Any advise on purchasing a used Tesla from the experts;-)

[HankLloydRight]

I don't think this is a good deal.

Of course you don’t. We get it. The Model S could be $69.95 and you’d still find ways to make it sound horrible. You thread-crap in every single discussion when someone is looking specifically for a Model S... even after they’ve said they like the looks better and need the space. Let it go already dude.

The market sets the price... it has nothing to do with the efficiency of the NUMMI plant.

Also it’s not $7k to enable AP1.

 

[PhilDavid]

Here's a well equipped CPO 85D with a 4 year CPO warranty for $45K:

Model S 85D 5YJSA1H21FF094076 | Tesla

 

[PhilDavid]

Of course you don’t. We get it. The Model S could be $69.95 and you’d still find ways to make it sound horrible. You thread-crap in every single discussion when someone is looking specifically for a Model S... even after they’ve said they like the looks better and need the space. Let it go already dude.

The market sets the price... it has nothing to do with the efficiency of the NUMMI plant.

Also it’s not $7k to enable AP1.

So does this mean you are NOT selling your Model S for a Model 3 after all the efforts by Troy to point out why the Model 3 is better?!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I don't think this is a good deal.

• The car is too expensive for what you get. It would cost $7,000 to enable Autopilot on this car. Therefore you would be paying 46+7= $53,000 compared to 42,900 + 5,000 Autopilot -3,750 tax credits= $44,150 for Model 3 MR. It would cost you $8,850 more.

AP1 would've cost $2500 to enable. If added later, then $3000.

 

[Troy]

AP1 would've cost $2500 to enable. If added later, then $3000.

You are right. AP1.0 was cheaper. Thanks for the correction. Here is the new version:

• The car is too expensive for what you get. It would cost $3,000 to enable Autopilot 1.0 on this car. Therefore you would be paying 46+3= $49,000 compared to 42,900 + 5,000 Autopilot -3,750 tax credits= $44,150 for Model 3 MR. It would cost you $4,850 more.

 

[hybridbear]

I really like the red one but I don’t know about a 2015??

A 2015 is the same as a 2016 with the nosecone. Tesla doesn't make changes for the model year like other companies. The model year of a Tesla is also set only by the manufacturing date. A car manufactured on 12/31/15 was a 2015 and a car manufactured on 1/1/16 was a 2016 even though the cars were otherwise identical. But a 2015 will be cheaper to insure and possibly cheaper for license plates depending on how GA charges those fees. If you're going to keep the car a long time then you'll also win in the depreciation game.

I was wondering about the advanced/enhanced autopilot after 2016 models? My cousin has one & mentioned this but she’s more clueless than me!! Lol

This hardware is known as AP2.0. The newest cars come with AP2.5 hardware. Both systems can be purchased with EAP (Enhanced Autopilot) and FSD (Full Self Driving).

Are those additional auto pilot hardware 2.0 features worth it?

For me the absolutely are! I just bought a used Model S with AP2. I previously had a Model S with AP1. AP2 is much better and will continue improving. There will be no more improvements to AP1 performance.

Definitely noting that! Autopilot is a feature I would want!! That’s the main reason I’m getting this vehicle, for my longer work commute! ;-)

I'd definitely recommend AP2 for a long commute. If you want AP2 then a Model 3 is probably the best chance for you to get it. I know you don't like the look of the Model 3, but I'd suggest not writing it off just because of the looks. If the driving experience and AP is important for you for your commute then I'd recommend that you drive an AP1 Model S first. Then go to the local Tesla Store and drive a Model 3 with AP2. Ask the Tesla employee who accompanies you to explain how AP2 and AP1 differ and have him/her help you to see the additional functionality of AP2 in action during your drive. Then you can go back and drive the AP1 car again to compare and decide if you'd be content with lesser features or not.

I got a 2014 S85 autopilot and a new 3D. If you really like the S, which is a great highway cruiser with lots of space for the kids, I would look for a CPO. You can't beat that warranty. Tesla changed a on board charger (worth $3k) and panoramic roof a few months after the original warranty expired on our S. I was glad I had a CPO.

If it were me, I would look for a 2016 S85D with next gen seats as they are more comfy than the older ones. For example: Model S 85D 5YJSA1E28GF128133 | Tesla

Lots of used S in California since the carpool sticker expired on all models registered in 2016 and prior. The 85 batteries seem to hold up pretty well too.

