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Anybody still bother with Ecotricity chargers with the new 6GBP tariff?

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by thegruf, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    ...except for ppl with overpriced Ecotricity domestic electricity.

    I know I haven't bothered since they started charging 6GBP a visit.
    So much so in fact I dont even know if the charge bays are now mostly empty.

    competition needed.
     
  2. EV Guy

    EV Guy Member

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    I pass LFE Services on the M1 twice a day and have never seen them so empty. I've only seen one Outlander charging since the change.

    I don't use them regularly so still have my 52 free charges as an Ecotricity customer.
     
  3. tonyj01

    tonyj01 Member

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    I think none of us can never say never.

    I was on a Friday afternoon journey north on M6 and had planned a stop at Keele. But the motorway was closed and diversion through Stoke. That's the sort of unexpected situation that might make you spend that £6.

    Interesting how a small charge makes a large difference to usage, but I think we have all seen people charging at Ecotricity bays when they are not in a long journey or charging up for the week!

    Tony.
     
  4. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    I got the card thingie, when the car arrived a few months ago, "just in case", Almost immediately afterwards I got the Email telling me about charging changes and the need to download APP and link to a card ... which I haven't got around to doing as yet ...

    ... I suppose I should ... one day I'll need it! The charge per-session rather than per-quantity-used seemed like a rip-off to me and put me off.

    I was bowled over picking up Daughter from Gatwick to find that I could download a POD APP, use the electric chargers in the multi-storey short term parking and be given FOUR HOURS FREE PARKING ... at a UK airport? Blimey! :p

    ... got there and either couldn't figure out how to hook up the cables I had with me, or was missing the essential adaptor, so got stung for the three-quid for a couple of minutes parking anyway ...

    Maybe my sums were off, but I didn't think it was a "small charge". Its more than my domestic rate, isn't it? am I unfair in assuming that my taxes paid for the infrastructure, rather than that needing to be recouped from the charge?

    Looking forward to being put straight :rolleyes:
     
  5. Aviator

    Aviator Member

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    I collect my P90D next week so am new to EV's. How much range would you get from 30 mins at an Ecotricity charger?
     
  6. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    You should get around 20kWh from the CHAdeMO connector.

    How many miles you get out of that will vary depending on:

    * Wet or dry road
    * Raining or clear
    * Outside temperature
    * Battery temperature
    * AC on or off
    * Windows open or shut
    * Uphill, downhill or flat road
    * Average Speed
    * Rate of accelleration
    * Tire pressure
    * Weight of luggage/passengers
    * Use of Max Power vs Range Mode

    Line all those things up correctly as the guys that set the Model S distance record did and you can expect to get about 120 miles out of it.

    Real world driving a P90D would be more like 50 miles :)
     
  7. tonyj01

    tonyj01 Member

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    Yes I think it's a small charge.

    I used to fill up with diesel at £100 a time. Sometimes that would be twice a week.

    How much do two coffees cost these days?

    I know we can buy a kilowatt of electricity at home for 4p (Sainsbury's Energy, NW England, Economy 7 tarrif) but we must accept commercial companies have a mark up when supplying retail.

    I have no connection at all with Ecotricity but I would rather pay a small fee of £6 and get home than run out of fuel and wait for the tow truck.

    That is if I couldn't get a supercharge at a Tesla site which may happen due to route, weather, traffic etc.

    Tony
     
    • Like x 1
  8. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    Would this be the right formula?

    24 kilowatts * 30 minutes / 350 watt hours per mile in miles =

    Mr Google says that that is 34 miles (and 300 Wh/Mile is 40 miles).

    Not sure if 24KW is the power that Ecotricity provide - couldn't find that info on their site amongst the justification for a timed, rather than KWh metered, charging system.

    If it is 40KW that would be 57 / 66 miles repsectively
     
  9. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    :)

    25,000 miles a year in a 30MPG-ish ICE vehicle was £4K p.a. .... now its £500 p.a. for off-peak electricity ... so that was my starting point for a comparison. Ecotricity price works out similar to Petrol / Diesel - seems to me that Ecotricity have a huge markup.

    For a splash-and-dash I agree, happy to pay, but I'd welcome some competition to get to a more realistic price.
     
  10. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Upgraded,

    Your math is correct.

    I hope Ecotricity provides 50 kW for that £6 fee.

    GSP
     
    • Like x 1
  11. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    in my (limited) experience they dont, and I only ever used them as a "splash and dash" so the battery was always low on charge ie no tapering involved. Whether this is because power is shared with other bays I cannot say.

    For sure, you can consider you are not guaranteed a fixed max amount of power delivered to the car.
     
  12. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    I admit I have stopped using the ecotricity chargers on my outlander as I get 19 miles for 30 min just not worth it. However as another user suggested I will buy the chademo connector when I get my model X so I have the option if I can't get yo the super charger if basically circumstances mean I have too. I think they have set the fee far too high. It should have been a max of £3 a charge. I suspect they will reduce the cost eventually and I agree this unacceptable monopoly they have needs to be broken. The moment they started charging changed in my opinion their right to exclusivity. It not right that on the motorway network that tax payers pay for we should be prevented from charging by a company that is effectively blocking progress and deliberately blocks competition.
     
