Vampire drain/losses are high again

[darth_vad3r]

It's quicker to turn the whole thing off and on. Just hold fan for off and tap for on. Feels a whole lot longer than 30s.
Also many times in the morning, I don't need to turn it on at all. I turn it on when I feel I need it.
Easier to confirm by ear that it's completely off too.

Sure, it's one tap quicker, about the same amount of time. Long press to turn off everything vs tap once, then tap "A/C" to turn A/C off.

But my secondary point was if you turn A/C off a few minutes before your drive ends you can avoid mildew build up from moisture as well as having the compressor off when you stop the car and next get into it. Just the fan is on. If you really don't want the fan on either next time you get in you can turn that off as well. I find I almost never drive with no airflow at all of some sort on, whether it's no A/C outside air on low fan setting, or A/C on recirculate or auto, or heat... the only time I turn the whole system off is occasionally when I park ... even then I don't even really know what I'm trying to accomplish ... save a couple Wh before I get out and lock the car? LOL.

 

[mswlogo]

Sure, it's one tap quicker, about the same amount of time. Long press to turn off everything vs tap once, then tap "A/C" to turn A/C off.

But my secondary point was if you turn A/C off a few minutes before your drive ends you can avoid mildew build up from moisture as well as having the compressor off when you stop the car and next get into it. Just the fan is on. If you really don't want the fan on either next time you get in you can turn that off as well. I find I almost never drive with no airflow at all of some sort on, whether it's no A/C outside air on low fan setting, or A/C on recirculate or auto, or heat... the only time I turn the whole system off is occasionally when I park ... even then I don't even really know what I'm trying to accomplish ... save a couple Wh before I get out and lock the car? LOL.

True about turning AC off earlier. I used to do that on other cars too. But kind of forgot about doing it on more recent cars.

I drive with HVAC off with windows open to work, before it gets hot out. No highway, all lazy back roads, not one traffic light, couple stop signs my wh/mi is crazy good on my commute. Some days I do round trip 180 wh/mi

 

[darth_vad3r]

True about turning AC off earlier. I used to do that on other cars too. But kind of forgot about doing it on more recent cars.

I drive with HVAC off with windows open to work, before it gets hot out. No highway, all lazy back roads, not one traffic light, couple stop signs my wh/mi is crazy good on my commute. Some days I do round trip 180 wh/mi

Ah, windows open... sounds like a nice commute! Must be low speed to get such low consumption and keep the windows open. Can I trade you commutes?

I think there’s supposed to be a software update (or already was one) that was supposed to blow the fans for 5 minutes (20 minutes?) after a trip with A/C-use to avoid the mildew problem. There was a thread about it. Maybe this is actually enabled now and this is what you are hearing after you exit? If it’s on maybe I don’t have to worry about manually shutting off A/C early any more either.

 

[mswlogo]

Ah, windows open... sounds like a nice commute! Must be low speed to get such low consumption and keep the windows open. Can I trade you commutes?

I think there’s supposed to be a software update (or already was one) that was supposed to blow the fans for 5 minutes (20 minutes?) after a trip with A/C-use to avoid the mildew problem. There was a thread about it. Maybe this is actually enabled now and this is what you are hearing after you exit? If it’s on maybe I don’t have to worry about manually shutting off A/C early any more either.

Good to know.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Good to know.

I actually recently started playing around with the API so next time I remember I will try to check in on the car status after it’s locked to see if the fans are on. It shows the fan speed from 0 (off) to 10. Although I suppose if it is an automatic maintenance type thing they could hide it from the API.

 

[insaneoctane]

This issue has NOT gone away. It's really starting to grate on me as it's so wasteful and my amazingly efficient Model 3 is pissing away energy. Here's a graph showing how my MPH of range loss is NOTICEABLY worse starting sometime after April firmware. Notice how many days were zero or near zero before April, but today, I'm almost always more than 1.5 MPH. The trendline used to be around 0.5 MPH and now it's 2.0+. Keep in mind when I'm at work for 8 hours, Losing 2.0 MPH = 16 miles of range loss.