AP2 cars are still expensive used. Good luck.

I agree completely. If you're set on the S and will be satisfied with AP1 then I'd recommend CPO for the warranty, within reason depending on the cost. CPO cars will be more expensive, so you have the weigh the extra cost versus the warranty peace of mind. The point about the seats is important too. Be sure to compare the seat comfort. Be sure to go for a long enough drive that you can really get a feel for the seats. Tesla employees are usually pretty good about letting customers do longer test drives or even do an overnight test drive so that you can properly assess the car. The short drive planned route that many dealerships offer is worthless for truly assessing a car.

 

[gprabu]

AP1 would've cost $2500 to enable. If added later, then $3000.

Most of the time if it was or is CPO it will be enabled by Tesla during their resale process. Thats what my sales rep mentioned to me.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Most of the time if it was or is CPO it will be enabled by Tesla during their resale process. Thats what my sales rep mentioned to me.

The car the OP originally mentioned is not a CPO and it was mentioned earlier that AP has not been enabled.

 

[TonyT]

I would definitely get that over a 3. Once the Y comes out the 3 will see a massive depreciation hit and a hatchback with twice the cargo room will always have a market with both families and Uber/Lyft/taxi drivers, especially when you factor in free supercharging and 8 year unlimited mileage powertrain and battery warranty, while the 3 "pays" for charging and has a limited powertrain/battery warranty that stops at 100K for the Standard and Mid-range and 120K for the Long range.

I currently drive a used 2014 P85+, the car has been bullet proof, I got it off eBay and I am pushing 80K + miles with the only issue being a $3 door handle microswitch (which I replaced) and a $35 windshield washer motor (which I replaced), so I'm out ~$40 since the warranty expired.

My wife has the 90D 2016.5, (new nose cone and AP1) and nothing has been an issue on her car. Also I am a prior owner of a 2013 P85, which we sold after 50K miles, the only issue it had was a door handle LED that burned out, was replaced under warranty.

Other stuff, get additional CR2032 batteries for the key fobs, and replace the tires as needed. Also if you have a sunroof, you need to clean and lubricate the tracks occasionally.

Things in the Model 3 that caused me pause to buy: 1. inferior warranty 2. no hatchback 3. lower quality steel body verses aluminum. 4. less cargo space 5. Model Y coming with proper hatch. 6. Truck coming which will replace my Model S and my Toyota FJ, 7. No sunroof 8, no air suspension 9. I've added too many aftermarket things to go backwards (stereo upgrades, security cameras, hitches, lighting, USB power outlets, etc... 10. It's a gorgeous car, and I didn't want to pay $70K for a new Model 3 that didn't tick all the boxes above for me.

Get the S and if you get a P model, you will get to see all the 3's you want, they will just be in your rear view mirror. Also if you don't live in an area with crime (like SF) then you don't need sentry mode (your in GA - 9mm works way better - no self respecting thief is going get scared off by a flashing light and a alarm) and in my house no damn dog is riding in my S, so you don't need dog mode either. I have a truck for my furry 120 lb wet muddy dog that smells like - a dog and he won't fit in a Mode 3 either.

Don't let the scratches scare you, everyone will eventually get them and any good paint shop can make those go away.

Good luck.

Can you give details about where you bought the microswitch? I was trying to buy a new cable from tesla and was not working with a parts guy who would sell to me like they were supposed to. I didn't have time to deal with him, and would rather buy some new switches to replace all of mine rather than $30 for each new cable. I'm fine soldering.

 

[Ostrichsak]

You are right. AP1.0 was cheaper. Thanks for the correction. Here is the new version:

• The car is too expensive for what you get. It would cost $3,000 to enable Autopilot 1.0 on this car. Therefore you would be paying 46+3= $49,000 compared to 42,900 + 5,000 Autopilot -3,750 tax credits= $44,150 for Model 3 MR. It would cost you $4,850 more.

...and in the end they may end up with a car that doesn't meet their needs as far as size (both for occupants & storage) and doesn't meet their opinion on appearance and feel so... what's your point? Not everyone makes decisions based purely on cost.

You also don't know what their tax situation is and maybe they don't have the tax liability to fully utilize that credit. Who knows? I don't and I'm not sure how you do either for your examples.

