WA EV mileage tax

[walla2]

So Washington State, the purported land of climate change awareness, is once again seeking higher than gas tax fees on EVs.

The new proposal is 2.5 cents per mile. That is equivalent tax to a 25 mpg vehicle roughly and it would be cheaper taxwise to driveany gas SUVs.

Lawmakers weigh pay-per-mile tax for electric cars in Washington

The proposed tax is a part of a long-term transition away from the state's gas tax as more residents turn to electric vehicles.

www.king5.com

This is in addition to the annual EV taxes already of $225 plus standard registration fees plus an increased weight fee due to the batteries.

Some new rebates are being proposed but they don't apply to most of the people considering EVs. This state continues to be backwards thinking with regards to climate change with the early elimination of EV exemptions, the elimination of solar credits, and these ever increasing taxes / fees on green vehicles.

Contact your Congressperson. It's our only hope in WA state of avoiding yet another higher than gas tax charge in addition to our already inflated EV fees.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

So Washington State, the purported land of climate change awareness, is once again seeking higher than gas tax fees on EVs.

The new proposal is 2.5 cents per mile. That is equivalent tax to a 25 mpg vehicle roughly and it would be cheaper taxwise to driveany gas SUVs.

Lawmakers weigh pay-per-mile tax for electric cars in Washington

The proposed tax is a part of a long-term transition away from the state's gas tax as more residents turn to electric vehicles.

www.king5.com

This is in addition to the annual EV taxes already of $225 plus standard registration fees plus an increased weight fee due to the batteries.

Some new rebates are being proposed but they don't apply to most of the people considering EVs. This state continues to be backwards thinking with regards to climate change with the early elimination of EV exemptions, the elimination of solar credits, and these ever increasing taxes / fees on green vehicles.

Contact your Congressperson. It's our only hope in WA state of avoiding yet another higher than gas tax charge in addition to our already inflated EV fees.

Is it additional? It reads like it would replace the flat fee that act as substitution for gas taxes. It wouldn't replace the "charging station fund" fee/tax.

The plan would ultimately be to replace the gas tax with a per-mile fee, which would be the same for all light vehicles.

 

[MidnightTerror]

I am curious how they would be able to tell where you drove. If you did a road trip into different states they shouldn't be able to collect on it.

 

[walla2]

Is it additional? It reads like it would replace the flat fee that act as substitution for gas taxes. It wouldn't replace the "charging station fund" fee/tax.

The plan would ultimately be to replace the gas tax with a per-mile fee, which would be the same for all light vehicles.

The newest $75 tax bonus EV twx is supposed to go away but the bonus weight and original $150 is here to stay.

The taxes include miles on electric motorcycles that currently pay $225 over the annual registration which is a lot of motorcycle gas...

None of this makes sense. I say if this is the law, drop the gas tax and charge everyone for miles. Targeting EVs alone with super high fees won't help the state, the country, or the world.

My EVs will likely be grandfathered out but still not a fan of this EV only penalty.

Final point, Washington State is trying to eliminate gas cars earlier than any state or nation has announced. So higher transportation costs for everyone and those that can't afford big city rents will pay more and more and more.

 

[walla2]

I am curious how they would be able to tell where you drove. If you did a road trip into different states they shouldn't be able to collect on it.

The proposed gps trackers and phone apps will follow your every movement and report back to the state. If you decline tracking, you pay every mile regardless of where they are driven. Rural customers will fit the biggest disproportionate portion of the tax due to the intrinsically less dense regions with poor infrastructure since most of the state's money is spent in King county: $8+ billion of the $11.8 billion dollar 2021-2023 transportation budget.

 

[muzhik]

Seems like WA following CA in all the stupid crap...

 

[Corndart]

Hyperbolic statements, ad hominem attacks on Inslee, and raging against the left aside, you're missing some key details from the proposal, methinks.

1) Its capped at $225 / year, meaning you will pay no more than this, irrespective of how many miles you actually drive.

"In July of 2025, all new electric vehicles and at least 500 vehicles in the state fleet must switch to the road usage charge, which will be a $0.025 per mile charge. Many of the EV fees normally paid would be waived. Current EV owners can also opt-in at their renewal. New EV owners would pay no more than $225 a year, which is what they would normally pay in fees. Voluntary participants would only pay $175 a year, which is less than they would normally pay in fees."

