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Zero Degree Battery Performance & Snow Tires

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One major question and one minor question I had about Tesla's prior to buying my 2023 Model Y last June related to winter. The major question was cold weather performance. The minor question was about snow tires.

TIRES

Snow tires are the easy one so I'll get them out of the way. I've lived my entire life in the midwest, rather flat, but cold and snowy. Never had snow tired. Never cared. I wondered why everyone said you needed snow tires for the Teslas. Now here's my opinion after some ice/snow driving. Snow tires are probably safer and likely a good idea. We have 1-2 inches of snow/ice on the roads in central Wisconsin right now due to our recent storm. I'm doing fine with my factory tires, but the extra weight of the vehicle does seem to make it slide more. The traction control and antilock breaks work well, but I think stopping would be much better with winter tires. Also, with the massive torque the Teslas have, it would be easy to lose traction on ice when accelerating. If you are mildly careful its not really an issue.

That said, I don't have the money or storage space for a second set of tires, but if I could I think I would get winter tires. Minus ice, I don't know that I'd really care.

COLD WEATHER BATTERY PERFORMANCE

Battery in Cold Weather. This week has given me the test I've been looking for. I took two trips in zero degree temps and here's what I experienced.

My average Wh/mi over 7 months is 279. So I haven't gone a full season. I expect I'll average out around 285 wh/mi after a full 12 months of driving, but we'll see.

I charged in my insulated garage and preheated my car while it was 0.0 F outside. Then drove 18 miles to the gym and normal speeds on dry roads with nominal wind. My Wh/mi were 404.

After sitting in the parking lot at the gym for 2 hours in 0.0F temps I preheated the car and drove the 18 miles home. Same route, basically the same conditions. My Wh/mi were 416.

I'm sure there are many more scientific posts on this but here are my conclusions.

Assuming my Battery is 81,000 I could travel:

290 Miles on a single charge under normal conditions or 88% of the advertised 330 mile range. This has been my real world experience.

200 miles on a single charge after being preheated in the garage on a 0 degree day or 60% of the advertised 330 mile range.

195 miles on a single charge after the battery preheats itself after siting for a few hours outside on a zero degree day or 59% of the advertised 330 mile range.

So, first hand experience. Cold makes a difference (as I was told it would). 32 degrees and up the difference was marginal. But down to zero degrees and its noticeable.

I have a 400 mile work trip on Wednesday and it's predicted to -6 to 12 degrees. This will be my first longer trip in weather this cold. There are chargers roughly every 45 minutes, but I am hoping to not need to stop at each one. ;-)

Anyway, if anyone out there had the same questions I had, this is what it's like to drive in winter weather. If your round trip is less than 100 miles and you have your battery at 80%, it really won't matter much. I expect if you take longer trips, like me, it'll mean an extra 20 minutes and one or two extra stops at chargers... but it's not a big deal to me. I love the car. But winter does cause a dent.
 
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This morning it was -8F and I drove a round trip 60 miles. Flat, nominal wind, decent roads. I got 422 Wh/mi. That would give me about 192 miles on a full charge. Heater at 74 F. It used 34% of the battery on a trip with would use about 20% in summer. :cool:
 
When I took my 23 mile drive to work yesterday at -2 that usually uses 9% battery it took 11% instead. I will take that. I had to explain to a few people at work that the battery lasts a lot longer than the media leads them to believe.
Math is not my strength. What is the efficiency difference if in regular weather you used 9% but in -2 you use 11%?

For me, in zero degree weather, I'm seeing about a 30% drop in range. I'm able to make it work, but I feel that is significant.
 
Math is not my strength. What is the efficiency difference if in regular weather you used 9% but in -2 you use 11%?

For me, in zero degree weather, I'm seeing about a 30% drop in range. I'm able to make it work, but I feel that is significant.
Math is not my best either. I would need to look in the car if it did not delete the data. Bottom line is that if I let the car precondition before leaving and getting the battery up to operating temperature it did not lose as much efficiency.
 
Math is not my best either. I would need to look in the car if it did not delete the data. Bottom line is that if I let the car precondition before leaving and getting the battery up to operating temperature it did not lose as much efficiency.
yes, that has been my experience too. Tomorrow I will drive almost 500 miles (Madison - Milwaukee - Eau Claire - Madison) for work. I will leave with 100% battery. In temps above 40 degrees I could do those 500 miles with two charging stops of around 10 minutes each (gaining 40% of my battery each time). Tomorrow I'm not that optimistic. I think I will have to charge double. Maybe stop 3-4 times (gaining 40% of my battery each time.). If that's true, while not a problem for me, it's not inconsequential either. It'll cost me about $20 more, add an additional 20-30 minutes to my trip.

In this zero degree weather I will be functioning with a car that has an effective range of 200 miles rather than 300 miles. So at least for me, I saw little impact from temperature until it got below freezing. We'll see, I'll try and report how my trip actually goes tomorrow. FWIW? This is not intended to be criticism of Tesla, rather simply my experience with the car, which I love.

My gas cars get worse mileage in winter too, I've just never cared to figure it out because gas stations are everywhere.
 
yes, that has been my experience too. Tomorrow I will drive almost 500 miles (Madison - Milwaukee - Eau Claire - Madison) for work. I will leave with 100% battery. In temps above 40 degrees I could do those 500 miles with two charging stops of around 10 minutes each (gaining 40% of my battery each time). Tomorrow I'm not that optimistic. I think I will have to charge double. Maybe stop 3-4 times (gaining 40% of my battery each time.). If that's true, while not a problem for me, it's not inconsequential either. It'll cost me about $20 more, add an additional 20-30 minutes to my trip.