Not everyone needs a Model 3 just like not everyone NEEDS a Model X or Model Y. You're trying to shoehorn a car onto someone who has already expressed in a nice way they prefer the look of the Model S. All of your word walls are falling on deaf ears so just take the L on this one and move along.

Since you are so focused on price though I see zero mention of resale value. None. Your new $50k Model 3 will be worth MUCH less in three years than a used $50k Model S that has already taken the largest hit in depreciation. If you're going to be tunnel-visioned on the finances at least consider the entire story and not just the portions that justify your own purchase.

 

[Tadders]

One semi related question. If someone buys an S private party from the original owner, can the second owner still add extended warranty or maintenance to the car with Tesla?

 

[RedLoubs&wine]

A 2015 is the same as a 2016 with the nosecone. Tesla doesn't make changes for the model year like other companies. The model year of a Tesla is also set only by the manufacturing date. A car manufactured on 12/31/15 was a 2015 and a car manufactured on 1/1/16 was a 2016 even though the cars were otherwise identical. But a 2015 will be cheaper to insure and possibly cheaper for license plates depending on how GA charges those fees. If you're going to keep the car a long time then you'll also win in the depreciation game.

This hardware is known as AP2.0. The newest cars come with AP2.5 hardware. Both systems can be purchased with EAP (Enhanced Autopilot) and FSD (Full Self Driving).

For me the absolutely are! I just bought a used Model S with AP2. I previously had a Model S with AP1. AP2 is much better and will continue improving. There will be no more improvements to AP1 performance.

I'd definitely recommend AP2 for a long commute. If you want AP2 then a Model 3 is probably the best chance for you to get it. I know you don't like the look of the Model 3, but I'd suggest not writing it off just because of the looks. If the driving experience and AP is important for you for your commute then I'd recommend that you drive an AP1 Model S first. Then go to the local Tesla Store and drive a Model 3 with AP2. Ask the Tesla employee who accompanies you to explain how AP2 and AP1 differ and have him/her help you to see the additional functionality of AP2 in action during your drive. Then you can go back and drive the AP1 car again to compare and decide if you'd be content with lesser features or not.

I agree completely. If you're set on the S and will be satisfied with AP1 then I'd recommend CPO for the warranty, within reason depending on the cost. CPO cars will be more expensive, so you have the weigh the extra cost versus the warranty peace of mind. The point about the seats is important too. Be sure to compare the seat comfort. Be sure to go for a long enough drive that you can really get a feel for the seats. Tesla employees are usually pretty good about letting customers do longer test drives or even do an overnight test drive so that you can properly assess the car. The short drive planned route that many dealerships offer is worthless for truly assessing a car.

Wow! So important and so much to think about! I thought I knew what I wanted! I’m just realizing how some 2016’s look like a 2017 & some like a 2015! It’s all starting to make more sense! I thought I was just confused! But now I know that the facelift was mid year!!! Well it’s a very good point about finding a 2016 with the without the nosecone! But also pretty key when it comes to depreciation and insurance with a 2015! Especially if they look the same! I liked the way the 2016 drove, but I’m also coming from a BMW X6, hence big difference!

Did you purchase your used Tesla via the CPO program? Are used model S’s with AP2, like a unicorn? I can’t believe I’m still debating& searching for this Tesla!!! Lol!

Once again! Much appreciation to you all for everything!!

 

[RedLoubs&wine]

One semi related question. If someone buys an S private party from the original owner, can the second owner still add extended warranty or maintenance to the car with Tesla?

I’m totally new to this all (& haven’t found my Tesla as of yet;-)& almost everything I’ve learned & gained has been Through my recent research and picking all of these guys brains...with that being said...
I Understand it as long as the Tesla isn’t out of warranty. I was told it’s best for you to ask the previous owner to purchase it& it will transfer with the car! The only time you can’t is if the car has passed through a 3rd party/used car dealership! But I’m Sure any of these guys can confirm my understanding! Hope that makes sense!?

 

[XCare EV]

One semi related question. If someone buys an S private party from the original owner, can the second owner still add extended warranty or maintenance to the car with Tesla?

According to their contract, it states the following:

"This Vehicle ESA applies to a Vehicle sold by Tesla directly to You (or a subsequent owner to whom this ESA is validly transferred during the Agreement Period or sold by Tesla during the Purchasing Period)"

I believe you have to purchase it during or before the ownership is transferred to the second owner.

