265/35 vs 275/35 Conti DWS06+ on 19x9.5

[mkrone]

Hi all, new member here. I just bought a late '21 M3P and am loving the car, but wanted to upgrade the wheels/tires and suspension, as it feels lacking coming from my old 2012 Audi A4 S-line Avant. (even with 115k on original dampers)

I'm used to running UHP all-season tires in winter and am planning on having a single setup all year round as i live in Los Angeles. I've already curbed two of my uberturbines with the stock 235s on there and am planning on getting some 19x9.5s with either 265/35 or 275/35 Conti DWS06+ on them. I obviously need to relearn how to park without 'brail'ing the curb, but I'm soft, as I'm coming from the meaty stock setup on my old A4 which was an 18x8" wheel with 245/40 tires on there and was very forgiving in that way.

I'm also planning on getting some MPP goodies (adj coilovers, FLCAB, rear camber arms, master cylinder brace), only lowering .5-1" and setting camber to around -1.2 rear and -1.5 front per Jesse's advice on a car that won't be tracked but will be driven spiritedly and with the occasional road trip.

I have two questions: Should I go 265/35 or 275/35? I know most people run 265 or narrower on a 9.5" wheel vs. 275 and I'm wondering if i'll notice the extra meat in a bad way. On top of my poor parking skills, I'm planning on throwing a stealth hitch on the back for mountain bike rides and might want the extra .1-2" of clearance the 275 offers for when my car is lowered. Do the DWS06+s run small or big by anyone's accounts? According to tire rack, the 265s run smallish and the 275s run biggish.

And question number two: Sports of comfort adjustables? Again, not tracking the car but i love the occasional canyon carve and just miss the responsiveness of my old car's suspension. Jesse suggested sports coming from my B8 S-line which I loved, but I'm open to other people's experiences too!

Thanks and I'm hyped to turn this thing into a street beast!

 

[MODEL+]

Continental DWS06+ runs true to size. 275 will give you a more "meaty" look and offer a little more curb protection.

265/35/19

275/35/19

Suspension-wise, you can go MPP Sport or KW V3 if you're already used to European sports sedans ride quality and handling.

Hope this helps!

-Danny

 

[mkrone]

Thanks Danny! Hmm, the 275s don't look too crazy. Did you notice any change in handling or performance with sizing up? (or down if I've got the order wrong)

And copy that re: the coilovers. I don't mind something on the stiffer side for grocery-getting as long as it doesn't have the pogostick feel that the stock suspension gives me over little bumps

 

[Lindenwood]

Most 275s are designed for 9.0-10.5” wheels so will indeed safely fit. You’ll trade a bit of precision for the modest increases in comfort, ride height, and curb protection of the 275.

For your stated priorities, I’d go 275/35 for sure.

 

[mkrone]

Sounds good to me. Seems like things get pretty tight with 275s with street camber. With -1.5 up front and -1.2 out back on 9.5" wheel and stock model 3 performance brakes, what do you think the safe, no-rub offset range is for a square setup? I saw a thread with someone saying -35 was fine but I think they were on LR brakes and stock camber.

 

[Gasaraki]

Continental DWS06+ runs true to size. 275 will give you a more "meaty" look and offer a little more curb protection.

265/35/19
View attachment 1053930

275/35/19
View attachment 1053931

Suspension-wise, you can go MPP Sport or KW V3 if you're already used to European sports sedans ride quality and handling.

Hope this helps!

-Danny

What size rims are those 265/35/19 tires mounted on? 9s or 10s?

 

[MODEL+]

Thanks Danny! Hmm, the 275s don't look too crazy. Did you notice any change in handling or performance with sizing up? (or down if I've got the order wrong)

And copy that re: the coilovers. I don't mind something on the stiffer side for grocery-getting as long as it doesn't have the pogostick feel that the stock suspension gives me over little bumps

Softer ride due to taller sidewall. Cornering is not as sharp.
However, the car is on air suspension, so handling wasn't top priority.

What size rims are those 265/35/19 tires mounted on? 9s or 10s?

19x9.5 +22

-Danny

 

[crsn00]

Your description sounds exactly like my car! Lowered slightly on MPP comfort adjustables with rear camber arms and FLCAB, 19x9.5 wheels and 265 DWS06+ tires and also a stealth hitch.

