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The Octopus Go Tariff is 5p per kWh off peak, I use this time to charge my Powerwall in the winter months.
The peak rate is 13.72p kWh which is also pretty decent.

That is a great tariff, even with the restricted 4 hour night rate. The day rate is only a fraction over my current single rate tariff and 4 hours off peak is enough for my daily EV charging routine and any extra required would be more or less the same price as I pay now anyway.
 
Please let us know how you get on with that. I don't want to switch to then find that the Go Tariff is no longer available.

My sentiments exactly. I've just emailed Octopus asking for clear details of the price and contract for the Go tariff. The Octopus website is not very transparent about the Go tariff. I tried to get an online quote and it returned estimated annual costs only (no rates per kWh) for every tariff EXCEPT Go. I think there may delimited availability of the Go Tariff - why, one askes. My worry is that once the dust settles they'll up the night rate. Is it a fixed term tariff? probably not. Maybe Dale can tell us more.

Other than that I'm quite impressed with the transparency go the Go site. The blog explains how they can claim to supply 100% renewable energy, and says there's a delay in obtaining the SMET S2 smart meter, which is universal, allowing seemless changes of energy company. The S1 smart meters can only communicate with the electricity supplier who installed it apparently. Presumably there are other advantages to theS2 meter as well. The blog also explains how they fix their prices - with formula!!

I did find a post on another site by a guy with a smart meter who said that once when the renewable energy supply exceeded grid capacity and the price went negative he actually got a payback on his meter! I(with photo). I like that idea! - but if prices are going to continuously fluctuate it makes it rather difficult to plan when to charge or use electricity, unless you've got smart connected appliances. I don't think the Tesla can do that yet, although it may just be a software update.

I'll report back when I have more info.
 
the average household doesn't run an 8kW charger all night!

FWIW I have my scheduler set up to stop charging at the end of E7 period (and a diary reminder to change it Summer / Winter <sigh>)

On the very rare occasions when I need more than 7 hours charging to replenish it is even rarer that I need max range the next day, and if I do I'll probably need 100% and I'm going to be charging at Peak, so doesn't matter when I do it - subject to leaving time. Generally I'd start the charge before E7 in that situation, particularly if I return home with battery below 20% so it doesn't sit at low SOC until E7 starts.
 
FWIW I have my scheduler set up to stop charging at the end of E7 period (and a diary reminder to change it Summer / Winter <sigh>)

On the very rare occasions when I need more than 7 hours charging to replenish it is even rarer that I need max range the next day, and if I do I'll probably need 100% and I'm going to be charging at Peak, so doesn't matter when I do it - subject to leaving time. Generally I'd start the charge before E7 in that situation, particularly if I return home with battery below 20% so it doesn't sit at low SOC until E7 starts.

If I do get a tariff like the Go tariff mentioned above (4 hours off peak at a very low rate) then I will change my charging habits. At the moment with a single rate tariff I generally aim to finish charging just before I leave the house and often top up during the day if I'm home.

With a 4 hour off-peak window I would tend to charge over the entire 4 hour period every day and only charge at other times out of necessity. It would basically mean a less efficient and flexible charging routine, but it would be an awful lot cheaper!
 
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Only had my Tesla a few days, but I do find it odd that you can schedule charging start, but not schedule charging stop within the car. I know you can do this artificially but altering the charge percentage, but would nice to say charge from time A to time B.

Yeah, it does seem a bit basic, but for the most part it's not really an issue and easy to overthink it. With some other EVs you can't even set a target charge percentage.

Once you get used to the time it takes to charge (for me it's almost exactly 1 hour per 10% charge) then it's easy enough to work out when to start the charge during the night to have it finish just before you leave in the morning.
 
but not schedule charging stop within the car

If you schedule to start charging at, say, midnight ... but you don't come home until, say, 2 AM what then? Currently the car will charge (can't remember what the slack period is, but its "generous"). If you have more sophisticated scheduling then its going to catch some people out ... there's also the whole "Charge to finish at 6AM" and then you get a power cut at 4AM .... what it really needs is "do most of the charging as soon as Off Peak starts, and the last bit just before departure IF the battery would be cold by then" which is all getting a bit complicated for Mr and Mrs Average Joe I reckon.

V9 took away the "Override schedule (i.e. at THIS location) and charge NOW, just the once" My take is this is typical Tesla's lousy regression testing of their software for introducing this bug. So you have to disable Schedule in order to "charge now" ... and then, of course, you have to remember to re-engage scheduled charging next time, otherwise you pay peak Rate for charging until you do remember ... or get a whopping bill at the end of the Quarter.

That said, they could have something on the APP that allows all sort of "just this once" type charging scenarios. Personally I use TeslaFi's scheduler for that kind of stuff, but the one thing I would like, "Charge last 10% an hour before THIS departure time" TeslaFi doesn't have (but TeslaFi does have the ability to Honk the Horn at a particular time .... Hmmm ...)

