Never thought of it this way before: it used to be said that people don't think about how much a car cost in terms of the total price but rather how much they have to pay at the end of the month. I'm retired and don't do a lot of driving but still I'm seeing about a hundred dollar saving per month on my Tesla app. Wouldn't this be a huge incentive to drive Tesla vs. an equivalently priced car given same size features etc.?
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About $100 off one's monthly car payment
- Thread starter Ridgeline
- Start date
Not really; $100 per month is $3.33 per day. That is not even the price of a cup of coffee. When you factor in that you are probably paying more to insure a new vehicle any savings evaporates. It will take time for the the consumer to catch up with the shift in technology.
Ford experienced this when they started offering the F150 pickup truck with a turbocharged V6 engine. Eventually enough Ford truck buyers tried, liked the improved fuel economy and performance of the turbocharged V6 that the V8 engine is no longer mandatory in the mind of many Ford truck buyers.
If Toyota only builds, sells hybrid vehicles (including some with a plug) then die hard Toyota buyers are going to be driving a hybrid vehicle even if they never thought they would buy a hybrid.
Within the next decade fuel economy standards and emission standards are going to force most vehicles to be hybrid or plug-in hybrid designs. From there it is a short leap to a fully zero emission vehicle such as an EV.
Those younger drivers who are now driving the family's hand me down 15 year old Toyota Prius are going to be buying new vehicles someday. They drive like madmen, just wait until they are driving Teslas.
Ford experienced this when they started offering the F150 pickup truck with a turbocharged V6 engine. Eventually enough Ford truck buyers tried, liked the improved fuel economy and performance of the turbocharged V6 that the V8 engine is no longer mandatory in the mind of many Ford truck buyers.
If Toyota only builds, sells hybrid vehicles (including some with a plug) then die hard Toyota buyers are going to be driving a hybrid vehicle even if they never thought they would buy a hybrid.
Within the next decade fuel economy standards and emission standards are going to force most vehicles to be hybrid or plug-in hybrid designs. From there it is a short leap to a fully zero emission vehicle such as an EV.
Those younger drivers who are now driving the family's hand me down 15 year old Toyota Prius are going to be buying new vehicles someday. They drive like madmen, just wait until they are driving Teslas.
TarmacSurfer
Member
Negotiating based on a monthly payment means you can’t afford it.
Always negotiate on total price including rate. You’ll come our way head long-term. Wherever the monthly payment lands, it lands - and you should never be paying minimum anyway. If you have to, you can’t afford it.
Simple rules but it’s the way I was taught by my dad and it’s always worked.
Always negotiate on total price including rate. You’ll come our way head long-term. Wherever the monthly payment lands, it lands - and you should never be paying minimum anyway. If you have to, you can’t afford it.
Simple rules but it’s the way I was taught by my dad and it’s always worked.
You’ll find people arguing both sides of this pretty strongly. Tons of factors go into obviously (gas vs electric, insurance, tires, etc). Your personal factors really make the difference.
a true $100 a month savings difference is nothing to scoff at IMO
Yeah, not sure about you, but Tesla insurance here, for Model Y and Model 3 are about $2k more per year. lol. Any gas savings quickly is evaporated. Then factor in the cost of installing a Lvl 2 charger at home, increased frequency of tire changes on EVs... and it is about the same at the end of the day.
If someone REALLY cared about gas savings, and you are driving less than 50k miles per year... you would just get a PHEV or a Hybrid Prius.
Nevermind that a Hybrid Prius/Sonata/Accord costs less than a Model 3, and Hybrid CRV, Santafe, etc cost less than a Model Y.
The big reason why many in my circles are getting Tesla's and EVs is because they love new tech... and they LOVE free money from the government.
The one exception is perhaps someone who ALWAYS gets a highlight car, MB, BMW, Lexus, etc... and goes down to a Tesla... and just replaces them every two years... in that case, sure.
But for the vast majority of Americans, the best financial decision is to keep driving their existing car until it costs too much to repair, and then upgrade.
so yeah, Tesla's are freaking cool... but very few people actually save money once EVERYTHING is factored in. (oh and of course you don't have the stealership experience.)
I agree with pretty much everything you said except you have no idea how many people fall into each bucket.
I don’t think we can definitively say “very few” people are saving money.
Thanks. I am basing it off of the average of 12k to 15k miles per year, in the united states, where gasoline prices are reasonable, which means outside of California.... but even Cali, while gas prices are higher, so are electric rates.
When I did the calculations, it was only after driving more than 20k miles per year, that net/net, an EV would be less per mile than something like a 30 MPG efficient ICE car. I did not bother to run the calculations on a plug in prius or another hybrid that is in the high 30s, low 40s MPG because it would literally kill the value proposition for a Tesla.
The only other EV that I kind of settled on was the Hyundai Ioniq 6 versus the Model 3, and that is because auto insurance for the Hyundai was consistently $50 to $80 per month less, the tax credit is applied up front towards the lease/cap cost (which you can then buy out), and 2 years free of Electrify America charging (which is at a local Walmart which we visit every few days anyway). Then, only with the longer warranty from Hyundai, would I say I am coming out ahead.... (versus another car)...
(but I will not be bringing up that driving our existing VW Passat that gets 32 to 33 MPG is by far the best financial decision, especially since it is 100% paid off lol.)
