Actual range less than 1/2?

[OCJeff]

I’m reading all this and can’t comprehend how Tesla sells consumers on false facts; One is paying lots of money thinking one is going to get over 300 mile range; Only to find out after you buy the MYLR your lucky if you get 260 (more or less) if you drive like grandma.
Isn’t one of the reasons for buying a MYP is for the speed? I truly think that’s the fun part, knowing you can keep up with the AMG ‘s instead of following along with the Prius’s

To be fair, the C63S (2018-2021) average about 18 MPG based on Fuelly data. With a 15 gallon tank that adds up to 270 miles per tank. If you run it to empty. Almost about the same as the MY. The GLE 63 AMG gets 19 mpg at best on the highway. So for the performance it's actually pretty good. And you wake up every day with as much fuel (energy) as you like.

Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S MPG - Actual MPG from 20 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S owners

The most accurate Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S MPG estimates based on real world results of 309 thousand miles driven in 20 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG s

www.fuelly.com

Having said that, I do think they need to revamp how they rate BEV's EPA numbers. They should give a realistic 75 MPH range that people can compare across vehicles. That would really help clear up some of the confusion around range for road trips versus range around town where BEV's shine for efficiency.

 

[jsight]

To be fair, the C63S (2018-2021) average about 18 MPG based on Fuelly data. With a 15 gallon tank that adds up to 270 miles per tank. If you run it to empty. Almost about the same as the MY. The GLE 63 AMG gets 19 mpg at best on the highway. So for the performance it's actually pretty good. And you wake up every day with as much fuel (energy) as you like.

Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S MPG - Actual MPG from 20 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S owners

The most accurate Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S MPG estimates based on real world results of 309 thousand miles driven in 20 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG s

www.fuelly.com

Having said that, I do think they need to revamp how they rate BEV's EPA numbers. They should give a realistic 75 MPH range that people can compare across vehicles. That would really help clear up some of the confusion around range for road trips versus range around town where BEV's shine for efficiency.

I feel like it should become standard to publish city, highway, and combined ratings to make it clear. There should be new standards for them too, as more is a great time to revamp testing procedures.

 

[avs007]

I’m reading all this and can’t comprehend how Tesla sells consumers on false facts; One is paying lots of money thinking one is going to get over 300 mile range; Only to find out after you buy the MYLR your lucky if you get 260 (more or less) if you drive like grandma.
Isn’t one of the reasons for buying a MYP is for the speed? I truly think that’s the fun part, knowing you can keep up with the AMG ‘s instead of following along with the Prius’s
But I guess most don’t mind making pit stops every 20 minutes ..
Or maybe spend twice as much and buy a Model S Plaid and get the 400 miles

There are so many variables tho... I have this problem with ICE cars too... I never get anywhere near the EPA rated fuel economy on any of my cars.. I've watched my instant and average fuel economy on the trip computer. There were two major things that killed my fuel economy... Hills, and oxygenated fuel.. There's a 5 mile stretch of a 6% grade on my commute on the freeway, that really brings down my average. For a while I could directly compare oxygenated to non-oxygenated fuel since there were a few gas stations that were outside the urban area that required it. Then it became a seasonal thing... Then eventually it was mandated year round.

With my Tesla, I think a lot of people overlook temperature, weather, and terrain. My consumption jumps to > 400 wh/m when I go up the hills near my house. Likewise, my consumption goes way up when it rains, or when it's windy.

As far as making pit stops every 20 minutes... If you watch Bjorn's 1000km challenge videos, he actually did a base line with a gas hybrid car. Over a 1000km trip, it was actually only 10-20 minutes faster then the Tesla Model 3. He said there were lots of times, when driving the hybrid, he had to make a pit stop, becuase he had to use the bathroom, or to grab something to eat... And unlike an EV, when he made those pitstops, he didn't usually need to get gas, whereas with an EV, when making those same stops, he could charge at the same time. Some of the videos were quite interesting/entertaining... The gas hybrid make the journey in like 9 hours 10 minutes I think, the Tesla Model 3 did it in 9 hours 20 minutes, IIRC. He said as long as you can make the trip in 10 hours or less, you would be golden.

 

[WhiteWi]

My kids and my bladder want to stop before my car runs out of electricity. And that is about 180-200 miles mark. Done multiple 2k round trips and never had a problem with available range and charging Infrastructure.

 

[Daekwan]

There are so many variables tho... I have this problem with ICE cars too...

