80+ year old Mother-In-Law 26 solar panels and Two batteries

[idanny76]

In disregards of my advise.... My mother in law decided to get a 25 year Solar lease with SunRun. They installed 26 solar panels and two Powerwall+ batteries. Her system was activated on September 27th and I have the app to monitor the system since she has no clue what anything is. She is 80+ years old and has no Wifi connection, but someone how they manage to get the system to go online. It only goes online sometimes and that's when I get the data.
I know what the Tesla App says about the usage, but it seems ridiculous. She is barely generating any solar power, battery never reaches 100% and most of her consumption is from the grid. When I look at the graph it has empty areas and my guess is that its offline and not recording. I would assume the system is keeping track of the data and when it goes online it should provide all the data. Can anyone help understand whats going on? I cannot ask her anything, as she can barely use her smartphone and doesn't even know how to text.

 

[GWord]

I see what you mean by data gaps. If there is no wifi available then the system has LTE capability. I'm not sure if that's continuous, but presumably it should store this locally until it connects? Maybe someone else can chime in on how that works.

What part of the country is this installed in? Clouds and the short fall days can make a big difference in daily generation. Also, if the system has been turned on in self generation mode, pre PTO, then you're only going to generate what you consume when the sun is shining. I can't tell if that is happening because I only see the house consumption data on the screen. (show us a screen cap of the little sun icon)

Did SunRun set up all the power rate and power plan details in the app for her/you?

 

[idanny76]

I see what you mean by data gaps. If there is no wifi available then the system has LTE capability. I'm not sure if that's continuous, but presumably it should store this locally until it connects? Maybe someone else can chime in on how that works.

What part of the country is this installed in? Clouds and the short fall days can make a big difference in daily generation. Also, if the system has been turned on in self generation mode, pre PTO, then you're only going to generate what you consume when the sun is shining. I can't tell if that is happening because I only see the house consumption data on the screen. (show us a screen cap of the little sun icon)

Did SunRun set up all the power rate and power plan details in the app for her/you?

She lives in Puerto Rico and yes there has been rain and weather not favorable for solar. I dont have solar, but I would think that out of the 5 days I was able to see on the app at least one day should have met her usage. According to the app... the mayority of her usage is being supplied by the utility grid. They set it up for her, but when I asked her for the password to login.... at no surprised she did not know it. So I did a forgot password and was able to reset it through her email. All I have done on the app is just look at the usage. She has two Powerwall batteries, but the app shows one battery. I am assuming the single icon for the battery will show the charge for both? SunRun setup the power rate and power plan. When I found out, she had already done the contract and installations was pending. She said the company and the installers were angels and very honest and nice.... thats all she needed to go ahead with the installation.

Solar Panels (26) Canadian Solar, CS3N-390MS
Inverter 1 x Tesla Powerwall+ 1538000-xx-y
Battery Backup 2 x Tesla, Powerwall 2 AC

 

[idanny76]

Here is her contract redacted
https://pdf.ac/u63KI

 

[GWord]

She lives in Puerto Rico and yes there has been rain and weather not favorable for solar. I dont have solar, but I would think that out of the 5 days I was able to see on the app at least one day should have met her usage. According to the app... the mayority of her usage is being supplied by the utility grid. They set it up for her, but when I asked her for the password to login.... at no surprised she did not know it. So I did a forgot password and was able to reset it through her email. All I have done on the app is just look at the usage. She has two Powerwall batteries, but the app shows one battery. I am assuming the single icon for the battery will show the charge for both? SunRun setup the power rate and power plan. When I found out, she had already done the contract and installations was pending. She said the company and the installers were angels and very honest and nice.... thats all she needed to go ahead with the installation.

Solar Panels (26) Canadian Solar, CS3N-390MS
Inverter 1 x Tesla Powerwall+ 1538000-xx-y
Battery Backup 2 x Tesla, Powerwall 2 AC

Yes, the app will only show one Powerwall although sometimes you will see a 2x (or however many have been installed). Look at the home screen that shows a little house diagram and you should see POWERWALL 2X under the image of the battery.

Honestly, given the state of the grid in Puerto Rico, maybe the install isn't such a bad thing. Stop me if you're an expert already but Powerwall plus solar turns her home into a microgrid in the event of periodic loss of grid (within the limitations of sun and battery availability).