Pity the iPace users (unless its been fixed?) they have scheduled charging, but its not tied to a GPS location, so its "scheduled charging, or not". Yeah, and as @Peteski said, you can only charge those to 100%, so no regen in the morning, in particularly annoying if you live at the top of a mountain.

My TeslaFi scheduler includes:

TRIP: 1.h30m before departure change charge limit to 100%, wait 5 minutes, start charging. 15 minutes before departure turn on Climate, and turn it off 5 minutes after departure (does nothing if driving, so only if "didn't actually leave :) ). I have to ENABLE those tasks, and manually change the time (of each sub-task), every time I do this AND remember to disable them all afterwards, otherwise I get a charge-to-100% the following day too ... not exactly ideal, but its better than me remembering to do it on the actual day at the exact time ...

DAILY AM : Turn on Climate 15 minutes before normal departure. Turn off again (if I don't leave, as above). Only if parked at HOME.
PM: Same thing before leaving WORK, but set the temperature to 22C as well but only if plugged in.

Plug in reminder: if below 70% and parked at home (and not plugged in :) )

Charge Limit Reminder: if set above 90% remind me at 6PM (any location)

I charge at work and sometimes the wall connector trips ... so based on how fast it normally charges during the day I have set up "Plug in reminder" if less than 40% at 12 noon, below 50% at 1PM and so on ... to make sure I don't get tot he car at 6PM to find "nothing happened all day". Of course if I am out in the morning and rock up at 11:59 at 39% I get that warning, although the car would still be charged in time.

I don't use TeslaLog any more, it hasn't had any love lately, but that had a feature to geo-fence somewhere, I geo-fenced the the local Supermarket car park, and set "keep the AirCon on". I used to brag about that to my Range Rover driving mates "Does your car stay cool when you park at Waitrose?".. but Tesla have added that "keep Climate on whilst parked" feature, although I have to remember to turn it on when I'm at Waitrose. The stress of these 1st World Problems, Eh? :D

if you want to try TeslaFi you can extended your free trial from 2 weeks to a month using a referral code and Referrer gets $10 off renewal if you subsequently subscribe,. If you want to use mine it is WannabeOwner
 
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Well the latest news from Octopus is.... No news!

I emailed them yesterday lunchtime - no rely yet. That's very disappointing. I thought they had a good customer liaison rating. Maybe the Go tariff has reached it's 1000 applicant limit. In the mean time I've done some more research and decided that I don't want to take up the Go tariff anyway. The main reason is the requirement to have a smart meter. That MIGHT be a very good thing to have. It also could be very bad, depending on what happens to energy pricing in the future. I want to see more about how variable smart meter price tariffs pan out before I give up my E7 meter for good. My knowledgeable retired nuclear physicist and Model S owner for 6 years spy tells me that electricity prices are set to go through the roof - case in point:

"....power is currently about £45 per MWh and Hinkley Point (for example) has been promised £92.50 indexed by RPI from 2012."

I'll report elsewhere about my discussion with him and look at his 4x Powerwall 2 system today, either on this thread or on my Powerwall 2 current thread.

According to the Octopus website, power prices account for 50% of electricity prices - transmission, plant, admin costs and profit account for the rest. That could still mean a 25% hike soon - OK, nuclear power is only 20% of demand and will drop when existing power stations reach the end of their life. We're hardly building any replacements, the Hinkley Point replacement construction project is mired in controversy - combined cycle gas stations supply the bulk of the load with most gas coming from Russia (draw your own conclusions) and USA (Trump tariffs) Variable wind/solar supplies up to 30% at present - hopefully to increase but it won't result in a reduction in price.

Today I've just signed up for the EDF Blue+Price Freeze Feb 21 deal - night rate 5.7p/kWh, Peak rate 23.75p/kWh. You have to be a big night rate and fairly low peak rate user for this to work, but it's the best deal for me with a 9000/3000 night/day split = even better if I get a Powerwall 2 (next decision before the £ plummets on hard brexit!). The Blue+ plan has no exit charge, no smart meter requirement (I've asked them directly on that) and is locked in for 2 years so it's totally flexible. Their Easy Online Mar20 deal has even better rates but you agree to have a smart meter. I can change to Octopus or any other better deal if it becomes available. Gives plenty of time to make a decision on smart meters.

If I eventually hear from Octopus I'll report.
 
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I moved over to Octopus at the end of the year and get my Smart Meter next week.

I asked their support about moving over and was told I can move to Go or Agile tariffs when I have the Smart Meter.

Go seems the easiest but Agile is more like standard Economy7 but more fluctuation. There’s an API for Agile that the Zappi chargers can use (I think) so you can ask it to only charge at low rates etc. Intending to be on Go initially and maybe move to Agile when we have a Powerwall to avoid peak usage.
 
Well the latest news from Octopus is.... No news!