Exact opposite for me. My previous two vehicles were 2018 CRV.. and 2007 Corvette. Both were absolutely outstanding on fuel economy and regularly beat their EPA estimates. I was commuting 100 miles daily and the CRV would return almost 35mpg when cruising on the highway. The Vette would do over 30mpg cruising on the highway that's the tall final gear and big torque V8. Cruising at 65mph in the Vette means the engine is only turning around 1400rpm in top gear.

If anything I've found EV's are mostly to achieve their city rating. ICE vehicles are mostly to achieve their highway rating. The reason for each is pretty obvious.. due to the stop & go nature and lower speeds in the city.. vs the fairly constant speed + multi-geared transmission on the highway. Pretty common to see 8, 9, even 10speed transmissions in ICE vehicles these days.

I do agree that I cant out-drive my bladder.. which means I'm going to stop every 2-3 hours of driving anyways. But still requires a bit of coordination as Superchargers aren't exactly off every highway exit. I do my best to time it so I that I pull into the station, plug in and run to the bathroom. Generally speaking, 15mins charging is more than enough charge to make it next SC or bathroom break. I don't mind stopping to charge, but Im not even going to sit here and pretend like my Y gets anywhere near the EPA-rated range or that it's somehow okay. I drive pretty lightly and my lifetime avg is 258wh/mi.. I believe EPA rating for my car is something like 220wh/mi. After 14,200 miles of driving.. my OEM tires are reading 7/32 to 8/32 all around. Really shows how gentle I drive.

 

[Msicario]

To be fair, the C63S (2018-2021) average about 18 MPG based on Fuelly data. With a 15 gallon tank that adds up to 270 miles per tank. If you run it to empty. Almost about the same as the MY. The GLE 63 AMG gets 19 mpg at best on the highway. So for the performance it's actually pretty good. And you wake up every day with as much fuel (energy) as you like.

Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S MPG - Actual MPG from 20 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S owners

The most accurate Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG S MPG estimates based on real world results of 309 thousand miles driven in 20 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG s

www.fuelly.com

Having said that, I do think they need to revamp how they rate BEV's EPA numbers. They should give a realistic 75 MPH range that people can compare across vehicles. That would really help clear up some of the confusion around range for road trips versus range around town where BEV's shine for efficiency.

That would be being to honest; Consumers would know exactly what they are paying for.

I have a 5 year old Prius; I drive it from Anaheim CA. to Chandler AZ. 380 miles to visit my Daughter & Grandkids;
I use up about 9 gallons each way at about 75-85 MPH, in just over 5 hours.
It’s an 11 gallon tank, so I still have two bars left, with no stops.
I think I would have to make two stops in a MYP and perhaps get there in over 6 hours.

 

[OCJeff]

That would be being to honest; Consumers would know exactly what they are paying for.

I have a 5 year old Prius; I drive it from Anaheim CA. to Chandler AZ. 380 miles to visit my Daughter & Grandkids;
I use up about 9 gallons each way at about 75-85 MPH, in just over 5 hours.
It’s an 11 gallon tank, so I still have two bars left, with no stops.
I think I would have to make two stops in a MYP and perhaps get there in over 6 hours.

Yes it could be a challenge. Depending on the stop options one stop may do it. Why does ABRP say?

 

[Alowan]

Thanks for some excellent replies. i agree that the info About actual range could be more transparent.

These replies do However align With my initial research/Reading that it should be able to make the trip in one go.

 

[OCJeff]

Thanks for some excellent replies. i agree that the info About actual range could be more transparent.

These replies do However align With my initial research/Reading that it should be able to make the trip in one go.

The nice thing is that the car will show you the expected battery level once you reach your destination once you plot a route/destination (at the bottom of the route plan initially).

Also, and better yet, if you are going to possibly be short on getting to your destination he car will warn you that you should drive under XX mph for the remainder of the drive. So it will try to help you manage your battery usage based on tour planned destination.

 

[avs007]

Exact opposite for me. My previous two vehicles were 2018 CRV.. and 2007 Corvette. Both were absolutely outstanding on fuel economy and regularly beat their EPA estimates. I was commuting 100 miles daily and the CRV would return almost 35mpg when cruising on the highway. The Vette would do over 30mpg cruising on the highway that's the tall final gear and big torque V8. Cruising at 65mph in the Vette means the engine is only turning around 1400rpm in top gear.

If anything I've found EV's are mostly to achieve their city rating. ICE vehicles are mostly to achieve their highway rating. The reason for each is pretty obvious.. due to the stop & go nature and lower speeds in the city.. vs the fairly constant speed + multi-geared transmission on the highway. Pretty common to see 8, 9, even 10speed transmissions in ICE vehicles these days.

