-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
2016 Model S P100D for sale 79,000 OBO
- Thread starter omar193
- Start date
Sunshine State
Automotive Enthusiast
Your opinion is that the 3 is better, that is without question different than a fact. The older P90D and older P100D don’t feel the same as a new P100D, that’s my opinion. IMO a new P3D definitely doesn’t feel the same either. IMO the new P100D’s are superior in most ways, they should be for twice the price and not many should argue that opinion. I have to admit the P3 has grown on me and I will add one shortly to our garage, not to replace an S or X, but as a budget hot rod. That is where the P3 is superior. IMO.
Super smart. The Model S pricing is going to be destroyed when the Taycan starts being delivered. Tesla is going to have a massive problem on their hands.
iqless
Member
It will be interesting to see what the performance ends up being on the Taycan, particularly the Turbo. From a looks, reliability, service experience, buying experience, stable resale value, the list could go on and one....Porsche will be far superior. I had a Model S inventory car ordered about 2 months ago and then cancelled it because my experience was such a sh*t show. I had the same set of issues when I got my X a few years back.
I think buying a S right now, especially a new one or an overpriced used one on this forum, is just a terrible idea.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Except for the fact that the Taycan will be horribly inefficient compared to the Model S - MARK MY WORDS.
How do I know? Audi owns Porsche, and the drivetrain for the Audi eTron is horribly inefficient. I guarantee you that Audi/Porsche didn't design an entirely new drivetrain for the Taycan, but borrowed heavily from what they have already built on the eTron.
Tesla's incredible efficiency lead is becoming clear with range test against Audi e-tron and Jaguar I-Pace - Electrek
Tesla's efficiency lead = more performance, more range, and a better overall experience than the Taycan.
iqless
Member
Oh, no doubt the Porsche will be vastly superior to the Model S in everything but self driving tech and Superchargers, especially in NA. They did say the Taycan Turbo will do 0-60 in about 3 seconds, which is very fast but not as fast as the P100DL.
That's true but self driving and the supercharger network won't bail out Tesla much longer with more and more competition coming out.
I have high hopes for the e-tron GT and the way I see it, I'd go for one in a heartbeat over an S, even if it comes with a way more limited driver assistance package.
I have high hopes for the e-tron GT and the way I see it, I'd go for one in a heartbeat over an S, even if it comes with a way more limited driver assistance package.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Objectively speaking, what competition?
There is not an EV to date released that is as good as the original Model S released back in 2012. That's a 7 year lead, and counting . . .
1) power - nope, no one else close (we're talking not even in the same time zone close, forget zip code close)
2) efficiency - nope
3) battery degradation profile - this one is laughable really, no one to date has figured out how to properly design battery packs that don't degrade sharply over their lifetime (my two 85 packs from 2013 cars still have 94-95% of their original capacity)
4) charging network - this one is just downright PAINFUL for all other manufacturers. Try taking any other EV cross country and let us know how that experience was
5) self driving - yeah, we don't even need to elaborate on this one
Things Tesla desperately needs to improve upon:
1) sales experience (not the website stuff, the HUMAN stuff)
2) repair experience (waiting weeks or months for parts is not acceptable)
iqless
Member
1) The i-pace can do 0-60 in 4 something seconds which is vastly faster than the original Model S, isn't it?
3) I think we'll have to wait and see on the battery degradation profile.
5) Tesla isn't as far ahead of everyone as most people think it is. Within a year or at most 2 years others will catch up on them in this. Waymo is already far ahead but it's not practical.
I agree with the rest, although it must be said that other brands like Audi and Porsche have superior build quality and interior quality. That must also be counted.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
i-Pace is 4.5 seconds. Original P85 was listed as 4.1, but consistently measured 3.8-4.0 in tests. Tesla has effectively cut this by an additional one THRID since then with the P100D, which is no small feat (i.e. squarely in supercar territory). It's an exponential curve, not linear, so that's saying a lot.
I've had the Tesla motors and battery packs apart, and can tell you that the design of these is so much more compact, efficient, and just well done than anyone else on the market. If you want to read more, read about Munro's breakdown of a Model 3. Tesla Model 3 teardown expert is exasperated with analysts' inaccurate data These were EARLY cars, and have been improved upon significantly since then (better fit and finish, fewer body parts, etc.).