In this zero degree weather I will be functioning with a car that has an effective range of 200 miles rather than 300 miles. So at least for me, I saw little impact from temperature until it got below freezing. We'll see, I'll try and report how my trip actually goes tomorrow. FWIW? This is not intended to be criticism of Tesla, rather simply my experience with the car, which I love.

My gas cars get worse mileage in winter too, I've just never cared to figure it out because gas stations are everywhere.
As you stated gas cars get worse gas mileage as well...and they have to stand out in the cold and fill gas. And can't really warm the vehicle.
 
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yes, that has been my experience too. Tomorrow I will drive almost 500 miles

Math is one of my strong sides, or maybe the only one :)

Well, besides that the battery will only be preconditioned to the temperature where regen works ok.

If you have a Tesla with the heat pump, then it can use the heat stored in the battery to warm the cabin with the heat pump.
This will give a extreme reduction in the consumption the really cold days wheb the heat pump can not use the outside air as the source to grab heat ( about below -10C or ~10- -15F).

I actually have quite some drives in extreme cold with a consumption not that much higher than the summer consumption!
(Of course there is a increased air reistance but I would say we mostly drive a little slower in the real winter so it evens the thicker air out.)

I live around the Artic circle and we regularly have really cold innthe winter.
We recently had two weeks with quite cold, like -40C / -40F.
Today were back at -30C (-23F) or slightly below. By law we nees to use real winter tyres (M+S). I always use studded tyres.

So, supercharging before a drive in real cold weather will make the car go almost like in the summer despite -30C.

From home, charging with maximum availabe power so late that the charging barely finishes before the drive (preferably with the car inside if possible) will maximize the cell temp before the drive.

I recently drove 300km in -32C to -30C ( -26F to -22F) and had 220Wh/km when arriving home (from the supercharge until the battery did not have any heat left to deliver, it was 210-215Wh/km and in the summer it’s usually 190-200Wh/km so ~ 10% more at very cold weather.

I also have a trip with my M3P withnthendrive in one direction with a supercharged heated Battery and the drive back when the battery had no heat left.
No wind, same temp and sea level at atart and stop and also same avg speed and same top speed onnthe drive.
190Wh/km with the warm batt and 260Wh/ km with the cold battery.
Only difference was the battery temp.

Try it, you will be shocked! :)
 
You should put the car in chill mode so it backs off the torque.
Chill mode will also help in cold weather by allowing the heat pump to draw more energy from the battery pack. See the third bullet the Tesla manual:

Cold weather can increase energy consumption because more power is required for driving, cabin and Battery heating. Follow these suggestions to reduce energy consumption:

  • Use seat heaters to keep warm. Seat heaters use less energy than the cabin heater. Lowering the cabin temperature and using seat heaters reduces energy consumption (see Operating Climate Controls).
  • Slow down your driving and avoid frequent and rapid acceleration.
  • If your vehicle is equipped with a heat pump (to determine if your vehicle has a heat pump, touch Controls > Software > Additional Vehicle Information), you can improve the efficiency of the cabin heating by reducing your selected acceleration mode (see Acceleration Modes). This allows the heat pump system to take more heat from the Battery to efficiently heat the cabin, instead of maintaining the Battery's ability to provide peak acceleration performance. This helps to maximize driving efficiency in colder weather. Note that when subsequently increasing the acceleration mode, the Battery requires time to warm up before the increased level of acceleration is available.
 
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I travel 37.5 miles to work. This week we are in the teens and lower (F) and I go from 90% down to 40% by the time I get home. I have the M3RWD LFP with the heat pump, which I have set to 68*, also with seat and steering wheel heated. I have left sentry on but will likely turn it off when cold like this.

I precondition for departure in the AM as well as for leaving work in the PM.

In warmer temps I go from 90% down to 60%. So, yeah, at least a 20% drop due to sub freezing temps. Definitely something to keep in mind.
 
I traveled 512 miles today in Wisconsin. The day started at -8 degrees and ended at 11 degrees. I averaged 392 Wh/hr. My overall average is 282 Wh/hr. So today I saw a range loss of 28%. Pre-Warmed car. Heat pump. Chill Mode. 74 mph.
When and how did you charge?

Pre-warming does not heat the battery so the heat pump can use the heat from the battery.

Charging late, so the charging just finishes before the drive + charging with high power will make the battery warmer. That heat the heat pump can use, which lowers the consumption/ increase the range.
 
When and how did you charge?

Pre-warming does not heat the battery so the heat pump can use the heat from the battery.

Charging late, so the charging just finishes before the drive + charging with high power will make the battery warmer. That heat the heat pump can use, which lowers the consumption/ increase the range.
Yes, that’s part of my charging strategy. In this‘s case I charged the battery to 100% and timed it to finish coinciding with my departure. The battery 100% I got in the car and left within five minutes because of the cold and increased battery usage instead of spending about 40 minutes to charge it superchargers over the 500 miles I spent an hour and 45 minutes charging it superchargers.

I have a Tesla wall charger and charge overnight at home. I always set the charge to finish coinciding with whatever time I need to leave.
 
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So today I saw a range loss of 28%. Pre-Warmed car. Heat pump. Chill Mode. 74 mph.
Pre-warming does not heat the battery so the heat pump can use the heat from the battery.

Are we referring to pre-warming as in turning on the heater from the app, or is this preconditioning? As I understand it, the latter does warm the battery and uses power from wall, so the battery stays fully charged.

IMG-3416.jpg
 
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Are we referring to pre-warming as in turning on the heater from the app, or is this preconditioning? As I understand it, the latter does warm the battery and uses power from wall, so the battery stays fully charged.

IMG-3416.jpg
Yes, this is what I use in addition to having the charging finish in connection with my departure. I thought the preconditioning also warmed the battery. Maybe it doesn’t, but I was under the impression it did.