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An electric Grand Prix? EU wants F1 to set up new championship series

Discussion in 'News' started by jcstp, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    I expect pit lane performance and safety will be a challenge but entertaining to watch; I wonder if they'll consider some kind of on-track battery swap.
     
  2. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    would be good testbed for fastcharging too!!
     
  3. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Not so much on the car though, in the pits maybe, they'd still have to swap the battery.

    Why?
    Assuming a Tesla sized pack of 50kwh (not pushing the chemistry to the slow ends), to charge that in say, 5 mins whilst the car is lapping the circuit you'd need to supply 600kw for that 5 mins. That means fat wires:

    At 240v that's 2,500A - Impossible
    At 1,000v that's 600A - Hard
    At 4,000v that's 150A - Chunky but manageable.

    Turn that into a 10-second on-track recharge similar to the old refueling and it's mental!

    At 240v that's 75,000A - Impossible
    At 1,000v that's 18,000A - Still imposible
    At 4,000v that's 4,500A - Nope
    At 10,000v that's 1,800A - Nope
    At 25,000v that's 720A - Nope
    At 50,000v that's 360A - Stand well back

    And this assumes that the battery chemistry and charging system can be configured to make this work, e.g. if you were to put all the Tesla cells in series you'd still only have a 25KV pack and the current passing through the cells; 720A - instant Magma

    Super capacitor anyone?
     
  4. zack

    zack Member

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    If the race is under 200 miles, theoretically a super-sized pack could be built (similar to the Model S design, perhaps double- or triple-thick?) that could complete the race without recharge. We're talking heavy vehicle or battery swap. That's the only two possibilities without new battery technology.
     
  5. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    #6 jcstp, Apr 4, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
    ok, that will give an other meaning to "lightning fast" pitstops
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    This is the type of charge time that AV + AltairNano have shown and an ideal arena in which to push that technology I think.
     
  7. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    We've talked about this several times before, but clearly battery swaps (I really want to see this done by the pit crew) and (moderate) fast charging of the spares. I'd really like to see this happen. Of course nay-sayers are concerned the EU with force this on all motor sport.
     
  8. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Yes, for F1 style racing battery swap is a requirement really. For a 24 hour endurance race super-fast charge could work.
     
  9. JimmWilks

    JimmWilks Member

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    Check out the comments on the Mail article if you want to be amused/depressed by unbelievably predictable FUD etc.
     
  10. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I think there are a few very interesting options.

    #1 Straight battery swaps in the pits. Have as many batteries as you need. Hopefully a 200 mile race would use 3-6 battery swap pit stops.

    #2 Battery swaps in the pits with limited batteries. When you swap the battery, you take the tired one and charge it as fast as you can. If a 200 mile race is about 2 hours long and you swap 5 times then each battery runs on the track for 20 minutes, rotating through 3 batteries would let each one charge for 40 minutes before being put back in the car.
     
  11. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Well I made this reasonable (and redundant for this thread) comment as Doug from Silicon Valley, CA.
    I think comments are moderated, so it hasn't shown up yet. But perhaps we can make and vote up reasonable comments and vote down the FUD. Clearly we wouldn't have a race with 8 hour battery charges. I think these kind of comments are just misguided, so perhaps we can educate here. They easily accept the concept of refueling petrol in the pit, but perhaps are unaware of the concept of fast battery swaps.
     
  12. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Good luck getting a pro comment past the Daily Wail mods...
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  14. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Or, for car makers/EV-converters/prototypers who find it difficult to implement battery swapping (they already have enough things to worry about), it would be allowed to swap cars if the same driver continues. For cases where the driver needs to be exchanged, during a single pit stop either the car or the driver can swap, but not both in the same stop. This way, there is a guaranteed and fair continuity for timing and comparison. (Idea comes from the discussion in the TG thread.)
     
  15. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    Could they fastcharge with 2 wires? One left, and one on right side?
    Doing this while changing drivers and tires!
    a bit like in GT1 and GT3 races!
     
  16. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    I think the challenges of battery chemistry and charger technology will match the challenges of power transfer. But F1 evolves quickly.
     
  17. AndrewBissell

    AndrewBissell Member

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    The latest page of comments is 100% positive.
     
  18. suxxer

    suxxer ElektroVolt

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    #19 suxxer, Apr 7, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
    There is a project for the Le Mans 24h Race. They want to have a quick-swap battery pack (floor-mounted). It's rumored that it's going to be a slide-in / slide-out swap, so they can change the batteries in under 5 mins. At Le Mans the pit stop times are not so important - the car just has to hald for 24h. And assuming that electric cars will have lower break-down rates, the chances of scoring are quite intact.

    Not sure if it's this one:
    http://www.green-gt.com/index.htm
    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/235804/electric_le_mans_racing_car.html
     
  19. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    It's from Courage. Discussed in other threads.
     

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