I'm guessing you have no hills on your commute? If so, this is exactly what I was talking about. My dad was a GM gearhead, so I've driven many GM smallblock V8s. I've even plugged in my OBD-II scanner into said cars, and looked at the engine load reading... When cruising on flat freeway, the load is very low... But even when turning 1500rpm, when I hit any kind of incline, the load reading ramps up, and the fuel economy tanks. I did a test drive one time while watching these numbers... I can average 35mpg on flat freeway over the course of 10 miles... As soon as I hit one of the elevation changes, I watched my RPM. It didn't blip... But the load went up, and my instant fuel economy dropped to < 10mpg, and the accumulated average dropped to 15. By the end of the commute, it climbs back up to 21 or so on the first drive... (My commute is around 80 miles) But after repeated drives, the average will settle around 15-17.

Keep in mind, my point is just that EV's are even more finicky with these types of variables than ICE cars. So if I can't even get the EPA highway rating on any of my ICE cars, there's an even smaller chance I'd get it with an EV.

 

[Vaillant]

The nice thing is that the car will show you the expected battery level once you reach your destination once you plot a route/destination (at the bottom of the route plan initially).

Also, and better yet, if you are going to possibly be short on getting to your destination he car will warn you that you should drive under XX mph for the remainder of the drive. So it will try to help you manage your battery usage based on tour planned destination.

One other thing to add is there is an energy consumption screen that plots your expected battery charge level for your trip. You can look at it occasionally during your drive to see if you are getting better or worse range than the car’s estimator expected. I find typically that up to 70 mph, you’ll do better, over 75 mph you’ll do worse, and somewhere in between is the crossover.

Also, please note that while the current temperature is taken into account, if the weather ahead suddenly gets colder or there is a severe wind, the estimator could be off a fair bit. This is where checking the energy consumption plot is helpful to see how you’re fairing.

 

[avs007]

Yes it could be a challenge. Depending on the stop options one stop may do it. Why does ABRP say?

2 stops... 6 hrs 15 min.

 

[Fourdoor]

I’m reading all this and can’t comprehend how Tesla sells consumers on false facts; One is paying lots of money thinking one is going to get over 300 mile range; Only to find out after you buy the MYLR your lucky if you get 260 (more or less) if you drive like grandma.
Isn’t one of the reasons for buying a MYP is for the speed? I truly think that’s the fun part, knowing you can keep up with the AMG ‘s instead of following along with the Prius’s
But I guess most don’t mind making pit stops every 20 minutes ..
Or maybe spend twice as much and buy a Model S Plaid and get the 400 miles

If you can drive 240 miles in 20 min you need a job as a professional driver (or bender of time and space)...

Personally I find Tesla advertised range to be one of its worst "word of mouth" sales tactics. Saying 330 miles of range on your order web page looks good... until someone does a search and finds thread after thread of people saying "why did I run out of power after driving 200 miles"???

I think the upside of claiming 330 miles is less than the downside of owners reporting what the reality is.

Keith

PS: I love seeing a 70 mph range test where other manufacturers like Porsche meet or exceed their EPA range (rated 240 highway, actual 297 highway at 70 mph) while Tesla misses by a mile.

 

[Fourdoor]

My kids and my bladder want to stop before my car runs out of electricity. And that is about 180-200 miles mark. Done multiple 2k round trips and never had a problem with available range and charging Infrastructure.

For me it is my wife's bladder that determines range. So for me 160 to 200 miles (2 to 2.5 hours at 80 mph) of real world range is just fine... but the advertised range is deceptive and disappointing. In an ideal world each trip would start with a full to near empty leg of 240ish miles followed by legs of around 150ish miles (80% down to near empty), but in the real world on a road trip driving distances are much more likely to be determined by supercharger location. If my route has a supercharger at 180 miles and the next after that 260 miles, I end up stopping early at the 180 mile point rather than freaking my wife out (she has the range anxiety problem) by slowing down a bit and going for the 260 mile supercharger.

Keith

 

[GtiMart]

Here's what I see if I look at the Tesla site for the Model 3:

EPA estimate is clearly mentioned. Now if someone does not look up what this means, can we blame the seller?

The manual says this:

It also contains tips to optimize consumption.

My point is: Tesla are not guaranteeing that you'll do 576km, they say the EPA estimate comes up to 576km. If people take that and assume it's always true, there's a problem. As I've said in another post, winter tests could be performed, better information could be provided, that's all true.

 

[avs007]

PS: I love seeing a 70 mph range test where other manufacturers like Porsche meet or exceed their EPA range (rated 240 highway, actual 297 highway at 70 mph) while Tesla misses by a mile.

