Arguments about binning, hub sizes, and other speculation

[StealthP3D]

Ok you two, take 24 hours off!

Ya think, LOL! I'm about done with this nonsense.

 

[daniloreyes]

 

[daniloreyes]

Yes, as I've explained, that's because the Performance model comes with front discs that have a thinner hub that allows the wheel hub to protrude a few mm's. The thinner is the hub on the brake discs, not the wheel hub (which is the same part regardless of which AWD model you are considering). I hope this helps you understand.

Ok, that sounds reasonable.

 

[Perry]

Yes, as I've explained, that's because the Performance model comes with front discs that have a thinner hub that allows the wheel hub to protrude a few mm's. The thinner is the hub on the brake discs, not the wheel hub (which is the same part regardless of which AWD model you are considering). I hope this helps you understand.

I think you mean "front disks that have a thinner brake rotor that allows the wheel hub to protrude 3 more millimiters". The hub is the same.

 

[sperkin]

It has been proven that AWD is the same as P expect for Software. People have posted at pickup they received a nonP but service unlocked it for them. My coworker ordered P but also received a nonP. Service unlocked it for him and has the red underline now.

 

[StealthP3D]

It has been proven that AWD is the same as P expect for Software. People have posted at pickup they received a nonP but service unlocked it for them. My coworker ordered P but also received a nonP. Service unlocked it for him and has the red underline now.

All that proves is that some AWD meet the spec for Performance. It could be that all AWD meet the spec for Performance but that has not been proven. It's an important distinction to make before making absolute statements.

 

[StealthP3D]

I think you mean "front disks that have a thinner brake rotor that allows the wheel hub to protrude 3 more millimiters". The hub is the same.

I meant what I said. All brake discs have a braking surface and a hub. While I don't know how the thickness of the braking portion or the discs compares between the Performance discs and the standard discs, that is not relevant to this discussion. It's the thickness of the non-braking portion of the discs (the hub) that is of interest here. The standard discs have a thicker hub than the Performance discs.

@daniloreyes finally became reasonable and now you jeopardize it by making confusing statements! Please be careful

 

[MXWing]

Occam’s razor would say all motors all AWD and P motor are engineered to be identical.

Not sure why the investment needed here to prove what is a very probably case.

If it performs as advertised and is warrantied as advertised - what is the issue?

 

[Perry]

I meant what I said. All brake discs have a braking surface and a hub. While I don't know how the thickness of the braking portion or the discs compares between the Performance discs and the standard discs, that is not relevant to this discussion. It's the thickness of the non-braking portion of the discs (the hub) that is of interest here. The standard discs have a thicker hub than the Performance discs.

@daniloreyes finally became reasonable and now you jeopardize it by making confusing statements! Please be careful

I see what's going on. We've created your own definition of what a hub is, thus the confusion.

This is what people who are into cars refer to as the hub:
https://www.carid.com/images/pronto/hubs/295-13104.jpg

And here is a brake rotor:
https://www.carid.com/images/wp/brembo/w01331607502brc.jpg

Brake rotor goes on the hub yet you are calling the non-braking portion of the brake rotor, the hub. It is not. Now with the proper definition of the hub in mind you can see how the hub is the same on all AWD model 3s in the front and the same as all model 3s in the back. The brake rotor is indeed different between P+ and P- (what you incorrectly call the hub).

 

[StealthP3D]

I see what's going on. We've created your own definition of what a hub is, thus the confusion.

This is what people who are into cars refer to as the hub:
https://www.carid.com/images/pronto/hubs/295-13104.jpg

And here is a brake rotor:
https://www.carid.com/images/wp/brembo/w01331607502brc.jpg

Brake rotor goes on the hub yet you are calling the non-braking portion of the brake rotor, the hub. It is not. Now with the proper definition of the hub in mind you can see how the hub is the same on all AWD model 3s in the front and the same as all model 3s in the back. The brake rotor is indeed different between P+ and P- (what you incorrectly call the hub).

There is the wheel hub. And then there is the hub portion of the brake disc.

I'm not making up any new definitions of the word "hub
hub
noun
\ ˈhəb \
Definition of hub


1 : the central part of a circular object (such as a wheel or propeller) spokes attached to the hub of the wheel
2a : a center of activity : focal point The island is a major tourist hub.
b : an airport or city through which an airline routes most of its traffic
c : a central device that connects multiple computers on a single network (see network entry 1 sense 3b)
3 : a steel punch from which a working die (see die entry 2 sense 3a) for a coin or medal is made


The central portion of a brake disc is the "hub". This shouldn't be that difficult to understand unless you just want to be argumentative. Even the steering wheel has a hub.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I meant what I said. All brake discs have a braking surface and a hub. While I don't know how the thickness of the braking portion or the discs compares between the Performance discs and the standard discs, that is not relevant to this discussion. It's the thickness of the non-braking portion of the discs (the hub) that is of interest here. The standard discs have a thicker hub than the Performance discs.

@daniloreyes finally became reasonable and now you jeopardize it by making confusing statements! Please be careful

It's called a rotor hat (probably so you don't confuse it with the hub).

 

[StealthP3D]

It's called a rotor hat (probably so you don't confuse it with the hub).