Could you share a screen shot from the SETTINGS / POWERWALL screen? Has permission to export been enabled by SunRun?

 

[idanny76]

Yes, the app will only show one Powerwall although sometimes you will see a 2x (or however many have been installed). Look at the home screen that shows a little house diagram and you should see POWERWALL 2X under the image of the battery.

Honestly, given the state of the grid in Puerto Rico, maybe the install isn't such a bad thing. Stop me if you're an expert already but Powerwall plus solar turns her home into a microgrid in the event of periodic loss of grid (within the limitations of sun and battery availability).

Could you share a screen shot from the SETTINGS / POWERWALL screen? Has permission to export been enabled by SunRun?

Here are the screenshots

 

[idanny76]

Its shows online now. Usually I see no connection and whenever it feels like it goes online.

 

[GWord]

Yeah, there's your 2X Powerwalls in that second screen capture.

Looks like she has generated a pretty decent amount of power for only 9:30am. So big thing I see on the Powerwall screen cap is that the system is configured to only let your MIL's house have access to 20% of the Powerwalls for reducing daily grid draw. 80% is being held in reserve for power outages. That's why you're not seeing much battery usage. This could be good if she frequently has long power outages. If you want to store more solar energy during the day to use when the sun goes down, slide that little slider down some. I keep mine at 30% reserve but I have a pretty good grid. If she is on PREPA's net metering program then it won't matter though. Once the batteries are full, PREPA will keep track of the solar she puts into the grid and credit her power bill for that on a net basis.

 

[idanny76]

Yeah, there's your 2X Powerwalls in that second screen capture.

Looks like she has generated a pretty decent amount of power for only 9:30am. So big thing I see on the Powerwall screen cap is that the system is configured to only let your MIL's house have access to 20% of the Powerwalls for reducing daily grid draw. 80% is being held in reserve for power outages. That's why you're not seeing much battery usage. This could be good if she frequently has long power outages. If you want to store more solar energy during the day to use when the sun goes down, slide that little slider down some. I keep mine at 30% reserve but I have a pretty good grid. If she is on PREPA's net metering program then it won't matter though. Once the batteries are full, PREPA will keep track of the solar she puts into the grid and credit her power bill for that on a net basis.

Why is the app on those screenshots showing consumption mostly from the grid? Right now the status went from Charging to No Recent Data Available.

 

[idanny76]

Here are a couple of things I saw on the contract. There is no positive side for the buyer in this contract. The system will end up costing $110,000 after 25 years. After the 25 years... the system is still not hers and she will have the option to buy it.... lol

- First, the monthly payment increases every year for the 25 year life of the lease.
-Solar equipment cannot be removed unless, you complete the 25 year lease, buy the equipment or pay off the remainder of the lease.
- Once the 25 yr lease is over.... the equipment is not yours and they will sell it to you at the current market value or remove it.
- Leaks on the roof are only under warranty for 5 years after installation
- The yearly monthly payment can be increased even more. If SunRun decides to increase the rates per kWh, your payment will increase the next year.
- If there are any fault on the battery or panels.... they have up to 6 months to repair it in the case parts are not available.
- Leasing companies usually use the cheapest bulk materials to keep cost low.
- It will cost you 3x times as much, if you buy the equipment from the leasing company
- The leasing company will not let you pay off the equipment before 5 years, because they cannot keep the federal rebates if you pay it off sooner. They keep the federal rebates too.
- They say you will not pay the local utility company anything, but the contract states the equipment will only cover 78% of your usage. They also do not guarantee any amount of production.
- They do not guarantee you will have power if the utility service goes out
- If you do not have a battery backup...... at night you will be using your local utility electricity. If its mostly cloudy, you will not generate enough energy and will use be using from your local utility.... Basically, with or without battery and whether its cloudy or sunny, you still have to pay the lease and what ever you consumed from your local utility.
- They will place a UCC-1 registration on your property that will come up when ever you apply for a loan and they run a title search. Basically is a lien on your property. You cannot sell unless you fulfill the 25 years, pay the full lease, convince the buyer to take the over the and get approved for the rest of the lease, or buy the equipment.
- The only way they will remove the equipment is after you complete the 25 years and you decide not to buy the equipment or renew the lease.
- They will not relocate the equipment to your new property. The only way to take the equipment with you, is if you pay for it and hire someone to transfer it. Basically, its not worth it and your house is on the line and even harder to sell.

