TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Vampire Drain/Loss Tracking

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by HopeToGolf, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. HopeToGolf

    HopeToGolf Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    USA - New Jersey
    For those who are interested and need to track vampire drain I thought I would start a thread.

    I am away traveling and wanted to know how much loss I may have if the car is sitting an an airport. While the vehicle is at home in garaged conditions, I figure I can use my experience to give me a ballpark idea of how much range I may lose.

    I’m on 2018.26.3 and so far I’ve lost 3 miles per day. The car started off at 160 miles 5 days ago and sits at 145 today.

    I will speak to the service center to find out if this is “normal.” Regardless, it is what it is and for all but the longest trips, parked in the worst conditions, with the lowest SOC, I should be relatively safe. For long trips, Lyft is cheaper than long term parking anyway.
     
  2. scottm

    scottm Version 9 software sufferer

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,803
    Location:
    Canada
    Version 9 release 40.1

    I see a 2% loss overnight.

    This is a LR Dual.
     
  3. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,570
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    I generally see the same on my LR RWD.

    I think this is mostly the batteries “settling” more than it is vampire loss. Like the cell voltages drop a bit after the charge cycle completes which results in a lower reported SOC even though very little power was used overnight.

    I left mine plugged in while on a business trip for four days and it was 3% down when I got back and had not charged at all from what I could tell.

    My anecdotal experience is that firmware updates since I got the car have improved the vampire draw situation.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. BestHand

    BestHand Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    It was my concern (vampire drain) as I barely drive the car, do not use it for my everyday commute, so I thought it will then a big impact for my energy bill. I found out that my car also has a drain about 3 miles per day(24 hours). Measuring overnight will not bring right numbers and I think will show a bigger drain, as drain is bigger in a first hours after parking. If you park your car in garage you heard that whirring noise (I think it is some pump) which sometime takes long time after stop. I even created trend wondering about that sound, but it died (nobody posted any explanations). In a manual it said that drain takes about 1% of the battery capacity, which is 3 miles. I try not to wake up the car checking mileage remotely, as every time car is awake it will start that quiet pumping. Drain energy consumption is about 30w, which is not that big if we look at it, and even with no power consumption cells are losing some energy, but it is much less than 1%. I have some Li-ion notebook cells laying around and I noticed they almost do not lose energy for long time.
     
  5. C141medic

    C141medic Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ive recently had my car in the shop and this week it’s getting PPF. I’m averaging .88 miles per hour when unplugged and garaged and losing about 21 miles per each 24 hour period. Is this normal? Just seems too excessive to me. Btw, I have Stats app and T4U for iOS associated with my Tesla account. Is it possible these apps are polling the vehicle too frequently?
     
  6. Alanant

    Alanant Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    SANTA MONICA
    I have a model three performance + and I'm consistently losing a mile-per-hour of range while parked. They tell me over the phone that it's way out of spec and I need to bring it in for service. It's been in twice and both times they tell me that the vampire drain is to be expected because the car is new and the batteries need to calibrate. At the first service they told me it was because an update was trying to download the second time they think it was because the car was trying to connect to Wi-Fi to download a maps update. I've had a problem since new [about two months]. I've been waiting for a callback from a mobile ranger for almost 2 weeks now. In case anyone asks, the car is always garaged at both home and office. The temperature range is steady @ 65-80. 2 days of driving (14 miles each day) reliably uses 76 miles or range when driving conservatively.

    I'd love to get to the bottom of this once and for all. I've got a couple of big trips coming up next week and December/January. Initially, I had planned to leave the car at the airport however the battery would have completely drained by the time I get back
     
  7. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    San Diego
    I recently took a 2-day trip and left my car in the garage. P3D+, left unplugged in garage, ambient temperature 60-75F. Did not receive software updates. Vehicle has strong WiFi access when parked.

    Friday evening, started at 250 miles. Sunday evening (48 hours later), 241 miles. So 9 miles over 2 days.

    So, a lot lower than your reported drain, but I feel unacceptable. That's about 1kWh/day of drain - yours is about 5kWh/day! For me, that means an average of 41W, which is worse than a cable box. I was not pinging the car when away (no cell service), and I do not run any apps to monitor consumption.

    If Tesla & Elon are serious about this "saving the environment" thing, they should cut this vampire drain WAY down. I understand if they need to condition & heat the battery - but clearly not the case in my situation. I think a steady load of 5W - one mile every two days - would be acceptable (when the car is not being touched or polled and you're not walking into proximity of the vehicle)

    For perspective, I also have two Chevy Spark EVs, and their vampire drain is completely negligible (as it would need to be since the battery is only 18kWh usable capacity). So they have even lower than 5W average vampire drain, I believe. I've never seen their range change at all, even then they have sat unused for over a week.

    It's just not ok. The 125k Tesla Model 3s manufactured thus far are likely introducing an average load of 5MW to the nation's energy consumption when they're not even being used. Small potatoes right now, but not nothing!
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  8. jcal0820

    jcal0820 ride the wave

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    southern California
    I recently parked my brand new Model 3 at long term airport indoor parking garage for 5 days... when I parked it there, had exactly 254 miles of range. After coming back 5 days later, had 232 miles left. Only other thing I did during that time was periodically check in on it through the Tesla app.
     
