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2013 S85 vs 2016 S60D

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Yinn, Jan 31, 2017.

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  1. Yinn

    Yinn Member

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    With used prices of Model S' coming down, I know there are many who are shopping CPOs and Private sales as an entry point into a Tesla. Prior to purchasing, I did the same. On paper, the items are easy to find. Things like the center console, ui changes, etc., but what does this all mean in day to day living? What would we be missing?

    I ended up purchasing a 2016 S60D AP2, but recently got a 2013 S85 as a loaner and decided to write about the two. Credit to these posts going from a (2013 S85 to a 2016 S90D) and (S85 to S60) while I was shopping, my situation was the reverse. It's important to note that I kept my settings the same and drove it the same to keep as accurate of a comparison as possible. So how did it stack up?

    First Impressions Count
    It looks the same. Yes, it was refreshed, but approaching the car; it's the same. It wasn't until I opened the door that I remembered in the morning that I had a loaner. Once I remembered that, I backed off and decided to take a walk around to see what I thought. The car looked.....still the same. Yes, the nose is refreshed. I prefer the refresh look, but it still took a walk around the car to notice and remember it.

    Does it matter? Yes. Is it worth $20-30,000? That's not for my pocket book to decide.

    Dual Motors
    I live in a moderate climate in the Northeast, so we have a preference for dual motors. Unfortunately, the time we had the loaner it was cold but there was no slippery conditions to test the effectiveness with and without the dual motors.

    Battery Pack & Range
    The S85 achieved a 80% charge of 210 mi, a roughly 1% loss over 3-4 years. The S60D achieves a 80% charge of 175mi. Over the course of my normal daily routine (70 mi commute + lunch, errands, etc.,) this was not a noticeable difference for me. Neither required charging during the day. The consumption told a different story. Our S60D shows an average consumption of ~350wh/mi, whereas the S85 was averaging ~400wh/mi.

    Acceleration
    S60D does 0-60 in 5.2s. The 2013 S85 was rated for a 0-60 in 5.2s. So they should be the same. In day to day driving, there were no appreciable differences. But that probably doesn't excite you. So for your benefit, and your benefit alone, with no self serving desire, I mashed the go pedal.

    On paper, they should have been the same. From a dead stop, it did feel largely the same. However, from a roll of about 10mph and passing on the highway, the S85 felt significantly faster. On the S60D, after the initial torque rush, you can feel the car level off. With the S85, you can feel the car keep surging forward.

    Next Generation Seats
    Our S60D has the next generation seats made by Recaro (not the latest premium seats) The S85 had the original leather seats. The S60D is much more comfortable for my preference, and hugs better. The S85 seats felt more like seats out of a minivan, with minimal support.

    On the positive side, without larger bolsters, the S85 was easier to get in and out of. And while in pictures, they often do not look like they've held up well, the leather appeared to be in good condition. I suspect the side bolsters on my S60D will get worn out relatively quickly as we brush up against them every time we get in and out.

    Premium Upgrade Package
    On the ordering side, there's a lot of debate around this package. Especially as the prices continue to creep up. We did not purchase this on our S60D as we highly disliked the alcantra trim, and preferred not to have a power liftgate. The S85 came with the PUP (but no alcantra, which would have made a difference to me), and I got a chance to live with it.

    Initially, it has a bit of a wow/cool factor. As the door handles extend, the handles light down on the ground. It's neat, but ultimately it served no real purpose. The lighting is extremely dim and barely lights anything up.

    Once inside, you can tell leather does cover a good portion of the car. On a non-PUP in a 2016, you get synthetic materials (same materials that make up the ultra white leather seats) that cover the armrests, steering wheel, and side trim. The leather used in the PUP was a lot more pronounced in grains, and a lot harder in feel. Some of it was nice, the steering wheel in specific felt nicer in real leather. The rest of it was lost and melted away after I was done with my observations. They didn't add to detract from my ability to enjoy the car, nor did it give me any sense this was a more premium product that what I owned.

    The power liftgate. This is a YMMV. We hate power liftgates. We've had them in other cars, we dislike them. We didn't get it because we thought we would dislike it. My contempt for such a thing was validated as 30 seconds after parking, I had a full on fight with the power liftgate. I'm also pretty sure I lost that fight as my wife laughed at me in my frustration.

    So for your amusement... I went to the trunk to retrieve out things. The power liftgate takes over to enable a soft open. Our garage is low clearance. I quickly realized the hatch would hit the garage door and did not want to damage it. I attempted to stop it from opening all the way, but the door resisted. How much pressure do I put on it? Will it break the mechanism? TOO LATE! I gave it more pressure. Luckily the safety mechanisms caught on and stopped the door from opening. Unfortunately, the door decided to do a full reverse and close itself...I'm back to square one. This repeated several times... Finally, I admitted defeat. I played a game of - open the trunk, grab my things, trigger the safety close and finish pulling things out before it fully closed. My wife found it highly amusing. I was outsmarted by a power liftgate.

