48.12 range boost for P3D with PUP?

[ppower]

P3D+ here. I'm on 48.12 and just did a winter 110 mile trip. Outside temp 32. Heat at 65 and manual fan speed 1. 65mph, Chill, EAP, and got 342 Wh/mi average. On the return, did the same return today with temp 39 and averaged 320Wh/mi. So 7 degrees accounts for ~7% efficiency drop?? I don't know. There's a lot of assumption and misinformation about what is driving the range difference. Too many people tout that spreadsheet showing range expectations and say that it is because of 20" wheels, but it looks like there have been high Wh/mi from P- cars, too. I have 20mm rear spacers on and want to see if the 18's will fit now that I have more room for the slop of the wheel barrel to pass over the rear calipers. I can't get anybody to meet up with me yet and do a test fit.

I really think there is an issue with the front motor not fully turning off like it should and does in the S & X. There should be no difference in highway range of a P- and RWD w/ 18's. On the S and X, my understanding is that the rear motor shuts off at speed when in "Range Mode". It would be GREAT if Tesla would come out with that for the D and P to turn off the front motor and "torque sleep" like the others do. Can someone explain Range Mode?

 

[BlueCarNut]

P3D+ here. I'm on 48.12 and just did a winter 110 mile trip. Outside temp 32. Heat at 65 and manual fan speed 1. 65mph, Chill, EAP, and got 342 Wh/mi average. On the return, did the same return today with temp 39 and averaged 320Wh/mi. So 7 degrees accounts for ~7% efficiency drop?? I don't know. There's a lot of assumption and misinformation about what is driving the range difference.

342 Wh/mi sounds pretty bad, especially when it sounds like you were making an effort to be efficient. I haven't done any long-distance driving close to 32deg yet, but I'll be watching to see if I experience the same thing. I guess I'm surprised that slight temperature differences (32 to 39deg) have that dramatic of an effect. When driving at 65mph in mild weather, I tend to get around 275 Wh/mi., so that's a pretty big seasonal range swing.

 

[ppower]

To me, 275Wh/mi is even high when comparing to the RWD with the same rear motor. And when I say averaging 342 that I got, that includes going through a couple of small towns where I boosted range dropping to 45 and 55mph. Most of the time where 65 was consistent, I was over 370Wh/mi. I can't imagine if I were in a truly cold climate.

 

[BlueCarNut]

To me, 275Wh/mi is even high when comparing to the RWD with the same rear motor. And when I say averaging 342 that I got, that includes going through a couple of small towns where I boosted range dropping to 45 and 55mph. Most of the time where 65 was consistent, I was over 370Wh/mi. I can't imagine if I were in a truly cold climate.

I tend to use 250Wh/mi as the reference point so 275 is not great, but for me personally, a 10% drop (if that's all it was) for the P3D+ is reasonable. It's the 350 Wh/mi (or worse) trips that start to get to me.
I'm surprised you didn't get a bigger boost when driving through the small towns. Was that early in the trip and regen was still limited?

 

[mswlogo]

Took my first highway trip with 48.12.1 on Christmas Eve, and on a route where I'd normally expect closer to 300 Wh/mi, I got 264 Wh/mi. I was pleased, since the PUP range penalty is somewhat high, as noted elsewhere. Anyone seen range improvements with 48.x, PUP or otherwise?

Without stating Temperatures, Heat Setting, SOC, Distances and Speeds your data point(s) mean absolutely nothing.

If Tesla made that large an improvement don't you think there would be more news about it and something in the release notes?

I have not seen any difference.

 

[mswlogo]

P3D+ here. I'm on 48.12 and just did a winter 110 mile trip. Outside temp 32. Heat at 65 and manual fan speed 1. 65mph, Chill, EAP, and got 342 Wh/mi average. On the return, did the same return today with temp 39 and averaged 320Wh/mi. So 7 degrees accounts for ~7% efficiency drop?? I don't know. There's a lot of assumption and misinformation about what is driving the range difference. Too many people tout that spreadsheet showing range expectations and say that it is because of 20" wheels, but it looks like there have been high Wh/mi from P- cars, too. I have 20mm rear spacers on and want to see if the 18's will fit now that I have more room for the slop of the wheel barrel to pass over the rear calipers. I can't get anybody to meet up with me yet and do a test fit.

I really think there is an issue with the front motor not fully turning off like it should and does in the S & X. There should be no difference in highway range of a P- and RWD w/ 18's. On the S and X, my understanding is that the rear motor shuts off at speed when in "Range Mode". It would be GREAT if Tesla would come out with that for the D and P to turn off the front motor and "torque sleep" like the others do. Can someone explain Range Mode?

I don't think there is that much misinformation on the site regarding what affects range.

Heater is HUGE and how you manage the heat.
Speed is HUGE.

Ambient is one thing but what were the overnight temps that will impact your efficiency probably for the first hour of driving.

Wide wheels without Aero covers will cost some efficiency.

Why would there be no difference between RWD and AWD on the highway. What cool aide have you been drinking?
You have added weight for 2nd motor and a whole bunch more moving parts on AWD.
Maybe the added weight and more moving parts is more negligible on the less efficient heavier S/X.

BTW using spacers to get 18's on a P3D+ still might not be like a P3D- with 18's because you may be changing the airflow w.r.t. to the body. It may be negligible though. You'd have to do a wind tunnel test

 

[JeffK]

To me, 275Wh/mi is even high when comparing to the RWD with the same rear motor. And when I say averaging 342 that I got, that includes going through a couple of small towns where I boosted range dropping to 45 and 55mph. Most of the time where 65 was consistent, I was over 370Wh/mi. I can't imagine if I were in a truly cold climate.

342 Wh/mi Sounds normal to me with the heat on (P3D+)

 

[ppower]

This is one “experiment” I ran in warmer temperature, no heat, flat terrain (100ft elevation diff), EAP, 56°. 55mph is still 260Wh/mi. At this rate, I estimate that it would take driving down the turnpike at 45mph to reach the efficiency needed for 310 mile range.

 

[Jtt777]

I also think the performance models stated range is not fully correct. I just came back from a pretty long trip in my car and I am seeing about 320 Wh/mi on the way up and 290 Wh/mi on the way back (I think the difference is due to elevation differences). I drove pretty conservatively but did leave the heat on since it is winter and was driving with the 18" aero wheels, covers on.

I don't see how it is possible to get 310 mile range on a performance model. You would need to get 240 Wh/Mi, right? I think we really have a 250 mi range car.

For comparison, my father in law has the RWD long range version, I drove it for a long trip recently. With a more agressive driving style and normal climate settings, similar weather temps, we did a very long road trip and I was getting around 250-260 Wh/mi. I feel it is fair to state a 300 mile range on that car.

I think there does need to be some kind of range mode of the Performance models to make it mimic RWD when you are going on a long trip. I bet AWD suffers some of these losses as well to the front motor as some power must be going there at all times.

It kind of annoys me that they advertise them for the same range when it is clearly not the case as I can attest to from this back to back driving on a road trip.