Pay-per-mile system gets first House hearing in Washington

Washington's transition from a gas tax to pay-per-mile takes another step Thursday, as the legislature is set to hear a bill on setting up the system.

mynorthwest.com

2) re: "the rest of the state is funding King County" - that's partial nonsense...unless you live in Snohomish and Pierce. The second and third highest GDP and populated counties in WA State (Snohomish and Pierce) received less in transportation dollars than taxes they sent in 2014-2019. I could not find a comparable more recent study. Have a look at pages 8 and 9:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/CountybyCountyReturnPerDollarPerCitizen2019.pdf

3) "leader of the green movement" is not promoting EV friendly legislation. Also nonsense. perhaps you missed "Mao Inslee"(s) tucking in what effectively mirrors the BBB language for a point of sale BEV incentive. This is 300,000 miles worth of the $.025 / mile per mileage tax, front loaded, and in your pocket.

"The Department of Commerce will oversee the rebate program for the purchasing or leasing of new or used electric vehicles. The rebate amount will vary by vehicle type and the manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP). Rebates will be available for EVs with an MSRP under $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for vans, SUVs and pickup trucks. The standard rebates for new and used electric vehicles are: y $7,500 for new battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) y $5,000 for used BEVs and FCEVs y $1,000 for zero-emission motorcycles and e-bikes These basic rebates will be available to people who earn under $250,000 per year as a single-tax filer, or under $500,000 per year for joint-filer households."

Highlights of Gov. Inslee's proposed 2022 budget | Office of Financial Management

[animate type="fadeInDown"] Washington’s COVID-19 health crisis will soon enter its third year, and the pandemic continues to strain our schools, health care systems and some sectors of our economy. Overall, however, our economy has held up well and state revenue collections have grown steadily...

ofm.wa.gov

 

[Deleted member 205258]

Seems like WA following CA in all the stupid crap...

Every time California or Washington came up with a new tax---Hawaii would jump on it, was painful. was a couple grand for 2 EV's, yet the roads are still the worst in the world.

 

[Deleted member 205258]

The newest $75 tax bonus EV twx is supposed to go away but the bonus weight and original $150 is here to stay.

The taxes include miles on electric motorcycles that currently pay $225 over the annual registration which is a lot of motorcycle gas...

None of this makes sense. I say if this is the law, drop the gas tax and charge everyone for miles. Targeting EVs alone with super high fees won't help the state, the country, or the world.

My EVs will likely be grandfathered out but still not a fan of this EV only penalty.

Final point, Washington State is trying to eliminate gas cars earlier than any state or nation has announced. So higher transportation costs for everyone and those that can't afford big city rents will pay more and more and more.

I'm hoping for this as well---cause one is a 2012, but I think there's a bunch of listen to what I say not what I do...

 

[Jedibryan]

Hyperbolic statements, ad hominem attacks on Inslee, and raging against the left aside, you're missing some key details from the proposal, methinks.

1) Its capped at $225 / year, meaning you will pay no more than this, irrespective of how many miles you actually drive.

"In July of 2025, all new electric vehicles and at least 500 vehicles in the state fleet must switch to the road usage charge, which will be a $0.025 per mile charge. Many of the EV fees normally paid would be waived. Current EV owners can also opt-in at their renewal. New EV owners would pay no more than $225 a year, which is what they would normally pay in fees. Voluntary participants would only pay $175 a year, which is less than they would normally pay in fees."

Pay-per-mile system gets first House hearing in Washington

Washington's transition from a gas tax to pay-per-mile takes another step Thursday, as the legislature is set to hear a bill on setting up the system.

mynorthwest.com

2) re: "the rest of the state is funding King County" - that's partial nonsense...unless you live in Snohomish and Pierce. The second and third highest GDP and populated counties in WA State (Snohomish and Pierce) received less in transportation dollars than taxes they sent in 2014-2019. I could not find a comparable more recent study. Have a look at pages 8 and 9:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/CountybyCountyReturnPerDollarPerCitizen2019.pdf

3) "leader of the green movement" is not promoting EV friendly legislation. Also nonsense. perhaps you missed "Mao Inslee"(s) tucking in what effectively mirrors the BBB language for a point of sale BEV incentive. This is 300,000 miles worth of the $.025 / mile per mileage tax, front loaded, and in your pocket.