Here's a sidewall closeup (ignore the laser, I was attempting an alignment). Definitely not much rim protection.

I'm basically at MPPs recommended height for the comfort adjustables and was only able to get -0.9° camber in the front after shoving the FUCA mounts inwards as much as possible. I think -1.5° would require adjustable FUCAs since you don't plan on lowering much.

The stealth hitch is LOW. All the trailheads around here are dirt so I have to be pretty careful not to scrape my rack on the ground. Never actually made contact at OEM ride height but we'll see what happens now...

I can't provide too much feedback on the handling of the comfort adjustable coilovers since they've only been on my car for 3 days but I am very happy with them so far. At MPPs recommended settings they're slightly stiffer than OEM over bumps but not enough to make my wife complain and I can still stiffen them up more with the adjustments.

The biggest improvement was the steering response with the FLCAB. Literally night and day compared to OEM, and for me was the main reason the stock suspension felt so poor. The stock rubber bushing contributed significantly to the smushy/body roll feeling.

Let me know if you want any more specific pictures!

 

[mkrone]

Your description sounds exactly like my car! Lowered slightly on MPP comfort adjustables with rear camber arms and FLCAB, 19x9.5 wheels and 265 DWS06+ tires and also a stealth hitch.

Here's a sidewall closeup (ignore the laser, I was attempting an alignment). Definitely not much rim protection.
View attachment 1054257

I'm basically at MPPs recommended height for the comfort adjustables and was only able to get -0.9° camber in the front after shoving the FUCA mounts inwards as much as possible. I think -1.5° would require adjustable FUCAs since you don't plan on lowering much.

The stealth hitch is LOW. All the trailheads around here are dirt so I have to be pretty careful not to scrape my rack on the ground. Never actually made contact at OEM ride height but we'll see what happens now...

I can't provide too much feedback on the handling of the comfort adjustable coilovers since they've only been on my car for 3 days but I am very happy with them so far. At MPPs recommended settings they're slightly stiffer than OEM over bumps but not enough to make my wife complain and I can still stiffen them up more with the adjustments.

The biggest improvement was the steering response with the FLCAB. Literally night and day compared to OEM, and for me was the main reason the stock suspension felt so poor. The stock rubber bushing contributed significantly to the smushy/body roll feeling.

Let me know if you want any more specific pictures!

Looks great from that angle! And good to know the front camber doesn’t get that far with the recommended drop height.

Glad I’m not the only one going stealth hitch on a lowered model 3 haha. Keep me posted on how it goes! I haven’t bought it yet (or a rack) so I’m very curious. Do you like your 1up? I was planning on getting a double as well.

I actually just got a good deal on some used MPP sports coils. Hoping they aren’t too stiff but I’ve heard they’re still pretty comfortable at recommended settings and I’m going to slap 275s on.

Your stance looks good too! I’d love to see more pics, especially a similar one but from the front. I have stock performance rotors and I’m trying to figure out my ideal offset for this ride height with its natural camber and 19x9.5s. I was thinking +30 but now I’m not sure. And just curious, what’s your rear camber set to?

 

[pdx_m3s]

SVE makes some 19x10 +35 wheels that fit. My plan is to rock 275s on those.

 

[crsn00]

Looks great from that angle! And good to know the front camber doesn’t get that far with the recommended drop height.

Glad I’m not the only one going stealth hitch on a lowered model 3 haha. Keep me posted on how it goes! I haven’t bought it yet (or a rack) so I’m very curious. Do you like your 1up? I was planning on getting a double as well.

I actually just got a good deal on some used MPP sports coils. Hoping they aren’t too stiff but I’ve heard they’re still pretty comfortable at recommended settings and I’m going to slap 275s on.

Your stance looks good too! I’d love to see more pics, especially a similar one but from the front. I have stock performance rotors and I’m trying to figure out my ideal offset for this ride height with its natural camber and 19x9.5s. I was thinking +30 but now I’m not sure. And just curious, what’s your rear camber set to?

Currently only at -1° camber in the rear but I'll be going to -1.5° when I get an actual alignment tomorrow. More would probably be good but I'd rather have less grip and neutral handling than a bunch of understeer.

