Whats your opinion on what Tesla is doing for the country.

[FlyF4]

Funny, I didn't even notice this was a ten-year-old thread until I got to the mention of the Volkswagen TDI. Thought it was tongue in cheek for a while there!
,

Actually, I didn't notice either that it was a 10 year old thread until now. So, here we are 10 years later and it is still wishful thinking. Unfortunately ICE vehicles will be in use for a long time to come by certain sectors of the market. Tesla can't save the world just yet

 

[AMPd]

Funny, I didn't even notice this was a ten-year-old thread until I got to the mention of the Volkswagen TDI. Thought it was tongue in cheek for a while there!

I think we're pretty well on the way, a couple more years and I think ICE cars will be considered relics even in the mainstream media. I'm amazed how many people don't even know Tesla's current valuation. I just gave one of my favorite Gearheads a chance to drive the car. He couldn't stop accelerating! His comment was, "wow",

You're funny.
You realize gasoline consumption has recently set a record?
It's gonna take a lot more than a couple years before ICE cars are relics.

 

[Akikiki]

Merely Wonderful.

 

[henderrj]

You're funny.
You realize gasoline consumption has recently set a record?
It's gonna take a lot more than a couple years before ICE cars are relics.

True, I meant relics in perception - "It's just a gas vehicle, not electric, but not bad". That is going to be a more prevalent statement in just a few years. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is the dominant thought in 2020.

 

[AMPd]

True, I meant relics in perception - "It's just a gas vehicle, not electric, but not bad". That is going to be a more prevalent statement in just a few years. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is the dominant thought in 2020.

Oh I misunderstood.
I thought by relics you meant like a novelty item.
However I'm still having difficulty agreeing with you.
2020 is less than 3 years away, no major automaker is providing a true alternative to a model S or a model 3. Yeah the bolt is ok but it still looks like an ev, there aren't ev alternatives to all the vehicle classes
You only have one manufacturer working on upper and middle class electric car

But tesla alone won't make a large enough dent in the vehicle market by 2020

 

[jerry33]

Oh I misunderstood.
I thought by relics you meant like a novelty item.
However I'm still having difficulty agreeing with you.
2020 is less than 3 years away, no major automaker is providing a true alternative to a model S or a model 3. Yeah the bolt is ok but it still looks like an ev, there aren't ev alternatives to all the vehicle classes
You only have one manufacturer working on upper and middle class electric car

But tesla alone won't make a large enough dent in the vehicle market by 2020

While this is all true, if it weren't for Tesla and California, no vehicle manufacturer would even be considering EVs. The good news is that gas prices are on the rise and I expect to see Bush era prices before they are finished (as the same idiots are now in control). And once someone has had an EV, they are very unlikely to go back to an old fashioned car.

 

[henderrj]

Oh I misunderstood.
I thought by relics you meant like a novelty item.
However I'm still having difficulty agreeing with you.
2020 is less than 3 years away, no major automaker is providing a true alternative to a model S or a model 3. Yeah the bolt is ok but it still looks like an ev, there aren't ev alternatives to all the vehicle classes
You only have one manufacturer working on upper and middle class electric car

But tesla alone won't make a large enough dent in the vehicle market by 2020

I think both Daimler and Volkswagen will have models shipping, or near to, by 2020. I've been a long time fan of Mercedes and I think there are a lot of Volkswagen fanatics as well. No, I think the excitement is going to hit us. And by us, I mean the general population. At least I sure hope I'm right!

 

[AMPd]

I think both Daimler and Volkswagen will have models shipping, or near to, by 2020. I've been a long time fan of Mercedes and I think there are a lot of Volkswagen fanatics as well. No, I think the excitement is going to hit us. And by us, I mean the general population. At least I sure hope I'm right!

It would be awesome if Mercedes can make an electric C and E class that has access to the supercharger network.
That would be a great step forward

 

[Festerfeet]

I thi

I think both Daimler and Volkswagen will have models shipping, or near to, by 2020. I've been a long time fan of Mercedes and I think there are a lot of Volkswagen fanatics as well. No, I think the excitement is going to hit us. And by us, I mean the general population. At least I sure hope I'm right!

I think you can add, Nissan, Volvo, Hiyundai, Renault and Jaguar to the list of longe range EVs to the list by 2020 of VW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. GM say they will build more on their new EV Platform. BYD, SAIC, Geely and then we await Lucid, Farady Future (maybe) and a number of other standalone companies around the world.

Some products will be better than others but it all adds to the momentum by providing awareness, choice and positive press.

This also increases the need for charging options in core markets and with Tesla showing what can be achieved by one relatively small company, there are less excuses for lack of progress.

I am sure the changeover will take longer than we want and will continue to meet resistance for some time but I am optimistic.

 

[Festerfeet]

I thi

I think both Daimler and Volkswagen will have models shipping, or near to, by 2020. I've been a long time fan of Mercedes and I think there are a lot of Volkswagen fanatics as well. No, I think the excitement is going to hit us. And by us, I mean the general population. At least I sure hope I'm right!

I think you can add, Nissan, Volvo, Hiyundai, Renault and Jaguar to the list of longe range EVs to the list by 2020 of VW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. GM say they will build more on their new EV Platform. BYD, SAIC, Geely and then we await Lucid, Farady Future (maybe) and a number of other standalone companies around the world.

Some products will be better than others but it all adds to the momentum by providing awareness, choice and positive press.

This also increases the need for charging options in core markets and with Tesla showing what can be achieved by one relatively small company, there are less excuses for lack of progress.

I am sure the changeover will take longer than we want and will continue to meet resistance for some time but I am optimistic.

