Anyone have luck with a really old breaker box?

[addison1203]

We are in the process of moving with our Tesla into a new house that was (according to Zillow) built in the early 60s and apparently hasn't had much electric updates since. The breaker box in the garage looks old as hell and I'm wondering if anyone else has dealt with adding a circuit to something like this.

Sorry for the poor quality, we live 1500 miles away and this still frame is from the video of the walkthrough of the house.

Did some research and it looks like it's a Trumbull panel from the 40s or 50s.
I didn't see any other panels when I searched the house and the only thing next to the meter are two disconnect switches.

Anyone else run into anything like this when installing a new plug for your vehicle?

 

[eprosenx]

We are in the process of moving with our Tesla into a new house that was (according to Zillow) built in the early 60s and apparently hasn't had much electric updates since. The breaker box in the garage looks old as hell and I'm wondering if anyone else has dealt with adding a circuit to something like this.

Sorry for the poor quality, we live 1500 miles away and this still frame is from the video of the walkthrough of the house.

Did some research and it looks like it's a Trumbull panel from the 40s or 50s.
I didn't see any other panels when I searched the house and the only thing next to the meter are two disconnect switches.

Anyone else run into anything like this when installing a new plug for your vehicle?

Wow! I have never seen a panel like that before. Some brief Internet searching indicates it might have been the origins of what became GE's lines of breaker panels.

Honestly though, something that old is just beyond its useful service life. Even if it is in good shape, I would have pretty significant concerns attempting to add EV charging to it.

I would also be wanting to make sure the house does not have aluminum wire for regular 15 and 20a circuits. That has its own risks unrelated to EV charging.

If you can get more pictures of better quality (that show the amperage of each circuit and any other specs on the panel) we might be able to give you more info. Pictures with the panel cover off would be helpful if they can safely be obtained. Knowing what the meter base outside looks like and the wire coming out of it might give us an idea what amperage the main service is.

My guess is that you are in for a main service panel replacement and likely an upsizing at the same time of the electrical service.

 

[compu85]

We have an early 70s 200A Wadsworth panel, and were able to add a 60A breaker for the wall connector. Looks like your panel doesn't have space for extra breakers, though. So, unless you can uhook something like an electric range, you'll need a new panel.

As eprosenx noted, this is a good idea on its own... let alone trying to hook an EVSE up to it. How many amps of service does your place have?

-J

 

[juliusa]

I suggest:
1. Upgrade your service to 200amp
2. Put in a new 200amp main panel
3. Feed the old panel as a subpanel off the new panel
4. Put breaker for the EVSE in the new panel

You might also consider:
1. Upgrade your service to 200amp
2. Replace existing panel with new 200amp panel
3. Add EVSE to new panel

Definitely talk to a couple of electricians and get their suggestions / estimates.

 

[timk225]

I've never seen or even heard of a horizontal Trumbull panel like that before. Anything that old, it is definitely time to upgrade! Do it once, do it right! And hope you don't have knob & tube all in your house, or much aluminum wire.

 

[addison1203]

It's a rental house and the owner told me that he's fine with me installing a EV plug as long as a I pay for it. Was thinking it would be no big expense since I paid ~$300 in the same area a few years ago at my last house. Maybe I can get him to cover a panel upgrade.

 

[juliusa]

It's a rental house and the owner told me that he's fine with me installing a EV plug as long as a I pay for it.

How long do you plan on being there? How much is the monthly rent? Is there a 240v appliance outlet somewhere in the house?

Unless you plan on being there for years and willing to pay a few grand more on the rental, I see a lot of non-home charging in your future.

 

[addison1203]

How long do you plan on being there? How much is the monthly rent? Is there a 240v appliance outlet somewhere in the house?

Unless you plan on being there for years and willing to pay a few grand more on the rental, I see a lot of non-home charging in your future.

We'll be there at least a year but my commute is 40 miles each way so I was hoping to have more than a trickle charge. Unfortunately the home has no 240v hookups that I can find (everything runs on gas).

I think at this point I'll have an electrician come out to give me a quote and, if they think it's dangerous, they can tell the home owner and maybe they'll go ahead and spring for the new panel. If not, I'll be supercharging every week.

