ABRP routing question

[Neilio]

HI guys,

A curious question about ABRP: Does it take into account the charging curve of the vehicle?

The reason I ask is every plan I do seems to have charging stops at various states of charge but none at really low SoC like 10%, which I would expect if you're looking for the faster route because you'll get a quicker charge before restarting your journey. Is it a setting I'm missing or something because I can't really work out why it's trying to make me stop with 60% SoC sometimes. Surely that's overall a slow process?

 

[vanjwilson]

HI guys,

A curious question about ABRP: Does it take into account the charging curve of the vehicle?the

The reason I ask is every plan I do seems to have charging stops at various states of charge but none at really low SoC like 10%, which I would expect if you're looking for the faster route because you'll get a quicker charge before restarting your journey...

I've only been using ABRP for a few months, first with my wife's i3 and for a couple of months with my Model Y, but this is the pattern I see.

It always tries to have you arrive at your final destination with a very low state-of-charge (SOC). I think this is under the assumption that you can charge overnight at your destination on a Level 2 charger of some sort, and that will be cheaper for you and better for the battery.

For instance, I'm planning a hiking trip this weekend, and I just plotted the route again with my current SOC, 77%. This time, it actually wants me to go out of my way a little to charge at a Supercharger on the edge of town, from 70% to 82%, so that I arrive at the destination with only 22% SOC. This is even though though the meeting place for the hiking group is just down the street from the Asheville Supercharger! (And where I was planning to charge anyway.)

You can go into the Setting before you plot a route, and adjust things like the slider between "Fewer Stops-Shorter Legs", and the minimum arrival SOC for "Destination Arrival SoC" and "Charger Arrival SoC". Playing with those may help you find a plan that better suite your preferences.

 

[MrBadger]

A curious question about ABRP: Does it take into account the charging curve of the vehicle?

Tesla Battery Charging Data from 801 Cars

Different batteries have different characteristics when it comes to charging; this goes for the various Tesla battery models too. Through the ABRP data collection by generous users, we have quite a lot of real-world data to base our models for use in the route planning, and in this post we give y...

forum.abetterrouteplanner.com

Less specifically, but a worthwhile browse

Blog | Iternio

forum.abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[GRiLLA]

Yup, define your minimum state of charge. You will only actually see this if it is defining the charge at the previous stop, e.g. on a long trip with 2 charging stops the first will give you enough to arrive at the second with your minimum state of charge. For the first stop it'll be the charging that's before your %age, this can be quite a way if that's where the chargers are.

One thing I would note from a recent trip to Scotland, ABRP does assume you will drive at the speed limit (with your offset %age) on every road. This is quite unrealistic for many roads NSL where you just can't go that fast. Also it's power usage doesn't understand single track roads with passing places, and the stopping and accelerating can use a lot more power than it planned.

 

[Neilio]

Yup, define your minimum state of charge. You will only actually see this if it is defining the charge at the previous stop, e.g. on a long trip with 2 charging stops the first will give you enough to arrive at the second with your minimum state of charge. For the first stop it'll be the charging that's before your %age, this can be quite a way if that's where the chargers are.

One thing I would note from a recent trip to Scotland, ABRP does assume you will drive at the speed limit (with your offset %age) on every road. This is quite unrealistic for many roads NSL where you just can't go that fast. Also it's power usage doesn't understand single track roads with passing places, and the stopping and accelerating can use a lot more power than it planned.

My minimum SoC is set to 10% it still wants me to charge en route when the battery is at 50-60% and this is with journey set to fastest time. I don’t get how this can be efficient when the same journey has chargers further up when the SoC will be lower and the charging speeds quicker

 

[GRiLLA]

My minimum SoC is set to 10% it still wants me to charge en route when the battery is at 50-60% and this is with journey set to fastest time. I don’t get how this can be efficient when the same journey has chargers further up when the SoC will be lower and the charging speeds quicker

Here's an example, notice how at the second and third supercharger it's arriving with 10%, or whatever other minimum charge your defined, and it's set the duration at the charger before to meet this. The first stop is at 22%, as it couldn't control the initial charge but couldn't get further without going below 10%.

I guess if you are allowing third party chargers of different speeds the formula is far more complex, the charge rate at 50% on a 350KW charger would still be faster than the rate at 10% on a 50KW charger.

Maybe share an example where you think it's wrong. You can always tell it to skip chargers and prefer the one's you think are better, and see what that does to the overall time.

 

[Neilio]

Good idea, next time I think "huh" I'll share.

What prompted was it by planning a route form Brentford to Manchester with SoC at 95%. It told me to stop at Warwick where the SoC was in the fifities. I would have expected a Hilton Park or even a Keele stop as the battery would have been at a lower SoC then and would have charged quicker. As it was set to fastest route with arrival SoC for both charger and destination at 10%.