 

[henderrj]

It would be awesome if Mercedes can make an electric C and E class that has access to the supercharger network.
That would be a great step forward

It would indeed! But I think there are two main reasons it wont. First, as much as I love the guy, Elon is not easy to work with! Second, the Tesla plug is pretty much maxed out on amperage. I think they have to redesign to get better than they hundred and thirty-five kilowatt that they have plans. Sure wish I could have talked them into our power docking port!

 

[Hrhkee]

A tremendous understated value. I wish I could help them do more.

 

[Vern Padgett]

I thi

I think you can add, Nissan, Volvo, Hiyundai, Renault and Jaguar to the list of longe range EVs to the list by 2020 of VW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. GM say they will build more on their new EV Platform. BYD, SAIC, Geely and then we await Lucid, Farady Future (maybe) and a number of other standalone companies around the world. I am sure the changeover will take longer than we want and will continue to meet resistance for some time but I am optimistic.

I'm wondering which Big Auto makers will be around then, in 2020.

Like looking at carriage makers in 1905 or 1910 and wondering which ones will be around when the Model T is out?

 

[Vern Padgett]

With all respect to GM, Ford, and Chrysler, and whomever else, are they looking to build sustainable transportation for the future-- or are they looking to suck the revenue available for as long as they can before Tesla destroys their market.

Thoughts? Big Auto, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar-- soon to be, or already are, dinosaurs of the past?

 

[AMPd]

With all respect to GM, Ford, and Chrysler, and whomever else, are they looking to build sustainable transportation for the future-- or are they looking to suck the revenue available for as long as they can before Tesla destroys their market.

Thoughts? Big Auto, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar-- soon to be, or already are, dinosaurs of the past?

Big sugar?

Are people no longer going to consume sugar?

 

[jbcarioca]

While this is all true, if it weren't for Tesla and California, no vehicle manufacturer would even be considering EVs. The good news is that gas prices are on the rise and I expect to see Bush era prices before they are finished (as the same idiots are now in control). And once someone has had an EV, they are very unlikely to go back to an old fashioned car.

Bluntly, California, while important, is not the motive force for EV development. There are two, China and the EU. Both are far more important than California. All EU manufacturers have very tough regulatory goals that cannot be met without substantial ZEV,.

...so GM sold Opel/Vauxhall largely because they had the worst fuel economy and EV prospects among European builders and had lost money for years;
...FiatChrysler is eagerly looking for someone, anyone, to buy in because they aren't investing enough to meet these targets on their own;
...China has adopted very aggressive emissions reduction goals, and is by far the largest BEV market in the world.

California is very important in North American context. However, the only serious US player is Tesla. GM is importing technology from Korea, from LG and their own GM Korea. Nothing real from FiarChrysler or Ford so far.
I do not mean to be argumentative but I do think it is important to understand that the US and NA are not leaders in BEV nor are the impetus for BEV technological development...except for Tesla.

 

[FloridaJohn]

Thoughts? Big Auto, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar-- soon to be, or already are, dinosaurs of the past?

I wouldn't be so quick to write off the tobacco companies.

U.S. Tobacco Industry Rebounds From Its Near-Death Experience

"The operating profits of U.S. tobacco manufacturers have grown 77% since 2006 to $18.4 billion in 2016, according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Research. Industry executives and analysts now figure the country generates more tobacco profits than any other market in the world outside China..."

 

[Vern Padgett]

Big sugar?
Are people no longer going to consume sugar?

Some time soon, when it loses its FDA rating as "generally regarded as safe." We Americans eat 130 pounds of it a year, and can maybe deal with half that, according to science writer Gary Taubes in his new book The Case Against Sugar. He documents our consumption of sugar as the cause of insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, obesity, and all the diseases of "Western Life."

 

[Tony8489]

Bluntly, California, while important, is not the motive force for EV development. There are two, China and the EU. Both are far more important than California. All EU manufacturers have very tough regulatory goals that cannot be met without substantial ZEV,.

...so GM sold Opel/Vauxhall largely because they had the worst fuel economy and EV prospects among European builders and had lost money for years;
...FiatChrysler is eagerly looking for someone, anyone, to buy in because they aren't investing enough to meet these targets on their own;
...China has adopted very aggressive emissions reduction goals, and is by far the largest BEV market in the world.

California is very important in North American context. However, the only serious US player is Tesla. GM is importing technology from Korea, from LG and their own GM Korea. Nothing real from FiarChrysler or Ford so far.
I do not mean to be argumentative but I do think it is important to understand that the US and NA are not leaders in BEV nor are the impetus for BEV technological development...except for Tesla.

+1

Widespread EV acceptance will come first in the EU. It's much easier for the consumers there:
1) Sky high gas prices, so the payback in lower operating costs comes much faster than here.
2) Compact driving distances. Their long distances aren't our long distances, so the added travel time for charging vs. filling up with gas is less of a factor.
3) Their home power is already 220, so cheaper to set up home charging.

China of course is more command and control;. If the government thinks it needs EV's to mitigate air pollution or oil imports they will force that to happen, at least to some degree.

As my favored hobby is skiing, I get the resistance to EV's in much of the US. We drive long distances into remote areas at high speed in cold weather. That's potentially 4 strikes against owning an EV. If I didn't live in California, I might not have a Tesla yet. 2+ weeks of my skiing every year is in Canada. Even in 2017 there's no sign of supercharger infrastructure being expanded along Hwy 3 in British Columbia near the US border, serving the "Powder Highway" areas. Long distances, low population density, long cold weather season all mitigate against wide EV acceptance in Canada.

 

[Festerfeet]

I can't see any of the big automakers disappearing by 2020 due to the rise of EV's but there are some that are certainly sticking their heads in the sand and will suffer badly because of it.