    Dash & UI
    The screens on the S85 were noticeably slower. The navigation in particular was the most noteworthy as rendering times took a bit longer. The graphics weren't as detailed either in the S85.

    The dashboard on the S85 though was appreciated. I do wish my S60D had the ability to provide an all in one speedometer, energy meter circle in the middle. While the S60D displays lane information on the dash instead, I find the original meters on the S85 more informative and useful than the lane display of my S60D. Ultimately, I think I should be visually seeing my lane and glancing down at the meter.

    AP & Sensor Hardware
    The S85 did not have autopilot. My S60D also does not have autopilot enabled, so this would be an even comparison. The hardware available on the two cars does make a difference though. Something as simple as the parking sensors, the S60D provides a very detailed cocoon of what is happening. I have learned to trust it tremendously. The older technology does not provide that level of detail, but instead shows a bar on each side of the sensors - more of an approximation of distance. It still shows inches to impact, but it assumes a consistent circle within it's detection area. The AP2 hardware will actually provide details of an object that is closer or further within that same circle.

    Storage & Convenience

    How in the word did you early adopters drive a Model S???? As I commuted to work, my coffee and water bottle slid back and forth on the yatch floor. On one particular right hand turn, the bottle slid across the floor, hit the side and splashed open. I screamed to myself "WHY THE F$#@ DOES THIS NOT HAVE A CUPHOLDER?!?"

    The storage console in my 2016 is simple. It looks good. It works. I like cupholders.

    Subzero

    I'm a huge heated steering wheel fan. I've gone through the trouble of even retrofitting it on some of my other cars. When we purchased our S, this was a non-discussion package for me. As I got the S85, I thought I would miss my heated steering wheel, but was surprised that I really didn't. (My wife disagrees, she did miss it)

    What I did miss, was preheating. Since loaners can not be connected to the app, preheating was not an option. If you are on a tight budget, I wouldn't hesitate to skip subzero given the ability to preheat.

    One other tiny thing I noticed, was that the defroster vents were different on the S85. The older defrost vents were more apparent in a glare on the windshield. It wasn't majorly distracting, but it was noticeable. The overall HVAC system was also not as effective. In my S60D, I often find it gets up to temp quickly and remains comfortable. On several occasions while commuting, I found myself thinking - I'm a little chilly in the S85, especially around the legs/feet. Both cars used the same climate settings.

    Driving

    Dear Tesla, what in the world did you change? The S85 drives like a completely different car than the S60D.

    Since purchasing my S60D, I have said on a number of times "As a car, the Tesla is really actually pretty bad. As a piece of technology, it's down right impressive." As a car enthusiast, I stood by that. The regen braking works, but when combined with overly sensitive brakes, it becomes grabby. It's difficult to modulate speed when driving aggressively.

    What's worse, is the steering feel. While the different modes add resistance to the steering, it is not commutative at all. I enjoy driving, and I like knowing what the car is doing. When driving my S60D, I simply can't feel the road. There's extremely limited feedback. I'm a driver that wants to feel the pebble, wants to feel what the tires are doing, so I can adjust and drive. I just don't get that in my S60D. As a result, I like using the car. It's an impressive piece of technology. I just don't love driving the car.

    I haven't dove into the technical specifications. I don't know if it's a suspension change, steering change, software programming, or the fact that it doesn't have dual motors dampening the steering. I don't know what's different, but holy crap I genuinely enjoyed driving the S85. The software settings didn't matter - comfort, standard, sport. You could still feel the slightly artificial power steering boost. The important part is that I knew what the car was doing. The feedback was there!

    With the S60D, I always have a desire to head towards the nearest highway. I find myself contemplating whether or not I should purchase EAP. With the S85, I found myself looking for some backgrounds to drive, carve up some turns, and just enjoy driving. I found it genuinely fun.

    Now I'll have to find a 2016 S75/90 to see if it's a RWD vs AWD difference, or if the older cars were just set up differently.

    Conclusion

    On a day to day basis, the differences are really not as large as they seem on paper. The newer car does seem newer. There's slightly less creaks, but the S85 never seemed like a kit car to me. It didn't feel cheap, and there weren't any noises that were annoying.

    The two largest differences were the lack of a center console, but that can be retrofit; and the driving dynamics of the car. Which may or may not be a generational change. If you're looking for a cheaper way to get into a Tesla, I would not hesitate to jump into a used S85.
     
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  2. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

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    the bottom line is what is more important, do you want range or updated features?
    IMHO the newer cars have a better build quality than the older cars.
    that said I don't know what your range needs are and sacrificing 50+ miles of range might be too much of a price to pay for all the features found in the newer car.
     
  3. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    New car unless you absolutely need the range
     
  4. hillestadk

    hillestadk Member

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    I recently had a P85 loaner (which the DU failed on while in my possession) and I couldn't agree more with the steering feedback. I figured it was because it was a performance version vs my regular 60. I enjoyed driving the P85 because of the steering, my 60 feels very numb even on sport setting.
     