"The Department of Commerce will oversee the rebate program for the purchasing or leasing of new or used electric vehicles. The rebate amount will vary by vehicle type and the manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP). Rebates will be available for EVs with an MSRP under $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for vans, SUVs and pickup trucks. The standard rebates for new and used electric vehicles are: y $7,500 for new battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) y $5,000 for used BEVs and FCEVs y $1,000 for zero-emission motorcycles and e-bikes These basic rebates will be available to people who earn under $250,000 per year as a single-tax filer, or under $500,000 per year for joint-filer households."

Highlights of Gov. Inslee's proposed 2022 budget | Office of Financial Management

[animate type="fadeInDown"] Washington’s COVID-19 health crisis will soon enter its third year, and the pandemic continues to strain our schools, health care systems and some sectors of our economy. Overall, however, our economy has held up well and state revenue collections have grown steadily...

ofm.wa.gov

It's really refreshing to see a reply filled with facts and references as opposed to biased, political garbage (usually with poor grammar as well).

I'm not sure how I feel about a pay per mile system, and I think no one is quite sure the best way to ensure EVs pay their fair share for roads and transportation costs. That being said, all these proposals are still in very early stages, which means us EV owners have plenty of time to reach out to our politicians, become involved with organizations lobbying for our desires, and ensure we're a part of the solution.

 

[Corndart]

It's really refreshing to see a reply filled with facts and references as opposed to biased, political garbage (usually with poor grammar as well).

I'm not sure how I feel about a pay per mile system, and I think no one is quite sure the best way to ensure EVs pay their fair share for roads and transportation costs. That being said, all these proposals are still in very early stages, which means us EV owners have plenty of time to reach out to our politicians, become involved with organizations lobbying for our desires, and ensure we're a part of the solution.

Thanks. Roughly 20 mins of doing a little investigation revealed a far more nuanced state of affairs. Half our state transportation budget is funded on gasoline tax, so more fuel efficient and EV's means we'll have to find a different way to collect. Pay for use seems the most equitable, where you decide which mode (ICE/hybrid/PHEV/full EV) of transportation works best for you. It preserves individual choice but also gives a healthy incentive to go EV.

Unfortunately social media has provided a platform and engagement model predicated on incendiary claims as the baseline form of discourse, particularly political, really on all sides of the political spectrum. Appreciate OP bringing up the topic, but next time bring the full facts, critical thinking skills, and leave the nonsense out of it.

And thanks for the thumbs down, I use it to tune my ignore filter, which works well here.

 

[PLUS EV]

Every time California or Washington came up with a new tax---Hawaii would jump on it, was painful. was a couple grand for 2 EV's, yet the roads are still the worst in the world.

Wait a minute. Where again are the "worst roads in the world?"

 

[walla2]

Hyperbolic statements, ad hominem attacks on Inslee, and raging against the left aside, you're missing some key details from the proposal, methinks.\

Where is the "left raging" or "ad hominem attacks" in my posts? Inslee ran for president on the green platform. This state isn't great at green as my post indicates. It current charges higher fees for EV's than any state in the United States and also killed all solar incentives years ago. All of this occurred under Inslee's reign. So it isn't an ad hominem if it's just a fact. In addition, I make no mention of Inslee's appearance, motives, or character, only his hipocrisy.

1) Its capped at $225 / year, meaning you will pay no more than this, irrespective of how many miles you actually drive.

The legislation as you admit is a work in progress. The powers that be will likely modify this to max out taxes. The minute this starts, the taxes will increase further and further and the caps will go away if they aren't removed in discussions prior to passage. Look at the last set of EV laws, and you will see the cross outs done at the last minute that made the fees go to $225 already and failed to exempt electric motorcycles.

"In July of 2025, all new electric vehicles and at least 500 vehicles in the state fleet must switch to the road usage charge, which will be a $0.025 per mile charge. Many of the EV fees normally paid would be waived. Current EV owners can also opt-in at their renewal. New EV owners would pay no more than $225 a year, which is what they would normally pay in fees. Voluntary participants would only pay $175 a year, which is less than they would normally pay in fees."