You can also look into getting "X-Care EV Protection" - we mirrored the ESA in exclusions and have a $100 deductible per visit rather than $200. We also do not limit who can purchase the service agreement. Whether you bought the car new from Tesla, from a dealer or from a private individual - you are good.

We should be live in AZ soon so feel free to submit your info over to us and we can let you know once we are live in AZ. [email protected]

 

[MorrisonHiker]

According to their contract, it states the following:

"This Vehicle ESA applies to a Vehicle sold by Tesla directly to You (or a subsequent owner to whom this ESA is validly transferred during the Agreement Period or sold by Tesla during the Purchasing Period)"

I believe you have to purchase it during or before the ownership is transferred to the second owner.

You can also look into getting "X-Care EV Protection" - we mirrored the ESA in exclusions and have a $100 deductible per visit rather than $200. We also do not limit who can purchase the service agreement. Whether you bought the car new from Tesla, from a dealer or from a private individual - you are good.

We should be live in AZ soon so feel free to submit your info over to us and we can let you know once we are live in AZ. [email protected]

Originally, it had to be purchased by the first owner but they changed that a while back. Dealers and cars purchased from dealers can't buy an ESA but cars bought from individuals can have the ESA added as long as the original warranty is still active:
Extended Service Agreement

Can anyone purchase an Extended Service Agreement?
Owners (excluding 3rd party dealers and cars purchased from a 3rd party dealer) with Model S or Model X cars subject to the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, which are still within the eligible purchase period can purchase the Extended Service Agreement.

 

[RedLoubs&wine]

Here's a well equipped CPO 85D with a 4 year CPO warranty for $45K:

Model S 85D 5YJSA1H21FF094076 | Tesla

Omg!! That would be exactly what I’m looking for! Except I just love red! But wow, that really has me thinking twice! Well I guess now I run into the issue of the

Here's a well equipped CPO 85D with a 4 year CPO warranty for $45K:

Model S 85D 5YJSA1H21FF094076 | Tesla

Oh wow! Much appreciation! This is exactly what I would be looking for! Except I do love red! But this blue and everything it has is really make me think about it!! ;-) I guess my new issue I run into with 2016’s is finding the one with the “facelift”! Oh vey!! Lol

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Oh wow! Much appreciation! This is exactly what I would be looking for! Except I do love red! But this blue and everything it has is really make me think about it!! ;-) I guess my new issue I run into with 2016’s is finding the one with the “facelift”! Oh vey!! Lol

There are about 6 months of 2016 AP1 facelift cars and 2-3 months of 2016 AP2 facelift cars. You asked earlier and I will agree that those with AP2 are unicorns. They were! Those cars from the end of 2016 and the first two weeks of 2017 were the last cars to offer free lifetime Supercharging that transferred to the new owner. I just sold mine last weekend and it was hard for buyers to find comparable cars because they weren't offered for long. When they were up for sale, they were often snatched up quickly by buyers who recognized their uniqueness.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Sorry to the OP RedLoubs&wine and everyone else for the digression -- but I'm bored and have to challenge Troy's continued propaganda postings here (and in other threads):

If you're going to be tunnel-visioned on the finances at least consider the entire story and not just the portions that justify your own purchase.

Yes, thanks... and to that point, let's review Troy's claims:

I don't think this is a good deal.

Yes, we know.

It has the plastic nosecone that was designed to replicate the grill section of gas cars. This adds a sense of fakeness because of the design and cheapness because of the plastic and immediately lets everybody know that you are driving an old Tesla that was discontinued in 2016.

"Sense of fakeness"? Seriously? This is a completely subjective aesthetic. Some people like it, some don't. And the "cheapness because of the plastic".. have you actually ever gotten that close to an older Model S to know that? It's not "cheap plastic." You realize you're crapping on a design by Franz von Holzhausen, who still does all of Tesla's designs? He designed the grill that way on purpose, to ease the public's transition to electric cars. It actually had a purpose -- he wanted the design, at first, to 'fit in' to more traditional car designs, and then slowly update it later, which he has done. But this is just your attempt to crap on anything that's not a Model 3. And why should any Tesla owner care what other people think of what kind of car they are driving, even if it is an older Model S? It's still a freaking TESLA. This reveals much more about your own insecurities and low self-esteem than it does anything about other people who choose to buy and PROUDLY drive a "nosecone grill" Model S. Some people already consider it "classic."