 

[brucet999]

Looks like your panel doesn't have space for extra breakers, though. So, unless you can uhook something like an electric range, you'll need a new panel.

-J

There are apparently two breaker slots open. OP can probably relocate one of those breakers that is not paired, thus freeing up a pair of adjacent slots for a 240V breaker - if any can be found to fit such an old and obsolete panel. That said, such a small panel (only 16 slots) might be only 60A rated, and so would need to be replaced with a 100A or larger panel. Around here, that would cost about $3000.

 

[juliusa]

There are apparently two breaker slots open. OP can probably relocate one of those breakers that is not paired

I doubt a landlord would let a tenant do that, and I don't think you would find a licensed electrician that would do it either. If you did find one, I'd look for a new electrician.

Edit: before you move in, make sure there are good working smoke detectors in every bedroom, and that there are two means of egress....

 

[mswlogo]

There are apparently two breaker slots open. OP can probably relocate one of those breakers that is not paired, thus freeing up a pair of adjacent slots for a 240V breaker - if any can be found to fit such an old and obsolete panel. That said, such a small panel (only 16 slots) might be only 60A rated, and so would need to be replaced with a 100A or larger panel. Around here, that would cost about $3000.

I doubt any electrician would be willing to add a circuit to that thing. Where would they buy a breaker for it?

I wonder if that panel even has 240V?

If by chance it's a straight 60A 240V service a straight panel swap might not be to expensive and you might squeak out a 20A 240V which will probably be fine. Since it is a rental you don't want to spend to much. Maybe split the cost with owner.

There is a huge jump from 15A 120V to 20A 240V usability for an 80 mile commute.

You don't need 200A to allow reasonable charging if the house is already getting by on that.

 

[brucet999]

I've never seen or even heard of a horizontal Trumbull panel like that before. Anything that old, it is definitely time to upgrade! Do it once, do it right! And hope you don't have knob & tube all in your house, or much aluminum wire.

What? K&T in a 1960s house? Not a chance. Maybe in 1940, but the extra labor costs of K&T made the switch to Romex happen very fast after the war.

 

[juliusa]

Here is another option. If there are two 120v 15a (or better 20a) outlets that are on different phases located near where the car is parked, a device like this can be used to safely combine the phases to get 240v. 220 and 240 Voltage Converters for Everyday Use
There are also similar adapter that are less expensive - as long as they "drop" the neutral (just take the "hot" from each outlet and "ground" from one) they are safe. Simply won't work if the outlet is wired wrong or they are on the same phase.

Honestly, I'd be wary of using something like that due to the age and unknown condition of the wiring in the house - but it is no different than using an outlet to charge on 120v.

 

[MN-MS100D]

The OP stated that there are 2 disconnects near the service entrance, so Im guessing that the Trumbull panel issues are moot, and that a qualified electrician will tap one of the disconnects to provide a 30 amp EVSE circuit.

 

[addison1203]

The OP stated that there are 2 disconnects near the service entrance, so Im guessing that the Trumbull panel issues are moot, and that a qualified electrician will tap one of the disconnects to provide a 30 amp EVSE circuit.

Oh, ok. I didn't know that was a possibility. Giving me a glimmer of hope.

 

[eprosenx]

The OP stated that there are 2 disconnects near the service entrance, so Im guessing that the Trumbull panel issues are moot, and that a qualified electrician will tap one of the disconnects to provide a 30 amp EVSE circuit.

I totally missed that! Thanks for catching that!

It may be a really good sign in that there may be a second panel of some kind that could be expanded for vehicle charging. Maybe it was added for AC or something?

If pictures can be posted we may be able to comment on it!

 

[addison1203]

I totally missed that! Thanks for catching that!

It may be a really good sign in that there may be a second panel of some kind that could be expanded for vehicle charging. Maybe it was added for AC or something?

If pictures can be posted we may be able to comment on it!

We aren't moving in for two weeks and I'm still on the other side of the country so I can't get any better pictures but the two disconnects definitely looked to be very old. Reminded me of something from the old Frankenstein movie. I included a picture that I think is fairly close to how they looked.



There was a new A/C added in 2010 (actually a replacement). I'm not sure if it's directly connected to one of the old disconnects or if there was a breaker panel somewhere that eluded me.

The lack of available data does make it harder to solve the question.