As it happened, thanks to the seemingly permanent roadworks on the M4 and M6 and their endless slow zones ignored all charging stops and YOLO'd it Got to Manc without stopping and with an 11% SoC anyway!

 

[phillcom3]

HI guys,

A curious question about ABRP: Does it take into account the charging curve of the vehicle?

The reason I ask is every plan I do seems to have charging stops at various states of charge but none at really low SoC like 10%, which I would expect if you're looking for the faster route because you'll get a quicker charge before restarting your journey. Is it a setting I'm missing or something because I can't really work out why it's trying to make me stop with 60% SoC sometimes. Surely that's overall a slow process?

tell teh car to go that low in setigns and it will.

 

[Neilio]

tell teh car to go that low in setigns and it will.

It doesn’t

 

[GRiLLA]

Good idea, next time I think "huh" I'll share.

What prompted was it by planning a route form Brentford to Manchester with SoC at 95%. It told me to stop at Warwick where the SoC was in the fifities. I would have expected a Hilton Park or even a Keele stop as the battery would have been at a lower SoC then and would have charged quicker. As it was set to fastest route with arrival SoC for both charger and destination at 10%.

As it happened, thanks to the seemingly permanent roadworks on the M4 and M6 and their endless slow zones ignored all charging stops and YOLO'd it Got to Manc without stopping and with an 11% SoC anyway!

When I do the same it suggests Keele, but it only gets there with 1% left. Your start and finish or other settings will have pushed it below 10% I guess. Maybe it was routing you fastest down M6 Toll, which leaves Hilton Park being a detour.

 

[phillcom3]

It doesn’t

how strange!. it does for me

 

[Neilio]

When I do the same it suggests Keele, but it only gets there with 1% left. Your start and finish or other settings will have pushed it below 10% I guess. Maybe it was routing you fastest down M6 Toll, which leaves Hilton Park being a detour.

View attachment 695201

Yes could be. I'll check if Warwick is the next furthest along on the route when I get home. My car and Tesla Nav never think I can make Keele but I have done at least that every time. IN fact with a full tank I can just about YOLO it to Manchester in most weather. Oh and yes, I had cargo (which I recorded the weight of) and set the speed as speed limit plus 10% so I guess these things would easily have pushed me below 10% in the calcualtions.

 

[Neilio]

Ah, just calculated my route home (with SoC currently at 81%) and it's suggested Rugby as a stop. But on the same route I can get to Northampton (17%) and Newport Pagnall (13%) with a lower SoC. I wonder if this is because the charging curve doesn't really ramp down unitl after 50%? Not sure but in my head I always think 10% is the best SoC to aim for before I start fast charging

 

[GRiLLA]

Ah, just calculated my route home (with SoC currently at 81%) and it's suggested Rugby as a stop. But on the same route I can get to Northampton (17%) and Newport Pagnall (13%) with a lower SoC. I wonder if this is because the charging curve doesn't really ramp down unitl after 50%? Not sure but in my head I always think 10% is the best SoC to aim for before I start fast charging

It's pretty marginal, but from the graph below there's perhaps a tiny advantage in using the v3 at 50% than v2 at something lower. Perhaps the chargers are also slightly closer to the route so less time spent getting there. Even without their calculation I would take, far better to get on a V3 at a site with 12 than risk having to share with another car at a smaller SuC.

 

[GRiLLA]

Ah, just calculated my route home (with SoC currently at 81%) and it's suggested Rugby as a stop. But on the same route I can get to Northampton (17%) and Newport Pagnall (13%) with a lower SoC. I wonder if this is because the charging curve doesn't really ramp down unitl after 50%? Not sure but in my head I always think 10% is the best SoC to aim for before I start fast charging

Also, for me it's saying to stop at NP on 8%, clearly something different in our settings ...

 

[Neilio]

Good point about rugby being a v3 I hadn’t considered that. I think I’m clearly doing something wrong with my settings. Does yours look like this:

 

[GRiLLA]

 

[GRiLLA]

Good point about rugby being a v3 I hadn’t considered that. I think I’m clearly doing something wrong with my settings. Does yours look like this:
View attachment 695703

Or maybe better, here's the link to my plan

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[Fursty Ferret]

Isn't that charging curve only for SR, though? I was told that the LG batteries in the LR never really get much above 100kW regardless of the charger.

 

[GRiLLA]

Isn't that charging curve only for SR, though? I was told that the LG batteries in the LR never really get much above 100kW regardless of the charger.

It says LR at the top, but it will be Panasonic batteries. I've had 250KW out of mine (briefly).