My wheels are 19x9.5 +35 with non-performance rotors. Before lowering there was a little bit of poke with the 265s but now it's pretty much perfect. I'll get an updated picture after alignment tomorrow but here's the before at stock height:

I originally wanted 275s but I'm glad I went 265 because of the additional width but also because of the range hit. I went from 213wh/mi to 256wh/mi average... not sure what percentage of that was the width vs the tires vs the less aero wheel design. So far it seems like lowering has helped efficiency somewhat but still too early to say.


The 1UP rack is ok, I do really like the all metal construction and the no frame contact design but I had some pretty significant bike wobble specifically with the Model 3 at highway speed.

Because it's so aerodynamic, the top half of the bike basically gets hit by full speed air which seems to create some sort of resonating oscillation with my bike at certain speeds.

I solved most of the wobble by drilling and bolting on this tire stop to prevent any steering rotation but there's still some flex in the tire arms. 1UP does make an easy bolt on tire stop but my bike's wheelbase was too big for it.

 

[mkrone]

Currently only at -1° camber in the rear but I'll be going to -1.5° when I get an actual alignment tomorrow. More would probably be good but I'd rather have less grip and neutral handling than a bunch of understeer.

My wheels are 19x9.5 +35 with non-performance rotors. Before lowering there was a little bit of poke with the 265s but now it's pretty much perfect. I'll get an updated picture after alignment tomorrow but here's the before at stock height:
View attachment 1056224

I originally wanted 275s but I'm glad I went 265 because of the additional width but also because of the range hit. I went from 213wh/mi to 256wh/mi average... not sure what percentage of that was the width vs the tires vs the less aero wheel design. So far it seems like lowering has helped efficiency somewhat but still too early to say.


The 1UP rack is ok, I do really like the all metal construction and the no frame contact design but I had some pretty significant bike wobble specifically with the Model 3 at highway speed.

Because it's so aerodynamic, the top half of the bike basically gets hit by full speed air which seems to create some sort of resonating oscillation with my bike at certain speeds.

I solved most of the wobble by drilling and bolting on this tire stop to prevent any steering rotation but there's still some flex in the tire arms. 1UP does make an easy bolt on tire stop but my bike's wheelbase was too big for it.
View attachment 1056216

Hmm yeah I wonder what the range hit is between 265 and 275. I'm coming from 20" Uberturbines with p zeros on them so it probably won't be quite as much of a gap. Do you plan on keeping front camber at -1ish? Seems like that might cause a bit of understeer with more in the back, right?

That's a bummer to hear about the wobbly bike on the 1up. I also have a large enduro bike so i doubt their version would work for me either. I do love the modular system though. Do you just keep the bike rack and receiver attached to each other and stick the whole thing up into the piece bolted to your car? I envision only having the receiver on when i'm going biking so i'm trying to gauge how much of a PITA it will be to throw it on and take it off.

I read somewhere that a 1" drop on a stock model 3 with 18 aeros gave it 7% more range. Not sure how that'd stack up with wider, less aero 19s on wider tires but it might bring your range back up 10-15 wh/mi.

Hyped to see some more lowered pics after alignment!

 

[crsn00]

That's a bummer to hear about the wobbly bike on the 1up. I also have a large enduro bike so i doubt their version would work for me either. I do love the modular system though. Do you just keep the bike rack and receiver attached to each other and stick the whole thing up into the piece bolted to your car? I envision only having the receiver on when i'm going biking so i'm trying to gauge how much of a PITA it will be to throw it on and take it off.

If you have the budget for it, the 1UP Xtreme duty seems like it would solve the wobble problem with the doubled arms and larger pivot surface. Not cheap though! (my wheel stop is an accessory for the Xtreme duty rack that I made fit on the standard version)


The stealth hitch receiver is a pretty solid snap in and connection (great for confidence!) but does take a bit of force. I half attempted putting the receiver in with the rack attached and it's definitely a no for me, too heavy and awkward. Way less effort to just do them separately.