It's a two sided coin tho... The Porsche Taycan is supposed to charge super fast, and have great range... But when Bjorn did an Arctic Circle race, the Taycan kept cold-gating causing it to charge slow... And often times, had to charge > 90% to make it to the next charger... So by the end of the race, the Tesla Model 3 SR+ ended up beating the Taycan by OVER AN HOUR. So in that test, (M3 SR+, Mach E, and Taycan), the car with the shortest range, beat all the cars.

I'm not excusing Tesla's range limitations, just saying there's more than just range... Same with story with the EV6. That thing is supposed to be awesome on paper too. But that had thermal problems with the battery. Even when Bjorn was navigating to a fast charger, it kept scavenging heat from the battery to warm the cabin, making it so the battery was at 0 degrees C upon arrival... Likewise, in the summer, bjorn found the battery kept overheating when charging if you had the climate control on, as it seemed it couldn't cool the battery and the cabin at the same time. He had to turn climate off, to get the battery to stop thermal gating.... He even found when fast charging was done, the battery so was so hot, the motors were thermal limited to 60kw when he jumped back on the freeway.

I also forget which car, but he found that a lot of other EVs, when the car reported 100% SoC, it wasn't actually 100%, as there was one car he was able to charge to 106% according to the diagnostic data. So these manufacturers are under-stating the battery capacity. He theorized it was to hide the first year battery degradation, such that over time, 100% SoC would be closer to actual 100% SoC.

And I think it was the Mercedes EQ series, where if you navigated to a fast charger directly, the car would NOT precondition the battery. You had to navigate to some location that was too far to make it on the current SoC, and let the car offer you Fast Charger locations... Then and only then, would it precondition the battery for you...

 

[avs007]

For me it is my wife's bladder that determines range. So for me 160 to 200 miles (2 to 2.5 hours at 80 mph) of real world range is just fine... but the advertised range is deceptive and disappointing. In an ideal world each trip would start with a full to near empty leg of 240ish miles followed by legs of around 150ish miles (80% down to near empty), but in the real world on a road trip driving distances are much more likely to be determined by supercharger location. If my route has a supercharger at 180 miles and the next after that 260 miles, I end up stopping early at the 180 mile point rather than freaking my wife out (she has the range anxiety problem) by slowing down a bit and going for the 260 mile supercharger.

Keith

Charging to 80% each time, and running it down low is not really ideal tho... Watch Bjorn's 1000km challenges... The best times are achieved when you only charge to what is necessary. Usually to 50 something percent... You want to stay in the fastest charging curve. That's what the Taycan's demise was in the races. The Taycan kept having to be charged to >80% sometimes 90%. It takes a LOT longer to charge from say 60% to 80% then it does from 10% to 50%. There were lots of clips in his Arctic Circle races, where he would pass his friends in other EV's that were stuck charging to a much higher SoC..

 

[Fourdoor]

Charging to 80% each time, and running it down low is not really ideal tho... Watch Bjorn's 1000km challenges... The best times are achieved when you only charge to what is necessary. Usually to 50 something percent... You want to stay in the fastest charging curve. That's what the Taycan's demise was in the races. The Taycan kept having to be charged to >80% sometimes 90%. It takes a LOT longer to charge from say 60% to 80% then it does from 10% to 50%. There were lots of clips in his Arctic Circle races, where he would pass his friends in other EV's that were stuck charging to a much higher SoC..

I should have mentioned that charging time is variable and also determined by wife factors more than by optimizing travel time I would charge more often and to lower SOC's if traveling alone on a "speed run". I used to do cross country road trips in our Chevy Bolt, trust me I know about optimizing charge vs drive time

Keith

Worst "wife moment" on a road trip was one time in the Bolt we did a LONG charging session due to needing to shoot a large gap between chargers, when we were almost finished charging (over an hour) my wife decides she wants to eat lunch...

 

[vegasko]

We own 3 Teslas.
We are driving them only here around the city.
My daily commute is 20 miles.
Charging always up to 90%.
But i have to charge it every 3-4 days because percentage will be down to 20-25%.
It is not issue for me but what happened to projected range?
My co-workers who owns Teslas complain a lot about it. Some of them are selling them and buying ICE again.
Even if Tesla says projected range is 200 miles i would be still buying it but lets just to be honest

 

[DanDi58]

We own 3 Teslas.
We are driving them only here around the city.
My daily commute is 20 miles.
Charging always up to 90%.
But i have to charge it every 3-4 days because percentage will be down to 20-25%.
It is not issue for me but what happened to projected range?
My co-workers who owns Teslas complain a lot about it. Some of them are selling them and buying ICE again.
Even if Tesla says projected range is 200 miles i would be still buying it but lets just to be honest

Why not just charge every night like Tesla recommends?