I've owned Audi's and other luxury brands, and I would argue ALL DAY LONG about the "superior build quality" for these brands. BMW - Bavarian Money Waster. Audi - the ones I have had all had major issues JUST out of warranty. Jaguar - NO ONE wants me to go there. None of these brands are Lexus - quality companies, and at best their quality is as good as Tesla on fit and finish (which has made MAJOR strides - 2019 cars are so much better than my 2013 ones). None of them are in the same time-zone as Tesla on powertrain and electronics.
Interior - Tesla could do better, but that seems more of a choice to me on their part - i.e. they chose not to make things super plush.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
iqless
Member
Part of a general big price cut on P100D's.
I gotta say it's still a worse deal than when I got it though since my price was $76,700 but with FSD, which would cost $6,000 to add to this car since it (just like any other used Tesla) doesn't have EAP
iqless
Member
This is the Model S Forum, so you won't find a ton of support here Omar. 
I owned a performance Model S for two years and loved it. It's a fantastic car. Like so many before me have said, the MS gives you two screens (one of which is much larger), better looks, and more interior room. The Model 3 has better battery technology - aka faster super charging, better safety ratings, more efficiency kilowatt per mile, better responsiveness around curves (it's lighter), and much lower price tag. I tend to agree with you that pound for pound - dollar for dollar, the M3 is a better cost value. But as you know value is mostly a subjective thing and differs with each individual making the value judgment. I think you have a strong argument saying it's the best Tesla for the price. You're not alone in believing that, in fact I think the majority of Tesla owners would agree. The MS is more luxurious, more roomy, faster performance, and can give you the best range per charge. Those elements are huge, especially for some - which lends credence to their argument. Keep smiling folks. It's just a blog.
I owned a performance Model S for two years and loved it. It's a fantastic car. Like so many before me have said, the MS gives you two screens (one of which is much larger), better looks, and more interior room. The Model 3 has better battery technology - aka faster super charging, better safety ratings, more efficiency kilowatt per mile, better responsiveness around curves (it's lighter), and much lower price tag. I tend to agree with you that pound for pound - dollar for dollar, the M3 is a better cost value. But as you know value is mostly a subjective thing and differs with each individual making the value judgment. I think you have a strong argument saying it's the best Tesla for the price. You're not alone in believing that, in fact I think the majority of Tesla owners would agree. The MS is more luxurious, more roomy, faster performance, and can give you the best range per charge. Those elements are huge, especially for some - which lends credence to their argument. Keep smiling folks. It's just a blog.
Not exactly, and I am not a Tesla fan boy who refuses to say negative or call out Tesla’s flaws. The issues I see with Porsche are not only the charging network but their claim to full charge in 15 minutes which will destroy the battery. Tesla faced the same issues from owners who we’re constantly supercharging causing the battery to be replaced. They even started to limit buyers who would do excessive charging by keeping the kw reduced and in a few rare cases making certain fee drivers unable to use them after extreme excessive use. I’m sure they did that in an area near their homes since obviously traveling wouldn’t be possible. So I think Porsche will find out the hard way that as much as the fast charging attracts buyers, if they provide similar warranties to Tesla they will in turn lose all their margins replacing batteries. Tesla’s charging rate isn’t even close to what Porsche is claiming their charging to be capable of. I believe it was around 800 amps, not sure but it doesn’t exist anywhere but at a Porsche dealership and is not possible for a house to handle.
Now the positive, Porsche keeps their value better than every comparable luxury vehicle, has the best handling and best overall driving experience than basically every other car. My biggest issue and why I think it will not due as well as it should, is cuz it looks nothing like the original prototype which was absolutely amazing. It is not that appealing, not that Tesla’s are at all( they look like Honda accords stock with their 19 inch rims) but Porsche ruined what could’ve have been the ultimate Tesla killer even with a lacking network cuz most owners would not have used it as their long trip vehicle. No one stands a chance against Tesla’s super charging network, but Tesla needs to leverage their network to stay around. Not even long term they need to do it now cuz their shelf life is running out due to lack of funds. They will be bought no matter what, considering they are still years ahead with their batteries range, performance etc. But none of that matters if they can’t figure out how to make a profit. I honestly give them a yr before the are done unless they keep getting lucky with their investor throwing another billion into them. They make their most profits from other automakers like Chrysler paying them commissions to avoid emission fees.