 

[insaneoctane]

I'm considering showing this to my local SC. Not really expecting much from that though....

 

[KenC]

I saw you turned off overheat and sentry, but did you turn off your data connection? If that doesn't work, I'd try a real "hard" reboot, the one which is explained at mountainpass's blog. It's not the steering wheel reboot.

 

[insaneoctane]

Agree disabling data might be helpful troubleshooting approach. Wouldn't want that to be a solution because I assume that I will lose my ability to pre condition with AC as I walk out to my hot car. Just how do you disable communication?

 

[darth_vad3r]

Agree disabling data might be helpful troubleshooting approach. Wouldn't want that to be a solution because I assume that I will lose my ability to pre condition with AC as I walk out to my hot car. Just how do you disable communication?

I think there are two separate data options, one for mobile access, one for sharing data with the mothership? Something like that anyways? It’s the bottom option on one of the settings screens I think, then there are two sub options in the pop-up with a wall of text IIRC.

 

[KenC]

Agree disabling data might be helpful troubleshooting approach. Wouldn't want that to be a solution because I assume that I will lose my ability to pre condition with AC as I walk out to my hot car. Just how do you disable communication?

It's just another data point to isolate where you might be losing miles.

Obviously, say "no", in order to turn data sharing off.

 

[israndy]

I don't know if any of you use TezLab on your phone, but they recently introduced a sleep feature that has arrived at my car at the same time as the LEAST vampire drain in its life.

Since new, I was suffering and likely it was due to 3p apps I wanted to install, and I was always trying to track the worst offender. I finally gave up on ALL of them except for EV-FW.com

I would get typically as little as 2 miles loss during the day and as little as zero overnight. I launch the app and check the range at 8 pm and again the next morning. I was losing a lot more as summer arrived, so I ordered glass covers for the ceiling and it wasn't as bad. But something has changed recently, at about the time TezLab started prompting their Deep Sleep setting. Now I can go days w/o any range loss. I am still signed into EV-FW and I don't have any other apps loaded. And when I go to drive the car I often have TezLab's site in the car's browser. TezLab also posts a notification when it is trying to put the car to sleep, so if you DO get in the car at that point you will be aware that it will miss your activity if you don't open the app or the website.

It seems like a great solution. If I never want another app this economy makes me very happy. Hopefully any cool features others adopt will make it to TezLab soon enough. The price is sure right, my privacy!

 

[insaneoctane]

Well I'm beginning to think my range loss is not actually vampire loss in the conventional sense.... I think my ~15 mile range loss is almost entirely due to thermal management. I'm fairly certain that the range loss occurs within the first hour of arriving at work. While the end result is still 15 miles lost at work, I don't think it's 1.5 MPH, but rather 15 miles in one hour and then normal vampire loses throughout the day. I'm changing my logging routine to record the car data for the hour after I arrive. I'm going to keep the car awake to log this for a few days to see just how quickly the range drops to confirm our deny my suspicion. If you care about this topic stay tuned. Has anyone else seen this?

 

[darth_vad3r]

Well I'm beginning to think my range loss is not actually vampire loss in the conventional sense.... I think my ~15 mile range loss is almost entirely due to thermal management. I'm fairly certain that the range loss occurs within the first hour of arriving at work. While the end result is still 15 miles lost at work, I don't think it's 1.5 MPH, but rather 15 miles in one hour and then normal vampire loses throughout the day. I'm changing my logging routine to record the car data for the hour after I arrive. I'm going to keep the car awake to log this for a few days to see just how quickly the range drops to confirm our deny my suspicion. If you care about this topic stay tuned. Has anyone else seen this?

How long is your commute (time) ... if it gets really hot on a long drive in hot and sunny SoCal, then ya ... I could see your theory being valid.

Staying tuned.

The staying awake for an hour part should cost you between 1 and 2 miles, no more, just for the car being on. So if you see 15, there’s 13 extra going somewhere.

Some of it can also be recalibration as the battery cools and the BMS takes more accurate readings.

