Waymo brings in $2.25 billion from outside investors, Alphabet

[MP3Mike]

What does that even mean in Waymo terms?

With Tesla we know once it is available and you paid for FSD you can verify it independently to your heart's delight. But with Waymo what would them "getting there in 1-3 years" look like?

More locked down routes in more cities?
More cities but not locked down routes?

How does one verify Waymo's claims about its fleet?

It can't be locked down routes, as he said "total robotaxi, no driver, anywhere in the US, coast to coast". So you have to be able to get in a Waymo anywhere in the US and be able to have it drive you anywhere else in the US.

So if you can't get in a Waymo in Chandler and have it take you to Disney World they haven't gotten there yet.

 

[diplomat33]

What does that even mean in Waymo terms?

With Tesla we know once it is available and you paid for FSD you can verify it independently to your heart's delight. But with Waymo what would them "getting there in 1-3 years" look like?

More locked down routes in more cities?
More cities but not locked down routes?

How does one verify Waymo's claims about its fleet?

Is the 1-3 years how long you think it will take Waymo to perform the required HD mapping of the entire US? (Which of course will never be done.)

No. I mean 1-3 years for Waymo to get autonomous driving to a point where their safety data says that it is safe to deploy without a driver anywhere in the US.

 

[mikes_fsd]

I mean 1-3 years for Waymo to get autonomous driving to a point where their safety data says that it is safe to deploy without a driver anywhere in the US.

So 1-3 years for Google to tell us to trust them and to wait for them to begin roll out of what? a fleet? a package for car manufacturers? or guidelines with recommended hardware?

 

[MP3Mike]

No. I mean 1-3 years for Waymo to get autonomous driving to a point where their safety data says that it is safe to deploy without a driver anywhere in the US.

Well that isn't what you said. I don't give a crap what their safety data says. They haven't achieved autonomous driving until anyone can use it to get from where they are to where they want to go. (Which is essentially what you said.)

 

[diplomat33]

Well that isn't what you said. I don't give a crap what their safety data says. They haven't achieved autonomous driving until anyone can use it to get from where they are to where they want to go. (Which is essentially what you said.)

So Waymo could show data that they've covered the entire US and done 10 billion miles without a disengagement and it still would not count as a "real autonomous driving" until you can buy one? That is an absurd metric.

 

[mikes_fsd]

it still would not count as a "real autonomous driving" until you can buy one

Not buy one, but hop into one whenever wherever and get from point a to point b of your choosing.

 

[MP3Mike]

So Waymo could show data that they've covered the entire US and done 10 billion miles without a disengagement and it still would not count as a "real autonomous driving" until you can buy one? That is an absurd metric.

I never said that you had to be able to buy one. But if you can't use it then no they haven't achieved "real autonomous driving".

 

[diplomat33]

I never said that you had to be able to buy one. But if can't use it then no they haven't achieved "real autonomous driving".

I define "real autonomous driving" as a car that can actually self-drive without a driver. You seem to define it as only if you can personally experience the self-driving yourself. I think that's silly. Just because you can't use it, does not mean the technology is not real.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Just because you can't use it, does not mean the technology is not real.

That is the silliest statement I've read from you in all of your silly statements..

There is no point in solving the self-driving issue if no one can (or only select few can) use it. And being dictated when and how to use it is not self-driving or autonomous in any way.

 

[diplomat33]

That is the silliest statement I've read from you in all of your silly statements..

There is no point in solving the self-driving issue if no one can (or only select few can) use it. And being dictated when and how to use it is not self-driving or autonomous in any way.

Sure, only a small number of people right now can use Waymo but that number will get bigger. it won't stay small forever. Right now, ZERO people can use a Tesla autonomous car since Autopilot is not autonomous yet.

 

[diplomat33]

@mspisars You are the one being silly. Waymo has a real robotaxis operating in some areas, but because you can't use it, it's somehow not "real autonomous driving" but Tesla which has ZERO autonomous driving, in your mind does have "real autonomous driving" because you believe their approach will make your car a robotaxi as soon as they solve camera vision?

 

[MP3Mike]

@mspisars You are the one being silly. Waymo has a real robotaxis operating in some areas, but because you can't use it, it's somehow not "real autonomous driving" but Tesla which has ZERO autonomous driving, in your mind does have "real autonomous driving" because you believe their approach will make your car a robotaxi as soon as they solve camera vision?

Even by your definition Waymo hasn't achieved "real autonomous driving" yet.

 

[diplomat33]

Even by your definition Waymo hasn't achieved "real autonomous driving" yet.

They have a real robotaxi that can operate without a driver on public roads.

 

[mikes_fsd]

They have a real robotaxi that can operate without a driver on public roads.

On predefined routes and specific city...
Disney world has the same thing and more people get to use it.

 

[diplomat33]

On predefined routes and specific city...
Disney world has the same thing and more people get to use it.

Wrong. I already explained this to you. Waymo can operate everywhere on public roads. They are only deployed to certain areas right now because Waymo is doing a cautious roll-out, making sure their robotaxis are safe in each area before removing the driver.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Wrong

So, basically it's just whatever the company says (person says) ... there's no need for real proof or ability to independently verify the claims...

You can put a car (with fancy lasers) on a defined path in a city and then claim to be done with self-driving... Did I get that right? Oh, sprinkle a few demo videos!! << very important.

Sounds like a fantastic self-driving future right there!

 

[diplomat33]

So, basically it's just whatever the company says (person says) ... there's no need for real proof or ability to independently verify the claims...

You can put a car (with fancy lasers) on a defined path in a city and then claim to be done with self-driving... Did I get that right? Oh, sprinkle a few demo videos!! << very important.

Sounds like a fantastic self-driving future right there!

Sorry but you sound quite silly. Waymo has provided plenty of independent proof of what they have. You just don't accept it.

Second, Waymo cars are a lot more than just fancy lasers on a predefined path. And no, they don't claim to be done with self-driving. I never said that they were done.

With no autonomous driving at all, you take a few nice presentations on Autonomy Day and a couple easy demos and claim that Tesla's approach will work and give us L5 autonomy just as soon as they finish solving camera vision.

 

[Thp3]

The fundamental issue many are dancing around is: What is the cost in gear and watts per mile of the car’s autonomous system?

That is likely one of the key Tesla advantages, $7k for software, about $3k for HW3 computer, maybe $1 k for eight cameras and four ultrasonic sensors and minimal watts to use the system (20-40 watts?)

How pricy are the other systems especially Waymo? How many watts are consumed with the sensors and computer(s)? Lidar used to be $70 k and used 20-50 watts just for one sensor. Is this why Waymo and others are not expanding? It costs too much in energy and equipment?

 

[mikes_fsd]

With no autonomous driving at all, you take a few nice presentations on Autonomy Day and a couple easy demos and claim that Tesla's approach will work and give us L5 autonomy just as soon as they finish solving camera vision.

Not my claim that is Tesla's claim, I just put my money in support of that claim.

 

[mikes_fsd]

HW3 computer and minimal watts to use the system (20-40 watts?)

I thought that on Autonomy Day they said it is under 200 watts (I wouldn't go much further below 200 watts)

Well... this article says 72 Watts (72W, vs. 57W for old 2.5 computer) Tesla’s new self-driving chip is here, and this is your best look yet