It still has less range than Model 3 Mid-Range. A new S85 has 218 mi range at 75 mph compared to 233 mi for Model 3 MR. See the table here.

A difference of SIX PERCENT. It's not even that much of a difference but you make it sound awful. And of course you cherry-pick your data to support your claims. You left out that that 233 miles for a M3 Mid Range is only when equipped with 18" Aero wheels. The same M3MR with 19" rims gets LESS range (211 miles) than the Model S85. And the same M3MR with 18" rims and non-Aero wheels gets almost the same range as the S85 (223 miles, a difference of just 4 miles). But how nice of you to leave all that out, which is even more interesting because all that data comes from your own website (which has its own flawed methodology, but I won't get into that now).

You get AP1.0 instead of AP2.5. You will be stuck with AP1.0 instead of having the option to upgrade to AP3.0 in a few months.

Stop making it sound like AP1 sucks. Up until recently, AP1 and AP2 were at parity. AP2 is only now offering some features not in AP1. There's absolutely nothing wrong with "being stuck with AP1". There are thousands of AP1 cars out there, and it works REALLY REALLY WELL. For someone just getting into their first used Tesla, AP1 is, and always will be very usable and stable.

And also nobody knows when the "upgrade to AP3.0" will happen. Retrofits are probably not happening "in a few months" and probably won't happen until the software for more advanced EAP and FSD is ready to take advantage of the new AP3 hardware. That could be years away. So people on AP2 or AP2.5 are also "stuck" (using your words) until that happens.

worse audio quality than Model 3,

Subjective. Also, not really that important.

slow touchscreen,

That's a strech. It's a relatively slower, but not "slow".

no roof rack option with the metal roof.

Did the OP say anything about needing a roof rack?

How about this? You still can't buy an Extended Service Agreement (extended warranty) from Tesla for a Model 3. Seems like you forgot to include that fact.

Charging the Model S 85 costs 41% more than Model 3 (38 kWh per 100 miles vs 27 kWh, data source)

Again, nice cherry-picking. Why didn't you say that Model 3 costs 28% less than Model S? I'll tell you.. because 41% sounds a lot worse than 28%. But both are saying exactly the same thing.

The main reason Model S costs more is that the production line is much less efficient than Model 3 production

No, that's not the reason. The reason the Model S and X cost more is because there is a market for these cars at the higher price points, and people would (gladly) pay those prices. Elon Musk has explained many many times the Tesla Super Secret Master Plan is:

• Build sports car (Roadster)
• Use that money to build an affordable car (MS+MX)
• Use that money to build an even more affordable car (M3)
• While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options

(Source: The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me))

I really don't know why you have to come up with these insane theories about the efficiency of the NUMMI plant before Tesla even owned it. That's just misleading and disingenuous hyperbole. Please Stop.

Tesla could have upgraded the Model S/X production line and made it as efficient as the Model 3. This would have lowered the priced of Model S but they chose not to do that because it's not the right time to spend money on that.

What you naively exclude in your "analysis" is that Tesla is a public company. If they upgraded the efficiency of the MS/MX line and lowered the costs, they would most likely still charge the SAME PRICE -- as long as there is demand -- and significantly increase the margins on the MS/MX line, which would drive up the stock price and company valuation. Elon Musk has a $2.6 billion compensation plan that only pays out if he gets Tesla to an market valuation of $650 billion in the next 10 years. He doesn't do that by lowering the price of the most expensive cars just because the manufacturing line becomes more efficient. Finance 101.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[hybridbear]

Did you purchase your used Tesla via the CPO program? Are used model S’s with AP2, like a unicorn?

Nope, I bought it from a thread posted on TMC. Like @MorrisonHiker said, 2016s with AP2 are rare, so they typically sell fast because of having the unicorn combination of AP2 and Lifetime Unlimited Supercharging. I had to snatch mine up quickly & so far I'm loving my first 4 days with it!

 

[Troy]

In a podcast released today here, Elon talks about improvements to Autopilot. This should give people an idea about what kind of improvements to expect and how AP1.0 might feel more outdated a year from now.

OP said she plans to keep the car for 3 or 4 years. Therefore it makes sense to consider what the differences might be between Autopilot versions in the future instead of just looking at the differences now.