What I am waiting on is for Tesla to drop prices another 3 to 5k on the Model 3 (before the Highlands come out) and possibly the same on the Model Y. And of course, our state is throwing rebates of between $2k and $3k, which even apply to a lease.
But once again, if we add a new Tesla... it sure won't be because we will be saving any money. lol. $1,000 or more per year extra for auto insurance (versus other vehicles), $1,500 to install a new Lvl 2 charger (our breaker panel is on the complete opposite side of the house than the garage), so that is $4,500 extra that we would be paying for a base Model 3 over the next 3 years. throw in an extra set of tires versus a regular hybrid... (25k to 30k interval on EV vs 50k on regular car)... and that is easily another $1,000. (and before someone says but you have to do oil changes and stuff, pretty much every new vehicle we are considering comes with free scheduled maintenance included for at least 3 years).
so.... $5,500 buys 1,571 gallons of gasoline at $3.50 per gallon, or 55,000 miles at 35 mpg... and that is assuming charging is 100% free. lol.
Yeah I’m not arguing the accuracy for your situation, everything you posted makes sense but that’s for you.
I’m just saying you can’t project that onto the masses. My situation is very different and I’m saving money currently and project to save money going forward compared to the the alternative vehicle I was considering. There are people on both sides of the saving spectrum and everywhere in between.
I think TCO and when I look at my use case, EVs are way ahead when it comes to that.
My Y, original SR cost me CAD $56k plus tax, financed at 2.4% - the lowest interest on any of my debts, so absolutely no rush to pay it off before other debts including mortgage. With taxes that's $63k.
A similarly sized SUV that consumes around 8L/100km will cost me $12k per 100k km at today's prices of ~$1.50/L. Prices will continue to rise, we still have ~$100/t (~22c/L in carbon pricing to be added by 2030. Another 17c is expected based on clean fuel standards being brought in. A cost of $16k/100k km isn't out of the question.
Splitting the difference and averaging to $14k/100k km, a vehicle that I would expect to last 300k km would cost about $42k in gas alone vs about $4.5k in electricity at 10c/kWh. We have all in electricity coming at half that price by November, so costs could be lower.
My Y has a $37.5k advantage just in fuel. A vehicle that can tow what my Y does runs for north of $40k CAD (plus tax and dealer fees), so over $80k lifetime with oil changes vs $68k for my Y.
Yes there are other variable costs, but based on my driving, that's about $1k in savings per year I expect the vehicle to last. Fortunately insurance is about the same (injury insurance costs more than collision) so my Tesla does save me some money over the long term.
I have Statefarm and my insurance is much less than my Lexus. I never leased my Lexus or any cars as I drive too much. I am saving a ton of money but that is my personal experience with insurance, gas, maintenance and monthly payment. I do not pay for charging either, its free for me- charging at work for free and free at places I frequent for running errands. It is financially a wise decision for me and I love the tech and the instant speed.
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What kind of Lexus? And I am guessing that Lexus cost more than the Tesla?
I am 40, wife is 39, no claims in last 10 years, perfectly clean driving records, qualify for all of the discounts, etc... but here in PA (and likewise, NJ, NY, FL and many other states) pretty much everywhere it is significantly more. Geico in particular hates Tesla and by adding a Model 3, our premium would go from $2k per year full coverage for new cars, up to $4.5k per year by simply replacing a new SUV with a new Model 3 and keeping $500 deductibles. lol.
The ONLY way I can get Tesla premiums to be reasonable is to decline breakdown, rental, towing, and raising Comprehensive up to $1,000 deductible and collision to the max of $2,500.... only at that point, would the total increase would be under $1,000 per year.
If Tesla Insurance would be here, perhaps the costs would be different.
And if I could charge for free... both at work and elsewhere, for sure I would get one.... the charging costs, are the biggest expense, especially in places where energy prices are high.
What was insulting is that a friend in Las Vegas, was paying higher rates to charge at home, than what we pay at super chargers here in PA. lol.
Our local electricity rate, the cheapest we have is around $.17 kwh... and as more and more EVs come on, and we have more and more mandates on "clean energy" those prices are only going to shoot higher.
Of course, every situation is different and the state and federal incentives make the switch more tolerable. (until the next big power outage such as when everyone here lost power for between 7 and 14 days during Hurricane Sandy.)
If Tesla does end up dropping prices further within the next week or so, I would most certainly pick one up, get my free money from the State, take the deduction from the Feds, and then transfer to business and write it all off. lol. Then rinse and repeat.
mstatkus
Member
I didn't have an issue with insurance. In fact my 01 Durango was $69.50 a month and my Model Y was $71. The Model 3 came in about the same.
I called Allstate since I don't drive the Durango and got a family multi-car relief on it for $50 every 6mo to cover the 'ugly' things I might want to do with a junk rig. Insurance is 100% zip code based. Bad zip code, bad rate.
I called Allstate since I don't drive the Durango and got a family multi-car relief on it for $50 every 6mo to cover the 'ugly' things I might want to do with a junk rig. Insurance is 100% zip code based. Bad zip code, bad rate.
It was an SUV. RX350. And Yes, it cost more than Tesla and insurance was more. I am in NY and prices are generally expensive. For my situation it was worth it.
