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2022 Model 3 SR Accident: Acceleration While Braking to Park
- Thread starter costaj31
- Start date
davewill
Active Member
Plus if they were actually pressing the brake pedal, as claimed, cruise control would not be active.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You pressed the wrong pedal.
There's like half a dozen independent systems that would need to all fail, in different ways, all at the same time, for the car to accelerate when BOTH you are not pressing the accelerator -and- you are pressing the brake pedal.
There's an EDR kit you can buy to read the logs (if you know how)- or try the request route. Or Jason Hughes (and others) will do it as a paid service.
But they're all going to tell you the same thing- you pressed the accelerator when you thought you were pressing the brake.
(Hughes famously had, probably still has, a standing bet where he'll pay $10,000 to anyone who brings him a car whose logs actually show acceleration without the accelerator being pressed... nobody has ever done so because as I say it's essentially impossible due to how many redundant systems prevent this).
That's confusing. Break this theory down Barney style for me...
So, someone is driving through a parking lot and let's off the accelerator. The car starts regen braking. The driver needs to further reduce speed to turn into a parking spot so he mistakenly hits the accelerator? I just don't understand that.
Removing your foot from the accelerator and then braking is the universal way to make a turn so I can't comprehend what's different about a Tesla that causes people to remove their foot from the accelerator and then press the accelerator to brake.
I've been a member of dozens of car forums but this is the only one I ever see these types of accidents (I think this is the third I've seen). I just don't get it.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I don't know that the regen really matters. Folks hitting the accelerator thinking it's the brake is super common.
I guess I could maybe see it being slightly more likely with regen because you get in the habit of only ever using (and keeping your foot either on, or over) that single pedal.
Really?
Because tons of other cars have made massive headlines about exactly this type of accident.
What car forums have you been on where nobody ever claimed unintended acceleration?
And it's never, ever, ever, anything other than human error.
(in fairness in one specific case with Toyota/Lexus the human error was installing the wrong size floor mat, which could cause the accelerator to get stuck... there's still multiple ways to safely deal with that, but sadly one family in such a lexus had a driver who did not appear to know any of them)
davewill
Active Member
It pretty common in all kinds of cars. The person gets distracted, suddenly realizes they need to stop, panics, and hits the wrong pedal. I can't say I particularly buy that regen braking is much of a contributing factor.
You see stuck accelerators now and again, which would not be too big a problem except some people don't seem to realize that the answer is to apply the brake hard enough to override the engine and slow the car down.
Its really simple actually. Someone who is not used to driving a tesla, and is not "hard wired" into what regen braking is, is driving along somewhere, maybe partially distracted, then takes their foot off the accelerator pedal to start braking for "some reason". Perhaps a parking spot, perhaps as they pull into their driveway and the garage is closed.
They realize the car is not slowing down enough, panic, then hit the last pedal they hit the pedal they were pushing before, as that is the one they were just interacting with.
if you have been a member of multiple car forums, you have to have seen posts with people crashing into their garages, through other obstacles, and convinced that they were stepping on the brake.
Its more common with cars with regen braking, and drivers new to the platforum. Just like a new driver who has been driving for "a couple of months" thinks "I know how to drive", but actually does not have all the reactions hardwired into their brain, and many times makes mistakes when distracted (thus many states have rules about younger drivers not driving people around to reduce distractions) , same thing applies here.
EDIT:
The reason I am saying regen can be a factor, is because the person can already be slowing down, but "not enough" so reacts to push a pedal to slow down more. I do agree I have seen this exact type of post (unintended acceleration) in basically every car forum I have been in, though.
Tom_JS
Member
At this point every car manufacturer has been accused of this occurring with one or more of their models. It is not all that hard to make that mistake, heck I did it once in my Infiniti Q50. I was positive I was pressing the brake and I wont up driving over a curb before realizing my mistake. No damage or anything but all I can say is in my mind I was POSITIVE I was pressing the brake, and yet I was completely wrong. The thing is most people, faced with the reality of their own mistake and large repair bills, jump into the “unintended acceleration” mode. Which like was said previously, is impossible if you are pressing the brake. The brake in every car can overpower the engine easily.
I've been on a lot of them. I suppose I could have missed those posts. Or I'm starting to forget things since hitting 40.
You actually just jogged my memory. A few years ago on the Stinger forum someone backed into the interior wall of their garage. IIRC, the car was backed in and she was trying to pull out but mistakenly had the car in reverse. But that's different than stepping on the wrong pedal.
On the other hand, folks do all manner of weirdness when panicking so I can see that playing a big factor in such an accident.