It's not a huge pain to get the rack on, takes me maybe a minute or two at most. Most of the annoyance is getting the receiver in/out since you pretty much have to crawl around on the floor with the height of the car:

1. Undo half turn fasteners, pull off access panel
2. Pull off rubber stealth hitch plug
3. Push in receiver
4. Pull off key lock cap, push in the lock button, and put the cap back on
5. Reverse process to remove hitch after ride (also slightly annoying to get the key lined up to unlock the receiver)

 

[crsn00]

Hmm yeah I wonder what the range hit is between 265 and 275. I'm coming from 20" Uberturbines with p zeros on them so it probably won't be quite as much of a gap. Do you plan on keeping front camber at -1ish? Seems like that might cause a bit of understeer with more in the back, right?

I read somewhere that a 1" drop on a stock model 3 with 18 aeros gave it 7% more range. Not sure how that'd stack up with wider, less aero 19s on wider tires but it might bring your range back up 10-15 wh/mi.

Hyped to see some more lowered pics after alignment!

Someday I'd love MPP FUCAs but I have other mods to budget for first (like the party box since I don't have track mode)

I'd definitely believe 10-15wh/mi, my commute is pretty consistent and so far it's been showing a 15-20wh/mi drop! Kinda curious how many miles I'd have to drive for the difference to pay off the coilovers... Probably a lot haha

My diy laser alignment was pretty close to spot on, 0.03° driver and 0.05° passenger toe with identical -0.9° camber both sides! Nice to know I can rely on that to do any future changes.

The springs settled almost 10mm over two weeks so I had to readjust the height. Pretty much at the recommended 377mm (F) / 382mm (R) hub to fender height

 

[mkrone]

If you have the budget for it, the 1UP Xtreme duty seems like it would solve the wobble problem with the doubled arms and larger pivot surface. Not cheap though! (my wheel stop is an accessory for the Xtreme duty rack that I made fit on the standard version)


The stealth hitch receiver is a pretty solid snap in and connection (great for confidence!) but does take a bit of force. I half attempted putting the receiver in with the rack attached and it's definitely a no for me, too heavy and awkward. Way less effort to just do them separately.

It's not a huge pain to get the rack on, takes me maybe a minute or two at most. Most of the annoyance is getting the receiver in/out since you pretty much have to crawl around on the floor with the height of the car:

1. Undo half turn fasteners, pull off access panel
2. Pull off rubber stealth hitch plug
3. Push in receiver
4. Pull off key lock cap, push in the lock button, and put the cap back on
5. Reverse process to remove hitch after ride (also slightly annoying to get the key lined up to unlock the receiver)

Hmm yeah that does sound like a pain.. oh well. I’m planning on getting a couple little ramps for the rear wheels when I install the stealth hitch but it sounds like I might end up reusing them every time I put the receiver on. Also in regards to the bike wobble on the 1up, I read somewhere that it helps to position the bike so that the rear wheel is further out and the rear arm doesn’t come up as high on the wheel, so you can bring the front arm equivalently higher up on the front wheel. You may have tried this already though.

I’d love to make the 1up work because of how small it stores and the modular 1-3 bike option. The extreme duty might be overkill for my pivot firebird and my wallet lol

Car looks great!

 

[crsn00]

Also in regards to the bike wobble on the 1up, I read somewhere that it helps to position the bike so that the rear wheel is further out and the rear arm doesn’t come up as high on the wheel, so you can bring the front arm equivalently higher up on the front wheel. You may have tried this already though.

For reference, my bike's wheelbase is 1240mm with 29" wheels. You can see how close it is to the edge of the tray, not much room to adjust side to side!

I think it would help to have the arm up higher on the front wheel to help reduce steering rotation but they aren't long enough to do that with 29" wheels.

I don't want to be too negative, the wobble bothers me and gets some looks from passing cars but I don't think it would actually fail. I've pulled on the bike in the rack and it does seem pretty secure. Even with my experience, I'd probably still choose it again because of the positives and the cost compared to alternatives.

 

[mkrone]

For reference, my bike's wheelbase is 1240mm with 29" wheels. You can see how close it is to the edge of the tray, not much room to adjust side to side!

View attachment 1056701

I think it would help to have the arm up higher on the front wheel to help reduce steering rotation but they aren't long enough to do that with 29" wheels.