You ignore the added weight tax and the fact that $225 in fees is actually a lot of gasoline tax. Those fees don't include registration. We are driving 100 MPGe EV vehicles that are taxed at 20-25 mpg vehicles. What is okay about paying less than we normally pay if it is more than we are supposed to be paying and more than what gasoline cars pay?

2) re: "the rest of the state is funding King County" - that's partial nonsense...unless you live in Snohomish and Pierce. The second and third highest GDP and populated counties in WA State (Snohomish and Pierce) received less in transportation dollars than taxes they sent in 2014-2019. I could not find a comparable more recent study. Have a look at pages 8 and 9:

King county's published transportation budget is over $4 billion per year for the last several years. The entire state budget for transportation from 2021-2023 is $11.8 billion. "Methinks" the report you referrenced may be skewed by selection and sampling biases. It's an paper about per capita spending. The reality is some of those people in the Seattle region pay $0 in gas or transportation taxes by using mass transit (paid for by everyone else), but they are included as the under-reimbursed population in the published dollar per capita numbers. You also have conveniently ignore that people that live in rural areas have to drive farther for groceries, jobs, shopping, travel, etc. and don't have access to instantly available ubers, mass transit, and Whole foods delivery services to meet their transporation and delivery needs.

"The Department of Commerce will oversee the rebate program for the purchasing or leasing of new or used electric vehicles. The rebate amount will vary by vehicle type and the manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP). Rebates will be available for EVs with an MSRP under $55,000 for sedans and $80,000 for vans, SUVs and pickup trucks. The standard rebates for new and used electric vehicles are: y $7,500 for new battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) y $5,000 for used BEVs and FCEVs y $1,000 for zero-emission motorcycles and e-bikes These basic rebates will be available to people who earn under $250,000 per year as a single-tax filer, or under $500,000 per year for joint-filer households."

Highlights of Gov. Inslee's proposed 2022 budget | Office of Financial Management

[animate type="fadeInDown"] Washington’s COVID-19 health crisis will soon enter its third year, and the pandemic continues to strain our schools, health care systems and some sectors of our economy. Overall, however, our economy has held up well and state revenue collections have grown steadily...

ofm.wa.gov

Those rebates aren't approved and may not be approved as you have quoted above. Washington State did away with EV rebates quickly and I suspect they will modify these rules before they move forward. They will have limits placed on them.

Additionally, as someone else pointed out, the EV infrastructure never happened here. We are woefully unprepared to move to EV's statewide for all applications. Rural communities don't and won't have access to infrastructure because the government has failed to do what it was supposed to do with the funds they already took in.

Finally, I think attacking anyone that disagrees with you as foolish, illiterate, and nonsensical is a weak position to take. I've been involved in EV's since 2010 and have seen a lot of harmful things happen in this state that seem to be favored by the gasoline / car dealer lobby and have little to do with climate goals. Look at the SB 5444 thread on TMC to see more about this in its previous form from 2021. This isn't a left / right issue. It's a climate issue for all of us and imposing EV only fees at high rates is something we should try to stop. The political world would prefer to have us picking at each other instead of at the issues or at their lack of handling them.

 

[acarney]

I would like a nice audit of where the funds collected went. I thought I heard the state did invest in a few EV chargers but at some crazy cost (like $60k to $100k or something for only 1 to 3 DC plugs).

I really thought we would see a handful each year showing up at highway rest stops or state parks. Places further off the normal route that likely wouldn't generate any revenue for a commercial company but could be a huge help for those people traveling to more remote areas, state parks, or towing up to camp grounds in the summer.

 

[Corndart]

Where is the "left raging" or "ad hominem attacks" in my posts? Inslee ran for president on the green platform. This state isn't great at green as my post indicates. It current charges higher fees for EV's than any state in the United States and also killed all solar incentives years ago. All of this occurred under Inslee's reign. So it isn't an ad hominem if it's just a fact. In addition, I make no mention of Inslee's appearance, motives, or character, only his hipocrisy.


