Anybody still bother with Ecotricity chargers with the new 6GBP tariff?

[thegruf]

Better refer Starbucks too. What happens if you don't want Starbucks coffee at motorway services? And BP. What if you don't want to pay lots more for petrol?

SOL.

Starbucks were not subsidised by the government (although they are allowed to disgracefully abuse the tax system), plus there are generally alternatives.
BP were not subsidised to my knowledge.

There have been regular campaigns over the years to manage motorway services fuel costs, and anyway with a little forethought you can always go to the previous/next one which is mostly run by an alternate operator.

Ecotricity have taken advantage of public funds to roll out charging points at motorway service centres in a dominant/monopolistic manner and are now actively blocking competition.

That is why they should be referred to the Competition Commission.

I don't actually blame the company involved (in this case Ecotricity), they are just being commercially astute, spotting the opportunity and maximising the potential, though I do absolutely blame them for a indefensible charging scheme.

It is our(succession of) idiot government(s) that has permitted this situation to arise by releasing taxpayers money as grants without sufficiently considering the consequences of subsequent market abuse, and as ever it is the man on the street that suffers from such incomptence.

Whether you are a fan of Brexit or not, one thing this country does need is a better political class. The thought of certain of the current inhabitants of Westminster steering the country into a new chapter is unnerving to say the least.

 

[thegruf]

...use a high-availability £60,000 machine ...

factually innacurate, or prove it

 

[J1mbo]

Ecotricity have taken advantage of public funds...

A common misconception which I have yet to see factually proven.

 

[J1mbo]

factually innacurate, or prove it

See the latest Fully Charged episode on YouTube. Dale Vince states the installed cost is around 50k each.

 

[thegruf]

Dale says. Well I happen to know very accurately the cost of one of their competitor charging stations, and trust me it is not even within an order of magnitude of that cost. The install of the feed is of course expensive at perhaps £20K (highly variable for sure) but this is usually spread across several points on a site, so let's agree that Dale Vince would like us to think that the install cost is £50K per charger however this might be better thought of as more like the "sell" price, the "cost" price is a small fraction of that. The installation cost can be considered over say a 5 year life on top of which there are maintenance costs for sure.

(btw don't forget that it is reported that Nissan apparently donated for free 400 or so of the Chademo points)

Again though beyond the detail, it is worth repeating that I have no problem with Ecotricity charging, indeed it is entirely to be expected in order to be sustainable, I also applaud their initiative rolling out the "eco-highway", however I do expect a proportionate and plausible charging regime and competition to be encouraged not obstructed.

 

[J1mbo]

Dale says. Well I happen to know very accurately the cost of one of their competitor charging stations, and trust me it is not even within an order of magnitude of that cost. The install of the feed is of course expensive at perhaps £20K (highly variable for sure) but this is usually spread across several points on a site, so let's agree that Dale Vince would like us to think that the install cost is £50K per charger however this might be better thought of as more like the "sell" price, the "cost" price is a small fraction of that. The installation cost can be considered over say a 5 year life on top of which there are maintenance costs for sure.

(btw don't forget that it is reported that Nissan apparently donated for free 400 or so of the Chademo points)

Again though beyond the detail, it is worth repeating that I have no problem with Ecotricity charging, indeed it is entirely to be expected in order to be sustainable, I also applaud their initiative rolling out the "eco-highway", however I do expect a proportionate and plausible charging regime and competition to be encouraged not obstructed.

Manufacturer cost price doesn't have much to do with it ... Ecotricity don't make these points, they have to buy them.

It is well known that the installed cost is at least 3x the unit cost. For example, British Gas (who have installed most of the Superchargers in the UK) charge "from" £35,000 for a basic 50kw 2 head (CHAdeMO + AC) post with limited civils (5m & 20m cabling). Am guessing that the dual CCS/CHAdeMO rapids are more expensive.

On top of that you have to add comms functionality, metering, feed upgrade, maintenance, etc. I am sure you can get a cheaper installation, especially if you are putting in multiple units at the same location, but Ecotricity started doing this in 2011, so would have had to offset the advantages of donated hardware against the cost of being an early adopter.

It is true that Nissan announced 400 rapids across Europe. Nissan GB reportedly applied for 65 units. Many of these are installed at dealerships. EH only has 300 "pumps" - donated rapids have "Nissan" branding.

FWIW, I don't think that the market is big enough to offer a choice at this point, much as people would like one. Am happy to have a simple pricing model so that it costs the same at a busy MSA as it does at the most remote charging location.

I also believe that Ecotricity would be open to discussions should another vendor wish to install their own rapids at MSAs. Remember, Superchargers were being quietly installed at MSAs before that regretful email from Tesla that initited the court action.

 

[Brunel]

I have been a domestic Ecotricity customer for over a decade so I get my 52 charges foc. However, I am using the network more now than I have in the past year when it was free for everyone. I just could not trust there would not be a queue and every time I had been at one I waited for an Outlander or had one park up and stare me down wondering how long I will be!

I love that I can be driving along and see how many of the points in my vicinity are available. 5 years of free charging was nice whilst it lasted but the past year had got silly with congestion. I also feel that 5 years goes a long way to offset emotional arguments about govt grants (the Source West rapids are £4.50 and have pretty much always been even though Bristol got funding from central govt by way of donating the rapids).

There is also no evidence that anyone other than Tesla has tried to place rapids at Motorway services in the UK. I do not know Dale, but if he knew a company would help upgrade the electricity supply and put more rapids in he would be over the moon...as long as they did not try to show-horn Ecotricity out like Tesla allegedly tried & failed...a sub-lease or joint co-operation agreement makes sense, especially if these commercial companies are jumping on the bandwagon where they may make money from EV charging. Just do not expect them to be free or cheaper than Ecotricity - see the Dutch company and their rates.