I don't want to be too negative, the wobble bothers me and gets some looks from passing cars but I don't think it would actually fail. I've pulled on the bike in the rack and it does seem pretty secure. Even with my experience, I'd probably still choose it again because of the positives and the cost compared to alternatives.

Ah I see what you mean about wheelbase and wheel size. My bike actually has the exact same wheelbase with 29” wheels so it’s a perfect reference.

And yeah I was looking at the Kuat Sherpa 2.0 and the Thule versions but I love how clean the 1up looks, the flexibility to have 1-3 trays, and how small it stores away. I think I’m still leaning 1-up. Thanks for all the info!

 

[GregD60]

For reference, my bike's wheelbase is 1240mm with 29" wheels. You can see how close it is to the edge of the tray, not much room to adjust side to side!

View attachment 1056701

I think it would help to have the arm up higher on the front wheel to help reduce steering rotation but they aren't long enough to do that with 29" wheels.

I don't want to be too negative, the wobble bothers me and gets some looks from passing cars but I don't think it would actually fail. I've pulled on the bike in the rack and it does seem pretty secure. Even with my experience, I'd probably still choose it again because of the positives and the cost compared to alternatives.

Looking at the picture, I see little to no compression on your tires where the arms contact them. Don't be afraid to put some heft into clamping the arms down; it's still a lot less than the force on the wheels and tires when you're riding on a trail. I weigh about 200 pounds and put most of my weight into it when clamping them down. You should definitely see some noticeable deformation of the tires when the bike is clamped in properly.

Also, do you tighten the gold bar knob to the black bar as 1Up recommends in their instructions; it makes a difference in wiggle. See the top of page 5 in their instructions. Here's a link - https://1up-usa.com/content/pdf/2in HEAVY DUTY.pdf
And finally, make sure that the hitch bolt is nice and tight. In my experience, it can work loose, especially on a newer rack. Just check it every once in a while.

P.S. I'm still on my original 1Up rack 15 years later except for the replacement of one tray and one arm due to somebody in a parking lot hitting it, fortunately without any bikes in it. It's been solid!

 

[crsn00]

Looking at the picture, I see little to no compression on your tires where the arms contact them. Don't be afraid to put some heft into clamping the arms down; it's still a lot less than the force on the wheels and tires when you're riding on a trail. I weigh about 200 pounds and put most of my weight into it when clamping them down. You should definitely see some noticeable deformation of the tires when the bike is clamped in properly.

Also, do you tighten the gold bar knob to the black bar as 1Up recommends in their instructions; it makes a difference in wiggle. See the top of page 5 in their instructions. Here's a link - https://1up-usa.com/content/pdf/2in HEAVY DUTY.pdf
And finally, make sure that the hitch bolt is nice and tight. In my experience, it can work loose, especially on a newer rack. Just check it every once in a while.

P.S. I'm still on my original 1Up rack 15 years later except for the replacement of one tray and one arm due to somebody in a parking lot hitting it, fortunately without any bikes in it. It's been solid!

Thanks for the suggestions! I wish there was an easy solution but I don't think there is...

The arms are definitely tight against the tires, to the point that it's often hard to get the arms off the tire when unloading. I tend to run my tire pressures pretty high which is why there isn't much deformation. I always make sure to line up the "spool" between the tire tread, then yank the bottom of the tire outward before tightening the arm to get the maximum compression.

I'm pretty sure the gold bar knob is tight but I'll have to check. I never actually change the angle of the rack so I haven't looked at it in a long time. I've looked at the black bar though and don't see much (any) wiggle there at all.

When pushing and pulling on the bike it's pretty clear the remaining wiggle (after solving the steering movement) is mostly coming from flex in the arms which just happens to be the main area they chose to reinforce with their Xtreme duty rack by doubling them up with spacers in-between.

I don't seem to be the only one having this issue either. Mine is wobbling somewhere between these two, less than the first but more than the second.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mountainbiking/comments/wb47s3/1up_roof_rack_oscillation

https://www.reddit.com/r/mountainbiking/comments/1bw8clr/first_drive_with_my_new_to_me_1up_roof_rack_seems

 

[mk18_obe]

I just picked up some Model Y gemini wheels, they are 19x9.5 and this thread has been helpful to see the comparisons.