The legislation as you admit is a work in progress. The powers that be will likely modify this to max out taxes. The minute this starts, the taxes will increase further and further and the caps will go away if they aren't removed in discussions prior to passage. Look at the last set of EV laws, and you will see the cross outs done at the last minute that made the fees go to $225 already and failed to exempt electric motorcycles.


You ignore the added weight tax and the fact that $225 in fees is actually a lot of gasoline tax. Those fees don't include registration. We are driving 100 MPGe EV vehicles that are taxed at 20-25 mpg vehicles. What is okay about paying less than we normally pay if it is more than we are supposed to be paying and more than what gasoline cars pay?


King county's published transportation budget is over $4 billion per year for the last several years. The entire state budget for transportation from 2021-2023 is $11.8 billion. "Methinks" the report you referrenced may be skewed by selection and sampling biases. It's an paper about per capita spending. The reality is some of those people in the Seattle region pay $0 in gas or transportation taxes by using mass transit (paid for by everyone else), but they are included as the under-reimbursed population in the published dollar per capita numbers. You also have conveniently ignore that people that live in rural areas have to drive farther for groceries, jobs, shopping, travel, etc. and don't have access to instantly available ubers, mass transit, and Whole foods delivery services to meet their transporation and delivery needs.


Those rebates aren't approved and may not be approved as you have quoted above. Washington State did away with EV rebates quickly and I suspect they will modify these rules before they move forward. They will have limits placed on them.

Additionally, as someone else pointed out, the EV infrastructure never happened here. We are woefully unprepared to move to EV's statewide for all applications. Rural communities don't and won't have access to infrastructure because the government has failed to do what it was supposed to do with the funds they already took in.

Finally, I think attacking anyone that disagrees with you as foolish, illiterate, and nonsensical is a weak position to take. I've been involved in EV's since 2010 and have seen a lot of harmful things happen in this state that seem to be favored by the gasoline / car dealer lobby and have little to do with climate goals. Look at the SB 5444 thread on TMC to see more about this in its previous form from 2021. This isn't a left / right issue. It's a climate issue for all of us and imposing EV only fees at high rates is something we should try to stop. The political world would prefer to have us picking at each other instead of at the issues or at their lack of handling them.

Thoughtful reply, notice that I didn't quote you or single anyone out in particular regarding tone and tenor, nor call them "illiterate nonsensical" or "foolish". Focusing on the facts in the proposal and thinking about how it's being considered leads me to the conclusion that it's not unreasonable, in aggregate, and that our legislators are trying to find a path forward.

Fair point regarding the weight tax (which is a registration fee component). However my overarching and last comment still stands - if the 7500 for new or 5000 for used EV incentive sticks, that will more than pay for any licensing / weight / road use tax, for the lifetime of most peoples car ownership.

 

[Deleted member 205258]

ALL- had the pleasure of speaking with Kitsap council members today, If you live in WA, I'm sure you seen "THE TRANSPORTATION BUDGET", there is "ZERO" for electric vehicles. I asked a couple questions, and even thought there are state wide elected/appointed/ I work here people that own EV's we are getting nothing, they said there was a minute interest, but not enough, so it's all going to other projects. I'm still doing a lot of work to get chargers/more chargers on the military bases. a few of us have raised money to get some ENEL/juicewerks units. so...yea..
@walla2 , I understand you post originally was towards how we are going to pay for milage, what I got out of todays chat was, there's a plan to tax, just not how it's getting tracked, there is a lot of pushback on a GPS for privacy reasons, but since most cars are a rolling data center, it's not like that info can't be collected. So yea, I really wish we could organize better, all EV owners cause we drive this type of vehicle for what ever reasons, but the same prime mover. Friday I got a meeting with some senior military officials and they said 2 reps are going to be there, don't know if they will be state or reps, as in SOMEONE. if anyone has questions they want asked please let me know. I give this post about 4 hours before it gets reported and removed cause it has words associated with politics.

V/R

Stephen

 

[walla2]

Even Inslee is now against this road use tax combined with the proposed continuance of fees. Perhaps he comes to TMC: northwest?

Even Gov. Inslee doesn't like the state's proposed road usage charge bill

The latest Road Usage Charge bill had its first hearing before the state House Transportation Committee last week, and there was some surprising testimony.

www.google.com