  5. Yinn

    Yinn Member

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    Is your 60 a D? Or a RWD? What year?
     
  6. Doubletap67

    Doubletap67 Member

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    Plus day to day there's no need to charge a 60D to only 80%
     
  7. ahurst

    ahurst Member

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    Thank you for the post. Very interesting comparison.
    I have driven the S85 in the past on a test drive (not spiritedly) but have not had the chance to drive a 60D. I did drive the 90D and steering feel was lacking.
     
  8. ahurst

    ahurst Member

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    He said 2016 60D vs 2013 S85
     
  9. taminatorv

    taminatorv Member

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    Thanks for the comparison. I've had a S70D loaner before and also thought my S85 pulled much harder after about 20mph. A bit more front end feel and a lighter, quicker response had me appreciating the RWD layout. I didn't think my classic S85 was any noisier than the S70D on the highway either. I'm not crazy about the old seats, but felt the next gen seats were too snug for everyday commuting. They were great in the twisties though. When the retro-fit premium seats become available, I might go for that.
     
  10. hmmm

    hmmm Member

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    I recently had an S85 as a loaner (coming from a D) and there is no question that a RWD is a lot more fun to drive in a spirited fashion. It took me a while to get used to the steadiness and understeer of a D.

    As a side note, my wife tells me that this car (D) makes me drive like a grandpa, but I am ok with that...she has no idea how grandpa is driving the D when she is not around. In all fairness, I don't know how SHE is driving it when I am not looking.
     
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  11. Jashev

    Jashev Supporting Member

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    Did your loaner have air suspension or coil? I love my S85! I couldn't justify a later model just to get AP.
     
  12. Yinn

    Yinn Member

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    Both cars are on coil suspensions. I still have the loaner, and I have to say I'm liking it more and more. It's impressive how the car tightens up with speed too, I definitely do not get that out of our S60D.

    I should also note that after I posted, it snowed a decent amount. The S85 was fine in the snow, no twitchy moments. The HVAC in the S85 is definitely weaker though. Froze my butt off most of the way home on a 40 mile drive
     
    • Informative x 1
  13. Kenriko

    Kenriko Member

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    I just purchased a "nearly new" P85 CPO. Having driven the P85 and a 60D I felt that short of going with a 90D or 100D @ 100k+ the P85 was a better car if you only want to pay 60kish and have the power and options. I won't miss autopilot.
     
  14. cwave1

    cwave1 Member

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    It appears that you are looking at two extremes - higher end but quite old or lower end but brand new.

    Have you considered something in the middle? I just traded in my 2013 S85 for a used CPO 2015 S85D. This is much less money than a new vehicle with the same features but still has hundreds of quality improvements over my 2013.
     
  15. Kenriko

    Kenriko Member

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    Quite old = 24 - 36 months? OMG what world are we living in!
     
  16. Yinn

    Yinn Member

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    I think there's a misunderstanding. I'm not considering anything. I already bought and own a 2016 AP2 S60D.

    It's in for service and I have a 2013 non-AP S85 loaner. Just doing a comparison for potential buyers. I see a lot of these from people going from old to new, I think it offers a different perspective when going new to old.

    I think the major takeaaay here is that a new model owner is very impressed by an older S85 in several areas.

    Trying to help out the community, that's all. As used prices for older models fall, I figured this review would be helpful to those looking to jump in at a lower price point.
     
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  17. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Member

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    I strongly disagree with this statement "As a car, the Tesla is really actually pretty bad. As a piece of technology, it's down right impressive."
     
  18. johnzhang22

    johnzhang22 Member

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    I just traded in my December 2013 S85 to a 2017 S60D last weekend. First impressions of the 60D is that the Model S has improved a lot in 3 years. Cabin noise is a lot quieter in the 60D, even with the dual motors. The acceleration feels a lot stronger off the line in my new S. I would guess that the 60D is quicker from 0-60 than the 85.
    The center console is a good upgrade, it makes the car look more refined and it keeps your stuff organized. I didn't get the premium upgrades package, I don't need it, although I can see myself missing the power liftgate on times. The interior of the 60D non-PUP surprisingly look and feel more refined than my old S85. The alcantar headliner is standard now.
    A huge upgrade in the paint department as well. The metallic paint really stands out in the midnight silver. The S85 "dolphin" gray was flat and boring by comparison. That was a huge surprise to me, I'm glad I picked midnight silver.
     
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  19. Jeff4155

    Jeff4155 Member

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    I would go for a 60D, it can always be upgraded to a 75D if you really need the extra miles, plus the 60D is quick enough for me, facelift and all the other small improvements would make it a better second hand vehicle come selling time
     
  20. hillestadk

    hillestadk Member

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    2016 S60 RWD
     

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