Could be a combination of both.

 

[woodisgood]

Yeah we're seeing this too and yes, I agree it's some kind of thermal management, probably battery cooling. I'm seeing consumption while parked tacked onto the car's energy graph as a huge peak. I have cabin overheat on though, but at some point in the last few months the car started using A LOT more energy than cabin overheat was using previously, temperatures similar.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Yeah we're seeing this too and yes, I agree it's some kind of thermal management, probably battery cooling. I'm seeing consumption while parked tacked onto the car's energy graph as a huge peak. I have cabin overheat on though, but at some point in the last few months the car started using A LOT more energy than cabin overheat was using previously, temperatures similar.

Which energy graph? I thought those consumption ones stop when parked and in “P”. Or do you mean the trip one and you see a drop not a peak? say if you park for an hour in the middle of a trip.

 

[woodisgood]

Which energy graph? I thought those consumption ones stop when parked and in “P”. Or do you mean the trip one and you see a drop not a peak? say if you park for an hour in the middle of a trip.

So I'll document this a bit more when I have a chance, and I need to eliminate some confounders.

Basically, I drove about 30 miles, had an efficiency at end of drive of 195 wh/mi (since last charge). My consumption graph looked great, estimating well over 300 mi given the last 15 mi of driving (car's range said 220ish). Car sat in sun for 8 hours, cabin overheat on. Got back in and wh/mi from "last charge" was 225. After driving for another 20 mi, during which wh/mi of the drive was 215 as reported on the "since 3pm" card, avg wh/mi on the consumption graph was showing 240 for the last 30 mi. There was a very large and broad peak (it extended off the top of the graph) of consumption corresponding to the last ~5 miles of my first drive.

I'll try to snap photos and better document...

 

[darth_vad3r]

So I'll document this a bit more when I have a chance, and I need to eliminate some confounders.

Basically, I drove about 30 miles, had an efficiency at end of drive of 195 wh/mi (since last charge). My consumption graph looked great, estimating well over 300 mi given the last 15 mi of driving (car's range said 220ish). Car sat in sun for 8 hours, cabin overheat on. Got back in and wh/mi from "last charge" was 225. After driving for another 20 mi, during which wh/mi of the drive was 215 as reported on the "since 3pm" card, avg wh/mi on the consumption graph was showing 240 for the last 30 mi. There was a very large and broad peak (it extended off the top of the graph) of consumption corresponding to the last ~5 miles of my first drive.

I'll try to snap photos and better document...

Interesting. Was this recently and do you recall what software version?

I wonder if they’ve change something... or maybe I’ve just never looked that closely at the energy graph after a cabin overheat session.

 

[woodisgood]

@darth_vad3r
This was two days ago, on 2019.32. It's possible there has been a change and cabin overheat will show up in consumption. I need to turn it off to get to the bottom of the increased drain, but as I mentioned above, there has been an increase in drain during the day when the car is parked in the sun. Cabin overheat used to consume no more than 0.5-1mph in the sun in ~90 degree weather. That is now 2+mph. In my case, it could be that cabin overheat now consumes more power than before for some reason, or that cabin overheat is continuing to draw the same power and there's something else causing the drain, as OP is surmising.

Sentry off for all of this, by the way, and I don't use any data loggers.

 

[darth_vad3r]

@darth_vad3r
This was two days ago, on 2019.32. It's possible there has been a change and cabin overheat will show up in consumption. I need to turn it off to get to the bottom of the increased drain, but as I mentioned above, there has been an increase in drain during the day when the car is parked in the sun. Cabin overheat used to consume no more than 0.5-1mph in the sun in ~90 degree weather. That is now 2+mph. In my case, it could be that cabin overheat now consumes more power than before for some reason, or that cabin overheat is continuing to draw the same power and there's something else causing the drain, as OP is surmising.

Sentry off for all of this, by the way, and I don't use any data loggers.

Could it be that you used to have COP set to no A/C and for some reason after the update it is set to “on” and is now using A/C? I don’t think this setting is linked to profiles? Might check that too though.