 

[GWord]

Why is the app on those screenshots showing consumption mostly from the grid? Right now the status went from Charging to No Recent Data Available.

Because by 6PM the sun isn't shining directly on the panels to make power and the 20% of the batteries you have allocated for daily use has been used up. If you adjust that little slider down to like 20% or 30% she might be able to make it all the way through the night on battery (but at the risk of less battery available for a long power outage).

Yeah, those lease terms kind of stink but I guess at this point "it is what it is" so time to make the best of it. Sounds like she has their solar PPA product where she is essentially buying the solar output from "their" panels. Am I understanding correctly that she basically has two power bills: one to SunRun for the solar production and one to PREPA for grid? If grid is more expensive on price per kWh, then lowering that battery reserve will result in lower monthly costs for your MIL.

 

[idanny76]

Because by 6PM the sun isn't shining directly on the panels to make power and the 20% of the batteries you have allocated for daily use has been used up. If you adjust that little slider down to like 20% or 30% she might be able to make it all the way through the night on battery (but at the risk of less battery available for a long power outage).

Yeah, those lease terms kind of stink but I guess at this point "it is what it is" so time to make the best of it. Sounds like she has their solar PPA product where she is essentially buying the solar output from "their" panels. Am I understanding correctly that she basically has two power bills: one to SunRun for the solar production and one to PREPA for grid? If grid is more expensive on price per kWh, then lowering that battery reserve will result in lower monthly costs for your MIL.

I went with a 50/50 on the battery backup reserve. Now when I go into My Home Info, in My Products it only shows Powerwall Gateway. The gateway is the device that provides all the data. My questions is.... Should both batteries be also added in the My products page in settings?

 

[taphil]

My info page only shows the gateway, I have 2x PW too.

 

[GWord]

I went with a 50/50 on the battery backup reserve. Now when I go into My Home Info, in My Products it only shows Powerwall Gateway. The gateway is the device that provides all the data. My questions is.... Should both batteries be also added in the My products page in settings?

I only show the gateway on mine as well. Now that you've changed the reserve percentage, take a look again tomorrow and you should see a lot more battery usage.

 

[Redhill_qik]

My mother in law decided to get a 25 year Solar lease with SunRun. They installed 26 solar panels and two Powerwall+ batteries.

I looked at the lease contract that you posted and it is $291.22/month with annual increases of 1.9%. I don't know what the electric costs are in Puerto Rico are, but was your MIL really paying more than that? The contract said that the annual generation would be 14,561 kWh and that was only 78% of the usage which means that the annual usage was 18,668 kWh. Maybe your MIL has a large house and likes to keep it at 68F with every light on? At least Sunrun is on the hook for all of the maintenance. Have you reached out to them to indicate that the system isn't performing as expected?

I know what the Tesla App says about the usage, but it seems ridiculous. She is barely generating any solar power, battery never reaches 100% and most of her consumption is from the grid.

The Tesla screen shots that you have posted are only of the home usage, what does the solar tab look like?

 

[idanny76]

I looked at the lease contract that you posted and it is $291.22/month with annual increases of 1.9%. I don't know what the electric costs are in Puerto Rico are, but was your MIL really paying more than that? The contract said that the annual generation would be 14,561 kWh and that was only 78% of the usage which means that the annual usage was 18,668 kWh. Maybe your MIL has a large house and likes to keep it at 68F with every light on? At least Sunrun is on the hook for all of the maintenance. Have you reached out to them to indicate that the system isn't performing as expected?


The Tesla screen shots that you have posted are only of the home usage, what does the solar tab look like?

Her bills are about $230-280 and when she uses her Split Inverter A/C unit.... more in the summer time it usually $320-380. She uses a windows unit in her room at night. But the reason she went solar was to be able to use her A/C more without the high cost. I told her to make sure to tell them to install a system that would produce more than what she is using now, so she could have that extra room to use her A/C more. When I saw the contract... it is only going to cover 78% of her current usage. Which it will be 78%.... IF and only IF the weather and everything is working like a clock. We all know the energy production is dependent on so many variables and its very unpredictable. With that said.... her system may not even cover her 78%.