OP, a couple of months back someone made a post stating that the car he bought brand new from Tesla was wrecked before he bought it. When he finally tracked down the accident report it said that someone was parking after a test drive and mistakenly accelerated into the wall of Tesla service center. Sounds like that may be similar to what you did.
Curious, if you were braking while the car was accelerating what actually caused the car to finally come to a stop? Did you hit an immovable object (tree, building, etc)?
Curious, if you were braking while the car was accelerating what actually caused the car to finally come to a stop? Did you hit an immovable object (tree, building, etc)?
Tom_JS
Member
Not sure if you are asking me. But I only “thought” I was braking. I was actually pressing the accelerator harder and harder until i jumped the curb and luckily came to my senses and letup.
Decades ago in driver education, stuck accelerator was an emergency situation that was covered (declutch or shift to neutral and use the brakes). Perhaps it is no longer taught due to the relative rarity of that happening (even with improperly installed floor mats).
Brake failure is another emergency situation that was apparently much more common decades ago (probably from before dual brake fluid circuits became universal). The parking brake was more commonly called the emergency brake back then. However, one mode of braking difficulty exists when there are loose objects in the driver footwell that move around and end up under the brake pedal, preventing it from being depressed fully.
Perhaps it is also worth mentioning that unintended acceleration while parking is rarely encountered with manual transmissions, since the driver usually declutches when intending to brake at parking speeds.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
There are countless theoretical ways in which the car might have accelerated on its own: Floor mats, cruise control, hardware failure, software glitch, etc.
But one thing is certain - you were not pressing the brake pedal.
So with that fact known, you can perhaps devise another explanation. For example, you might be certain that you weren't pressing the throttle because you know you were pressing very firmly yet the car didn't rocket to 100mph like it normally would. But note that the "obstacle aware acceleration" feature will allow you to drive thru bushes and parked cars etc, but limits acceleration to something on par with a bus.
But one thing is certain - you were not pressing the brake pedal.
So with that fact known, you can perhaps devise another explanation. For example, you might be certain that you weren't pressing the throttle because you know you were pressing very firmly yet the car didn't rocket to 100mph like it normally would. But note that the "obstacle aware acceleration" feature will allow you to drive thru bushes and parked cars etc, but limits acceleration to something on par with a bus.
I was asking the OP, since he thinks he was braking while the car was running over things.
I dont know if the OP will ever tell us, but I am guessing (based on a few different things) that this OP was not one driving. They may not have even been in the car. I am thinking that this was reported to them as what happened by whomever was actually driving the car. In other posts here on TMC, this OP mentions they got a model Y in the middle of June 2020, so OP is familiar with Teslas.
They also mention that they purchased this model 3 for their spouse, and in this thread said they have had it a couple of months.
The OP also never uses a word that identifies that they were the one driving in the first post, instead saying "The car......".
Like I said, we may never know, but im assuming the OP was told this by someone else driving the car.
They also mention that they purchased this model 3 for their spouse, and in this thread said they have had it a couple of months.
The OP also never uses a word that identifies that they were the one driving in the first post, instead saying "The car......".
Like I said, we may never know, but im assuming the OP was told this by someone else driving the car.
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In regards to the fawn part of this response, can anyone point me to a thread on wildlife avoidance? I don't have FSD, and have had to swerve to avoid deer and raccoon's, while the car did nothing. I also ran over an (already dead) raccoon, also no warning, and it was a big one.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Right. FSD notices and reacts to animals (and other things) in a far more advanced way than basic AP does.
Shows FSD beta actually slowing down for a cat
legendsk
Member
My Y has slapped on the brakes unexpectedly approximately 16,734 times in 4,700 miles. However, once in the middle of the night, lonely narrow dirt road out in the country, trees and bushes on both sides, no other cars around. It came to a complete stop, so I just waited and looked around to see if I could figure out why. After 20 or 30 seconds, I could make out a deer standing in the bushes by the side of the road. In a little bit the deer walked out on the road, turned and walked up to the front of the car, looked at it a while, then turned around and sauntered slowly down the middle of the road. At 50' or so away, the car began to slowly follow him. After a bit the deer veered off to the left side and wandered away and the car resumed on down the road. So all the stupid stuff that I hate is offset by absolutely brilliant behavior sometimes. I was impressed, because it took me a long time to see the deer, but the car did exactly the right thing. {Sorry, it was easier to just copy the post I made soon after I got the car. I couldn't figure out how to just link to the original.}
I pass deer literally, every morning, on the side of the road. I slow right down so they don't spook and run in front of me. The screen has never showed one on it. I don't get it.
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