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  13. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    Polar Instant also charge £6 for 30 mins on a Rapid.

    Plus a £1.20 connection fee. (Polar also charge this fee for you to use someone else's free-to-use charging point that is on their network).

    This makes them more expensive than the "monopolistic" premium sites occupied by Ecotricity.

    Polar are part of Chargemaster, who have benefitted from the vast majority of public EV infrastructure funding, either directly through OLEV, or indirectly by installing and running regional networks (Milton Keynes, Source London pre-BluePoint, etc.)

    Something worth thinking about next time you save yourself £1.20 (per connection) by using a (mostly) privately funded Ecotricity rapid located in a more convenient spot, where everything else is significantly more expensive than it would be in a normal retail location.
     
  14. thegruf

    thegruf Member

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    The Competition Commission should investigate this.

    There should be regulation of charges levied by private companies that have benefitted massively from government grants/investment to prevent market abuse which ultimately self-defeats the purpose of the grants in the firt place.
     
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  15. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    I really have to agree with this. Whilst ecotricity didn't charge the lack of competition didn't effect anyone but as soon as they chose to charge what I feel is an unreasonable charge and let's not forget they prevent any other companies including tesla adding chargers at motorway services, this needs to be referred to the monopolies commission
     
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  16. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    Better refer Starbucks too. What happens if you don't want Starbucks coffee at motorway services? And BP. What if you don't want to pay lots more for petrol?

    SOL.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. cookielovers

    cookielovers Member

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    J1mbo are you serious!!!! That is not a reasonable comparison at all you can allways buy coffee from ususally at least 3 companies at each major services. If your at all interested in tesla you will be aware that ecotricity blocked tesla from installing charging points at any services they have installed equipment even though it would have no effect on them other than tesla owners would not have to use these chargers leaving them free to all other electric car companies cars. I believe ecotricity had plenty of financial help installing these from vehicle manufacturers and gov grants. Irrespective of this at most services I have noticed this usually if they have for example McDonalds on one side there is usually someone else on the other like Burger King. As a consumer I want choice, why should tesla not be able to take a few spaces out of the way at any services to install supercharger if they are willing to pay for it. Any blocking of this in my view is anti competitive and should be reviewed. As a tax payer we pay for the uk roads and we need to encourage a fossil free future. I am totally against any action which potentially delays the mass roll out of electric vehicles. Our countries main arteries are the motorways they should never be allowed to be controlled by one party even the petrol is sold by different companies
     
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  18. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Member

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    Personally I think Tesla will be better putting chargers just-off the motorway - e.g. adjacent to a junction, particularly where there are other services at that junction.

    That's what competition is. If there are no alternative electric chargers in a reachable distance that's a monopoly. For Coffee & Fuel in an ICE I can easily go another few miles to a different vendor - there are loads to choose from, but not so with Electric charging.
     
  19. nexsuperne101

    nexsuperne101 Member

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    Charging a 24KWH Nissan Leaf from 5% up to 83% (the best I managed in the middle of summer after 30 minutes), works out at the petrol equivalent (£5 per UK Gallon - 4.54 litres) at 60MPG. This is about 6 times the cost of charging at home on cheap rate electric, but means that we no longer see PHEV outlanders with the pathetic 20 mile EV range blocking the chargers for hours on end. For them, it is actually cheaper to use petrol at 22MPG, than electric, which works out at 20MPG. So much for the 148MPG that was advertised when they did the sales campaign!
     
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  20. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    Yes, I am serious. I use motorway services several times a week. You clearly do not. You can buy Starbucks at 3 cafes on one site, but you cannot choose between Starbucks, Costa and Nero on one site. You cannot choose between McDonalds and Burger King on one site.

    There are two places on the whole network where Burger King are on one side of the road and McDonalds is on the other side. Two. Usually you have no choice except to drive off the motorway into the nearest town, or continue on and hope that the next MSA is run by a different company who have a different single vendor agreement.

    Being a UK tax payer means nothing when it comes to private businesses operating at Motorway Services.

    The fact that Tesla have installed chargers at Motorway Services kills your arguement of anti-competitiveness. As a Tesla owner, you get to choose whether to use a Supercharger OR an Ecotricity charger. This helps boths sides, as some may consider Superchargers as a monopoly with a one-off £60,000+ access fee.

    Tesla did this before their agreement with Ecotricity. That is why some Superchargers are installed in Farm Shops and Sainsburys and Hotel car parks. They are less convenient, especially if you arrive when the shops are shut. But they provide an alternative to motorway services. Just like the regional monopolies do, such as those operated by Chargemaster, CYC, Source London, PodPoint, etc.

    Not true. There are alternatives for electric fuel, and with a little planning there is no reason why you shouldn't use them instead of an MSA. Plugshare can help you out with that.

    What happens if you arrive at Motorway services with no petrol left in the tank? You pay BP £1.30 per litre, even though you could get £1.10 / litre from Esso in the local town. Is it anti-competitive because you failed to plan your trip and arrived with no fuel?

    In some ways, I wish Ecotricity had charged from day one. It would have prevented this sense of entitlement from those people who seem to think they can rock up and use a high-availability £60,000 machine in a premium location for less than the cost of a medium latte.
     

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