If I go solar.... I better have a system that covers more than my usage to have the extra production for times we have visitors, it gets hotter and A/C usage increases and all the unexpected stuff. Not only will she be paying now her lease of $291, but a bill of the excess usage from her utility company LUMA Energy from Puerto Rico. The other problem I have with the lease..... at any moment they can decide to increase the rate per kWh and her monthly bill can go way higher.

Straight from the lease agreement:

 

[idanny76]

I looked at the lease contract that you posted and it is $291.22/month with annual increases of 1.9%. I don't know what the electric costs are in Puerto Rico are, but was your MIL really paying more than that? The contract said that the annual generation would be 14,561 kWh and that was only 78% of the usage which means that the annual usage was 18,668 kWh. Maybe your MIL has a large house and likes to keep it at 68F with every light on? At least Sunrun is on the hook for all of the maintenance. Have you reached out to them to indicate that the system isn't performing as expected?


The Tesla screen shots that you have posted are only of the home usage, what does the solar tab look like?

Here are screenshots of the solar tab. The system goes from charging to standby and then no data available, Why?

 

[GWord]

Here are screenshots of the solar tab. The system goes from charging to standby and then no data available, Why?

That's pretty decent production but at least half is being sent back to the grid. Does her SunRun contract net that against what LUMA would otherwise bill? Seems like the production might be close to the household usage (although there are a bunch of data gaps, as you note).

 

[Redhill_qik]

Her bills are about $230-280 and when she uses her Split Inverter A/C unit.... more in the summer time it usually $320-380. She uses a windows unit in her room at night. But the reason she went solar was to be able to use her A/C more without the high cost. I told her to make sure to tell them to install a system that would produce more than what she is using now, so she could have that extra room to use her A/C more. When I saw the contract... it is only going to cover 78% of her current usage. Which it will be 78%.... IF and only IF the weather and everything is working like a clock. We all know the energy production is dependent on so many variables and its very unpredictable. With that said.... her system may not even cover her 78%.

If I go solar.... I better have a system that covers more than my usage to have the extra production for times we have visitors, it gets hotter and A/C usage increases and all the unexpected stuff. Not only will she be paying now her lease of $291, but a bill of the excess usage from her utility company LUMA Energy from Puerto Rico. The other problem I have with the lease..... at any moment they can decide to increase the rate per kWh and her monthly bill can go way higher.

Straight from the lease agreement:

View attachment 861153

That clause for after the initial term of 25 years and you can terminate the lease at that point with no buyout. Your MIL will be 105 at that point, so..... During the term it i a 1.9% increase/year. It is interesting that they chose these numbers as 1.9% compounded over 24 terms is 1.571 and multiplying by $291.22 = $457.51.

Weird that the 1.9% isn't in the right cell, might be the PDF site that you were using though as there is some other broken formatting in the document.

Sounds like she is overpaying somewhat, but she does get a battery system for when the power goes out, has a known rate increase per year versus the giant increases that Puerto Rico is seeing and Sunrun is on the hook for all maintenance including battery replacement. IMHO, the extras might make this not that bad of a deal, but any buyer of the property will need to assume the lease.

You need to get Sunrun to live up to their service statement on the first page "We monitor the system to make sure that it is working properly."

 

[jjrandorin]

Most of the usage is coming from the grid and not the batteries because the batteries are currently setup to only provide 20% of their stored power, holding the rest in reserve.

Unless I am mis remembering, Puerto Rico just came through some fairly extreme weather conditions, so trying to look at any sort of production and say "its normal" or "its not normal" during those times is not appropriate.

As for the contract, as was already stated, "it is what it is", its already signed, and there is nothing you can do about that portion of it unless you want to try to take them to court for being predatory or something (saying that your mother in law was not capable of making a financial decision).

Unless you actually are paying for that, I would let that part go. She made that decision, you may not like it, it may not even be great for her, but she didnt consult you before doing it, and unless she is not mentally capable of making her own decisions, she made that one on her own so digging through it isnt going to help you, or her.

Of course, everyone deals with these things differently, but I dont see a good outcome with you focusing on the contract other than conflict with her, or making her feel uncomfortable.