Yeah, I've heard it called that as well. That's a more specific term, "hub" is a more general term in the same way that "rim" is a general term used to denote the outer edge of a circular object, ie. the "rim" of a steering wheel or it can also be used to refer to an entire wheel.

But I don't know why anyone is confused given the clear context surrounding the various terms. Context is everything. And the term "wheel hub" refers to a very specific car part and the "hub of a brake disc" refers to a specific portion of the disc. A wheel hub is never called the "hub portion of a brake disc".

 

[Jtt777]

Omg we are really deep in the weeds.....

 

[aspera]

Omg we are really deep in the weeds.....

——————————————

Everyone continuing to argue past this line must watch the video.

 

[StealthP3D]

——————————————

Everyone continuing to argue past this line must watch the video.

I'm not sure what that brings to the table. It's clear that the reason for the different wheel fitment between the P3D with the Performance Upgrade Package and the (now discontinued) Stealth P3D is entirely due to the thinner rotor of the Performance Upgrade brake disc and that the wheel hubs are identical. I thought I had already established that beyond any doubt.

But you have a point there, it does seem that some people just want to keep arguing (even if it's just to argue semantics).

 

[Perry]

Yeah, I've heard it called that as well. That's a more specific term, "hub" is a more general term in the same way that "rim" is a general term used to denote the outer edge of a circular object, ie. the "rim" of a steering wheel or it can also be used to refer to an entire wheel.

But I don't know why anyone is confused given the clear context surrounding the various terms. Context is everything. And the term "wheel hub" refers to a very specific car part and the "hub of a brake disc" refers to a specific portion of the disc. A wheel hub is never called the "hub portion of a brake disc".

Yes but originally you did not say the "hub portion of a brake disc", you just said hub. After we where confused and misunderstood what you where saying then you explained it that way and it became more clear.

In any case, that's not what the normal lingo is. Use the term "rotor hat" and it will be very clear to all.

 

[Perry]

I'm not sure what that brings to the table. It's clear that the reason for the different wheel fitment between the P3D with the Performance Upgrade Package and the (now discontinued) Stealth P3D is entirely due to the thinner rotor of the Performance Upgrade brake disc and that the wheel hubs are identical. I thought I had already established that beyond any doubt.

But you have a point there, it does seem that some people just want to keep arguing (even if it's just to argue semantics).

Definition semantics in this case made all the difference though. If you are going to call the "rotor hat" a "hub" and with that definition claim the hub is different between car variants, then you will sound wrong when in reality you where correct but referring to a totally different part than everyone else understood. No one was wrong, just people where thinking of different parts.

 

[EVDRVN]

All AWD car motors do not meet the P spec but the number is greater than 90%. The catalog part numbers have nothing to do with defining this validity just like the VIN number discrepancies on some cars equipment. Comparing part numbers makes the false assumption that replacement parts are not all 100% compliant for EACH model. The margin of unmodified production cars that do not qualify are pretty narrow and let's say the parts balancing was more likely to occur than not organically. Anyone with access to the cars system also knows how Tesla tracks identifiers on parts electronically and each part on the car is uniquely identified via the cars system and the Tesla DB daily. This comparative method is also how feature sets are checked and verified and over ridden by the profile on the Tesla servers. Of course this is moot for those without the ability to utilize any such hardware and lack of existence of any official upgrade program.

 

[Daniel in SD]

All AWD car motors do not meet the P spec but the number is greater than 90%. The catalog part numbers have nothing to do with defining this validity just like the VIN number discrepancies on some cars equipment. Comparing part numbers makes the false assumption that replacement parts are not all 100% compliant for EACH model. The margin of unmodified production cars that do not qualify are pretty narrow and let's say the parts balancing was more likely to occur than not organically. Anyone with access to the cars system also knows how Tesla tracks identifiers on parts electronically and each part on the car is uniquely identified via the cars system and the Tesla DB daily. This comparative method is also how feature sets are checked and verified and over ridden by the profile on the Tesla servers. Of course this is moot for those without the ability to utilize any such hardware and lack of existence of any official upgrade program.

Why not just use a different part number? It seems like this system would make it a pain to order a new motor for a P3D and could easily lead to ordering the wrong part.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

All AWD car motors do not meet the P spec but the number is greater than 90%. The catalog part numbers have nothing to do with defining this validity just like the VIN number discrepancies on some cars equipment. Comparing part numbers makes the false assumption that replacement parts are not all 100% compliant for EACH model. The margin of unmodified production cars that do not qualify are pretty narrow and let's say the parts balancing was more likely to occur than not organically. Anyone with access to the cars system also knows how Tesla tracks identifiers on parts electronically and each part on the car is uniquely identified via the cars system and the Tesla DB daily. This comparative method is also how feature sets are checked and verified and over ridden by the profile on the Tesla servers. Of course this is moot for those without the ability to utilize any such hardware and lack of existence of any official upgrade program.

You keep saying this, and you may well have insider knowledge as you claim. Though you were wrong about your claim of a 500A rear inverter as far as I can tell.

However, your reluctance to answer definitively the answers to the questions we all want to know is frustrating.

If Tesla Needs a little cash, add Ludicrous mode to existing Model 3 Performance

Those were my questions. Note that the 990 MOSFET-LC question has been changed recently - there actually WAS one of these motors reported from Europe, see the thread on Motors in the Parts Catalog.

Model 3 Motors on the Tesla Parts Catalog