many (just like you!) have a continued fascination with it.

I will register a bet of 9 miles + 12 miles for temperature if your battery has a snowflake (which you will get back). So 7%.

Ideally we’d know your miles but oh well. I don’t really know how the car deals with “%” in the cold, as it is not directly convertible to miles (though 3.1mi/% is often assumed). And I have never had a snowflake, so no experience.

Let us know. You know we’ll be here.

 

[Zcd1]

It is sickening, but many (just like you!) have a continued fascination with it.

I will register a bet of 9 miles + 12 miles for temperature if your battery has a snowflake (which you will get back). So 7%.

Ideally we’d know your miles but oh well. I don’t really know how the car deals with “%” in the cold, as it is not directly convertible to miles (though 3.1mi/% is often assumed). And I have never had a snowflake, so no experience.

Let us know. You know we’ll be here.

No fascination on my part, as I will provide my data point and then happily ride off into the distance, content to presume that the 3-4 miles per day will continue, ad infinitum (or mebbe slightly shorter than that).

I switched my display from "miles remaining" to SOC after realizing how useless "miles remaining" is much of the time (shrug).

Oh, and I can all but guarantee a snowflake upon my return... ;-)

 

[baton]

1% or about 3 miles loss of battery a day seems a lot to me just for running electronics, unless they are running / downloading / uploading hard data on the internet continuously. That’s how much I see on my MR and corresponds to the manual.

Hopefully Tesla will do something to improve this probably unnecessary drain loss. I have leased a leaf and an e-golf before but never saw this large amount of battery drain.

 

[Zcd1]

This discussion has certainly continued "ad nauseaum", IMO, but I will be interested to see how range much my car loses while parked at the airport for 2.5 days with temps dipping below 0 degrees F the 2nd night...

SOC when I left it this morning was 85%.

Report:
Lost 6% over 48 hours, including waking the car up once, plus pre-heating the interior as I walked from the airport gate to the car - probably close to 15 minutes. Air temperature when I arrived was 4 degrees F. And yes, I had a snowflake when I arrived. Car isn't as fast when that snowflake is illuminated! (duh)

So, now I can plan accordingly. Mission accomplished.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Report:
Lost 6% over 48 hours, including waking the car up once, plus pre-heating the interior as I walked from the airport gate to the car - probably close to 15 minutes. Air temperature when I arrived was 4 degrees F. And yes, I had a snowflake when I arrived. Car isn't as fast when that snowflake is illuminated! (duh)

So, now I can plan accordingly. Mission accomplished.

Seems about right.
I would guess 2-3% from the preheat (2kWh avg 8kW for 15 minutes)...I guess you did not make note of % prior to turning on?

I’ll never see the snowflake so I will never know how it works. Do they show green plus some blue? Where green is miles available and blue is the portion you will recover? But they don’t tell you the exact amount of miles restricted, you have to eyeball it?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I switched my display from "miles remaining" to SOC after realizing how useless "miles remaining" is much of the time

The main advantage of miles is it gives you information about battery degradation (no way to see that with SoC/%). Not that there has been any degradation with Model 3s so far.... Miles tells you energy directly while % does not. If the pack is not degraded there is no difference.

 

[Zcd1]

Seems about right.
I would guess 2-3% from the preheat (2kWh avg 8kW for 15 minutes)...I guess you did not make note of % prior to turning on?

I’ll never see the snowflake so I will never know how it works. Do they show green plus some blue? Where green is miles available and blue is the portion you will recover? But they don’t tell you the exact amount of miles restricted, you have to eyeball it?

1% for the preheat.

Loss then gain from the snowflake is tough to pinpoint. Car was slower for about 10 minutes until the snowflake went away.