  9. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    San Diego
    Sounds about right (matches mine, 4-5 miles rated per day - a little bit more than 1kWh). You're in Southern California so recent temperatures have been relatively innocuous room temperatures. Totally unacceptable if it's not battery settling or something else that isn't "real" (pretty sure it's real - your 5-day datapoint strongly suggests it is real drain)

    It would be interesting to get data from people in other climates where things are colder, to see whether the "norm" is any higher.

    I feel bad for these people who are using 20+ miles of rated range a day. I wonder how many data points there are like that?
     
  10. C141medic

    C141medic Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,059
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks for the response. I only have 359 total miles on the car. So, I’m wondering is this high vampire drain due to “balancing” of the battery since it’s still fairly new? I’m definitely going to keep an eye on this and talk to SC if it gets worse or doesn’t improve.
     
  11. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    San Diego
    I have 263 miles on my car so that would suggest it is not related to mileage. There is no way that amount of drain, 5kWh/day is normal or expected in any way. You have a serious problem.
     
  12. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    San Diego
    For the very high vampire drain people, I would definitely turn off any third party stuff for a while, to test whether you can get back to the (also terrible) baseline of ~1kWh/day.
     
  13. Oyinko

    Oyinko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    235
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I'm currently away and tracking vampire drain with my Model 3 while my car is plugged in. How many % does the Model 3 need to loose to trigger a charge? I will then calculate how many times the car needs to charge.
     
  14. Jabstep

    Jabstep New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Flushing, NY
    My new Model 3 LR is plugged into my Home Charger overnight and is draining after it tops out at the set limit (72%), and Tesla is telling me there's NOTHING wrong???? I set it for 72%, my app tells me when it is completed its charging at 72% later that evening and then when I get back in the car the next morning after unplugging the car is down to 68%!
     
  15. OverJohn

    OverJohn Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    CA - California
    Have you tried TeslaFi? It allows you to track sleep and idle events, in addition to charges and drives. Below is the data from my car this morning, with drives turned off. Read it from the bottom up. The top sleep doesn't have range loss numbers because it's still sleeping.
    upload_2018-11-23_9-1-58.png

    I got a trial subscription so that I would have a way to capture all the data from my cross-country trip for Thanksgiving. We drove from the Santa Cruz mountains (CA) to our farm (east GA). We are heading back home on Sunday... I'm going to pay for it because it feeds my need for data!
     
    • Helpful x 1
  16. Incredulocious

    Incredulocious '11 LEAF → '13 RAV4EV → '18 Model 3

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    I wholeheartedly agree. In addition I want to relate that my 2013 Toyota RAV4 EV (with a Tesla drivetrain and battery pack) seems to also have completely neglible vampire drain. There’s no problem with leaving it parked for days/weeks (with one exception I’ll get to). The difference is apparently that the Toyota electronics that manage the battery system, charge schedule, remote connectivity, watch for approach of the keyfob, etc. run much more efficiently. And note that RAV4 EV owners all also report similarly very low battery degradation over time like the Tesla Model S from the same years.

    The one important exception above is that the RAV4 EV is not able to maintain the 12V battery when left unattended for weeks. It will eventually drain the 12V battery, even if the vehicle is left plugged in. Thus it’s necessary to keep the 12V battery on a battery tender if it’s not going to be driven for weeks.
     
  17. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    San Diego
    It's so bad! In sleep mode it just consumes so much power, it's really remarkable. (Seems to align with the ~1kWh (closer to 1.2kWh) per day loss that I see.)

    Fix the vampire drain! There's no reason for it in benign ambient conditions. If not fix it, please...explain. I wonder whether it is just various subsystems failing to shut down, or whether it is a flaw in the BMS which causes it to draw current when it doesn't have to be doing anything to keep the battery at the optimal temperature.
     
  18. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,555
    Location:
    San Diego
    Good data point. Yeah, it's pretty clearly nonsense that BMS has anything to do with this issue. In extremely hot or extremely cold climates you're going to have to pay for that (which is fine!), but in benign conditions there's really no excuse and no need for this sort of drain. Maybe Tesla will come out and explain exactly what is going on, but until that time, I'm assuming this is just bad design (or they just haven't spent the time to optimize it yet).

    I'm hopeful that enough people will complain that Tesla will cut it way down. 25% of where it's at would be a good start.
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    7,462
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    It’s not just possible, it’s almost certainly the cause. I don’t understand people who let third party crap communicate with their car and then complain about vampire drain.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. BestHand

    BestHand Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    So, basically it did not have vampire drain, because 12V battery made it "invisible", took all load on itself. With Tesla constantly checking and supporting 12V battery it is a different story.

    My model 3 drain is about 3 miles a day. I can only guess, but I think that it is related to the quiet sound of pumps you can hear when the car is not sleeping. I cannot find the explanation why these pumps should work with any wake up. In my garage when no cooling or heating required for the battery, the only I can think of is a computer which starts to work more intensively when car is awake. But I cannot see a point why pumps should work sometime almost an hour after car parked. Sometimes with no reason or any wake up at all. I think it makes that "vampire" drain.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC