Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

2020.12.5 New Launch Mode and 2017 P100DL Slower Now!

sakimano

Active Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,374
836
Ontario, Canada
If this thing doesn't run 10's when the track opens (like it has the last two years in a row).... It's getting sold.

If they are going to reduce total kW output they need to make up for it with the P85D/P90D early power distribution curve. Ive never understood how that much power going into the P85D/P90D drive units, so early in acceleration phase, is ok fo those but not the P100D? The drivelines are virtually identical.

To 30mph my P85/P90D beats (slightly) my P100D after that the P100D comes flying by both of them.
How'd you measure that? Post some data would be neat to see
 

Ludalicious

Active Member
Feb 22, 2018
1,105
1,197
Vancouver
If this thing doesn't run 10's when the track opens (like it has the last two years in a row).... It's getting sold.

If they are going to reduce total kW output they need to make up for it with the P85D/P90D early power distribution curve. Ive never understood how that much power going into the P85D/P90D drive units, so early in acceleration phase, is ok fo those but not the P100D? The drivelines are virtually identical.

To 30mph my P85/P90D beats (slightly) my P100D after that the P100D comes flying by both of them.

When you tested this, what was the tire wear at? If the P100D tires were less than 20% that will effect the vehicle out of the hole I have noticed. If the P85/P90D had fresh tires they tend to be softer when new and you are able to get much more dig out of them. Kind of like snow tires, they are very hard the last 20% and don't work well at all. I have noticed much faster times with a fresh set of "STOCK" tires.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: UkrHog

sakimano

Active Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,374
836
Ontario, Canada
Lots of people were really unhappy with their cars after this update...but nobody seems to be posting anymore so should we assume that all is well with latest updates and bug fixes?
 

UkrHog

Member
Aug 29, 2017
223
124
Florida
Lots of people were really unhappy with their cars after this update...but nobody seems to be posting anymore so should we assume that all is well with latest updates and bug fixes?
I still have not tested mine since. Maybe this weekend, I’ve been busy and we have been having lots of rain in Florida lately.
 

Cory151

Member
Oct 21, 2017
134
236
California
When you tested this, what was the tire wear at? If the P100D tires were less than 20% that will effect the vehicle out of the hole I have noticed. If the P85/P90D had fresh tires they tend to be softer when new and you are able to get much more dig out of them. Kind of like snow tires, they are very hard the last 20% and don't work well at all. I have noticed much faster times with a fresh set of "STOCK" tires.

The P100D was on 20" Model X rims with a brand new set of snow tires. This wheels/tire setups is exactly 1.5 lbs lighters (per wheel) than the 21" turbines that were on both the p90d and p85d. Don't take my word for it, test the cars back to back at same SOC. If you live in such a Tesla dense area as you describe, this should be easy for you to accomplish.
 

Ludalicious

Active Member
Feb 22, 2018
1,105
1,197
Vancouver
The P100D was on 20" Model X rims with a brand new set of snow tires. This wheels/tire setups is exactly 1.5 lbs lighters (per wheel) than the 21" turbines that were on both the p90d and p85d. Don't take my word for it, test the cars back to back at same SOC. If you live in such a Tesla dense area as you describe, this should be easy for you to accomplish.

Smaller lighter rims doesn't necessarily mean a faster time for electric vehicle.

I also have the slips showing the difference between my much lighter forged rims when compared to my stock tires and rims. And I was a coupoe 10ths slower


Also hope you realise 20"winter tires are heavier than the stock 21" tires due to the larger sidewall. Thats if this is your tire combonation. You need a fair comparison.
Screenshot_20200617-170101_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20200617-165920_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

Cory151

Member
Oct 21, 2017
134
236
California
Smaller lighter rims doesn't necessarily mean a faster time for electric vehicle.

I also have the slips showing the difference between my much lighter forged rims when compared to my stock tires and rims. And I was a coupoe 10ths slower


Also hope you realise 20"winter tires are heavier than the stock 21" tires due to the larger sidewall. Thats if this is your tire combonation. You need a fair comparison. View attachment 552931 View attachment 552932

Your layman logic isn't gonna cut it here buddy. Ive taken the time to weigh both tire combos on a scale.
Ive got a $1000 to the charity of the winners choice that says the 21" stock wheel and tire is heavier than a 20" Model X rim with a winter tire on it. If you're so sure, it should be easy money right?
 
Jan 1, 2015
247
76
Norge
I have papers from Tesla. Telling me that my P100DL won't go past 136mph if my battery is 70% or less.
(PS. It won't go past this with 85% soc or 90% either..)
They said it BMS protecting my battery.
But I baugt a performance car.
My X100D is faster from 0-120mph.
The S75D is faster to.. With lower soc...
So I told them to change bms next week.
Or they can have my car back.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Chaserr and UkrHog

rajram

Member
Nov 11, 2017
26
62
Colorado Springs
I've had my 2017 P100DL since December 2017 and had very consistent performance since day one, up until today. A good measure of the performance of these cars is the 1/8th mile trap speed which is relatively insensitive to traction conditions. These cars should break 100 mph with 80% SOC. My best today was 95 mph on my first run with 91% SOC; all subsequent runs were in the 92-93 mph range with SOC in the mid eighties. That's a drop of ~7 mph on from my baseline which is significant for the 1/8th. Car is running software revision 20.1. I figured there was a mechanical issue but after seeing this thread, I'm convinced the software is definitely limiting power output. Current mileage on the car is 7,800 miles. This is a travesty since the majority of these cars are purchased for their "ludicrous" acceleration capability more than anything. I hope Tesla will do the right thing and update the software to restore the full performance of these cars; if that doesn't happen, I might well be shopping for a Taycan Turbo S.

 
  • Informative
  • Love
Reactions: byeLT4 and UkrHog

bigboost

Member
Oct 2, 2018
168
99
Sarasota, FL
This is crap and Tesla better do something about it! I ran my ‘18 P100DL at the track right before the quarantine lockdowns (and before the software update) and got my typical 10.8’s at 120-122. When I go back in the future and after having the software update, I’m going to be very unhappy if I’m not running the same!
 
  • Like
Reactions: XLR82XS

rajram

Member
Nov 11, 2017
26
62
Colorado Springs
After more consideration, I've concluded that my car was affected by heat soak rather than a software-update related change to a specific parameter in the powertrain management software. I preheated my battery while I was charging the car at home, a practice I had never resorted to until this time. Then I switched to Chill Mode (plus Range Mode) for the drive to the track to minimize SOC loss. After getting to the track, I re-engaged "Max Battery Power" prior to my runs. I now believe that these cars do not have the thermal management capacity to maintain the battery at the required temperature for Ludicrous Plus and keep the motors sufficiently cool for extended periods. Track temperatures that day were around 100 degrees, which combined with the extended time my car spent in Ludicrous Plus mode was enough for the software to start limiting torque output, and this is likely driven by insufficient cooling for the motors. At the next track day, I plan to use Ludicrous Plus only to enable launch mode, and not wait for the battery temperature to reach the required set point. I think this will allow for more consistent performance over more passes even if the outright ET/traps are slightly worse. If anyone has experience using Launch Mode prior to the temperature reaching the set point, your inputs are very welcome.
 

bigboost

Member
Oct 2, 2018
168
99
Sarasota, FL
Launch Mode will work the same way prior to the battery heating up all the way. The problem will be the car will not put down as much power so you’ll likely have lower trap speeds.
Ive done the same thing as you where I fully charged my car at home and had it in Ludicrous Plus mode while charging so the battery was heated all the way. I only live about 5 miles from the drag strip so I kept it fully heated and even left it heating the whole time during my first three runs, which were all consistent. So I don’t think heat soak is that much of an issue with these EV’s. I live in FL too and the temp was hot and humid at the track
 

rajram

Member
Nov 11, 2017
26
62
Colorado Springs
Launch Mode will work the same way prior to the battery heating up all the way. The problem will be the car will not put down as much power so you’ll likely have lower trap speeds.

That makes sense. What I need to determine is how much of a difference there will be. If it is less than 1 mph in the 1/8th, I would trade that for more consistent runs and performance longevity through the course of the day. I have run my car through the half-mile with and without battery fully heated, and I don't recall there being a significant trap speed difference even over that distance.
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,397
3,370
Phoenix, AZ
This loss of performance SUCKS!!! I would be happier if they had never given us the extra performance and then put us thru this BS of taking it away! I've thought that I might buy a new Roadster in the future but it looks like you could spend a quarter of a million dollars on the car and then they could take back as much performance as they like whenever they want to! Can anyone tell me how to go about making my complaint to Tesla?
Welcome to the land of Tesla where everything is roses and daisies until it isn't. Tesla's revised warranty language says that in order to maintain the warranty, you must accept all software updates. It then goes on to exclude from warranty coverage any degradation of performance, range, or charging speed as a result of those software updates. I don't know when the new language went into effect.

Tesla misrepresents the performance of vehicles as a sales and marketing hook. Tesla knows very well that the performance they advertise and give you (upon purchase) is temporary. Tesla knows that the performance they advertise and encourage in the beginning is not sustainable. Later software updates dial that back over time in order to keep the batteries from failing inside of the warranty period.

Class action lawsuit in progress. #batterygate #chargegate
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,397
3,370
Phoenix, AZ
I have papers from Tesla. Telling me that my P100DL won't go past 136mph if my battery is 70% or less.
(PS. It won't go past this with 85% soc or 90% either..)
They said it BMS protecting my battery.
But I baugt a performance car.
My X100D is faster from 0-120mph.
The S75D is faster to.. With lower soc...
So I told them to change bms next week.
Or they can have my car back.
Wonder why nobody is buying Teslas in Germany? lol
 

rajram

Member
Nov 11, 2017
26
62
Colorado Springs
New testing results are in, comparing Ludicrous Plus with and without Preheating as well Ludicrous (without launch mode). Spoiler Alert: Preheating the battery may not necessarily provide a performance advantage.

The first run is in Ludicrous Plus mode but without preheating the battery to the 50-degree setpoint.


For run 2, we waited for the battery to reach the 50-degree setpoint in Ludicrous Plus mode.


As I've mentioned before, 0-60 MPH times are not very indicative of power due to traction limitations, but trap speed is. Check out the 1/8th mile trap speed in the first video vs. the 2nd. That;s roughly a 6 MPH drop with the battery SOC only a couple of percent lower! That's a colossal difference in the 660' and will be even more pronounced in the 1/4 mile. Clearly, the software was limiting power with this setup probably because the cooling system is incapable of maintaining the battery at 50C on a warm day without overheating the motors. The question then was whether the car would recover if taken out of Ludicruous Plus mode. That's the run below:


Indeed, the trap speed had increased by 5 MPH over the previous run; the remaining 1 MPH deficit between runs 1 and 3 could be attributed to the battery charge difference or perhaps, due to the stress imposed by the preheating routine itself. Either way, I believe this addresses the questions that plagued me after my last drag-strip runs where the car was 5-7 MPH slower than its historical baseline. Based on these findings, these would be my recommendations for consistent drag strip performance on the P100D:

  1. SOC matters, so arrive at the track with as much charge as possible.
  2. Do NOT preheat the battery (not even when you're charging the car). Only exception to this would be if the ambient temperatures were very low, in the sixties, for instance, where risk of overheating the motors and running into software torque management is smaller.
  3. Use Ludicrous Plus right before you stage so you minimize time spent with the car trying to preheat the battery. LP mode is only needed to enable Launch Mode which is necessary for the best 60-ft times.
  4. Disengage Ludicrous Plus immediately after the pass. In fact, I'd recommend Chill Mode and Range Mode just to absolutely minimize charge loss between runs.
Hope that helps.
 

UkrHog

Member
Aug 29, 2017
223
124
Florida
New testing results are in, comparing Ludicrous Plus with and without Preheating as well Ludicrous (without launch mode). Spoiler Alert: Preheating the battery may not necessarily provide a performance advantage.

The first run is in Ludicrous Plus mode but without preheating the battery to the 50-degree setpoint.


For run 2, we waited for the battery to reach the 50-degree setpoint in Ludicrous Plus mode.


As I've mentioned before, 0-60 MPH times are not very indicative of power due to traction limitations, but trap speed is. Check out the 1/8th mile trap speed in the first video vs. the 2nd. That;s roughly a 6 MPH drop with the battery SOC only a couple of percent lower! That's a colossal difference in the 660' and will be even more pronounced in the 1/4 mile. Clearly, the software was limiting power with this setup probably because the cooling system is incapable of maintaining the battery at 50C on a warm day without overheating the motors. The question then was whether the car would recover if taken out of Ludicruous Plus mode. That's the run below:


Indeed, the trap speed had increased by 5 MPH over the previous run; the remaining 1 MPH deficit between runs 1 and 3 could be attributed to the battery charge difference or perhaps, due to the stress imposed by the preheating routine itself. Either way, I believe this addresses the questions that plagued me after my last drag-strip runs where the car was 5-7 MPH slower than its historical baseline. Based on these findings, these would be my recommendations for consistent drag strip performance on the P100D:

  1. SOC matters, so arrive at the track with as much charge as possible.
  2. Do NOT preheat the battery (not even when you're charging the car). Only exception to this would be if the ambient temperatures were very low, in the sixties, for instance, where risk of overheating the motors and running into software torque management is smaller.
  3. Use Ludicrous Plus right before you stage so you minimize time spent with the car trying to preheat the battery. LP mode is only needed to enable Launch Mode which is necessary for the best 60-ft times.
  4. Disengage Ludicrous Plus immediately after the pass. In fact, I'd recommend Chill Mode and Range Mode just to absolutely minimize charge loss between runs.
Hope that helps.

Thank you! It’s quite the draw back
from where it used to be. Really wish they would adjust the power limitation and fix the appropriate temp management when in Ludicrous Plus. It used to perform so much better!
We need more to chime in on Twitter!

https://twitter.com/tennislessonsfl/status/1280149453425356807?s=21
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top