I emailed them yesterday lunchtime - no rely yet. That's very disappointing. I thought they had a good customer liaison rating. Maybe the Go tariff has reached it's 1000 applicant limit. In the mean time I've done some more research and decided that I don't want to take up the Go tariff anyway. The main reason is the requirement to have a smart meter. That MIGHT be a very good thing to have. It also could be very bad, depending on what happens to energy pricing in the future. I want to see more about how variable smart meter price tariffs pan out before I give up my E7 meter for good. My knowledgeable retired nuclear physicist and Model S owner for 6 years spy tells me that electricity prices are set to go through the roof - case in point:

"....power is currently about £45 per MWh and Hinkley Point (for example) has been promised £92.50 indexed by RPI from 2012."

I'll report elsewhere about my discussion with him and look at his 4x Powerwall 2 system today, either on this thread or on my Powerwall 2 current thread.

According to the Octopus website, power prices account for 50% of electricity prices - transmission, plant, admin costs and profit account for the rest. That could still mean a 25% hike soon - OK, nuclear power is only 20% of demand and will drop when existing power stations reach the end of their life. We're hardly building any replacements, the Hinkley Point replacement construction project is mired in controversy - combined cycle gas stations supply the bulk of the load with most gas coming from Russia (draw your own conclusions) and USA (Trump tariffs) Variable wind/solar supplies up to 30% at present - hopefully to increase but it won't result in a reduction in price.

Today I've just signed up for the EDF Blue+Price Freeze Feb 21 deal - night rate 5.7p/kWh, Peak rate 23.75p/kWh. You have to be a big night rate and fairly low peak rate user for this to work, but it's the best deal for me with a 9000/3000 night/day split = even better if I get a Powerwall 2 (next decision before the £ plummets on hard brexit!). The Blue+ plan has no exit charge, no smart meter requirement (I've asked them directly on that) and is locked in for 2 years so it's totally flexible. Their Easy Online Mar20 deal has even better rates but you agree to have a smart meter. I can change to Octopus or any other better deal if it becomes available. Gives plenty of time to make a decision on smart meters.

If I eventually hear from Octopus I'll report.

That's useful information, but I don't see how keeping your E7 meter is going to help if prices do go through the roof.
 
The advantage of a smart meter (and we are starting to see this now with certain multi-rate tariffs) is that, theoretically, it allows the energy supplier to split the 24 hour period into multiple charging periods and then apply the lowest possible unit rates for each period, rather than a simple single or dual rate average. We see this already in the large scale commercial market with bespoke "half-hourly" tariffs which are quoted based on the user's actual monitored usage history. Basically every half-hour of usage is charged at the lowest possible rate that the supplier could offer for that specific customer's usage.

The reason why EV owners currently get a great deal on E7 tariffs is because those tariffs were never intended for such heavy night consumption. So ultimately the supplier ends up losing profit because the average unit cost they carefully calculated to balance out overall with a more "typical" E7 usage profile ends up heavily biased toward the lower rate. Obviously this is not sustainable for the supplier and so as EV usage becomes more common, these tariffs will either change or disappear.

The problem with smart meters today is that there is no single standard that all suppliers are able to read. For example we currently have a smart meter that was fitted by SSE a couple of years ago and when we switched supplier last year they couldn't take readings from it, so we now supply manual readings instead. They will probably ask to fit their own smart meter at some point, which is fine by me. It's not a big job or hassle for the user, but totally inefficient for the energy suppliers!
 
E7 ... tariffs were never intended for such heavy night consumption

not sure about that. My recollection is that they were introduced for people with electric night storage heaters. Those must take a fair wack, overnight, to store as "heat". But ... the E7 rate is (usually?) a tad more than regular tariff for the Day Peak rate, so those night storage customers lost out during the day, and particularly in summer.

I suppose that all came about because generation plants were idle overnight, and thus the need to encourage use of the Base Load overnight. I don't think the power companies will mind if folk use nighttime to charge their cars - the Nuclear doesn't stop, and the Wind still blows ... no PV though of course :) If power Company can sell your electricity at night, rather than pump water up hill, I guess they would prefer to do that (and use Gas for Peaker Plants ... or Tesla batteries :) ... instead of Pumped Hydro)

I haven't really got my head around battery storage - whether best to install in each home and zero powercuts, "just down the road" providing reduced disruption within local communities, or centrally to gain economy-of-scale, use the existing distribution network, but no improvement for consumer on disruption.

I think there is an [efficiency] case for "transit at highest power" and "store and transmit at lowest power" which favours either local or Home. Home rubs up against people doing "payback" calculations and deciding the maths is lousy.

Personally I don't want any power cuts - I work from home even a 5 second power cut [once or twice a month here] disrupts the gear here, and a power cut of several hours [couple of times a year] means no work gets done (I can get the generator out ... but only if I know it is actually going to be several hours ...). So for me Battery Decision is easy ... but I suspect not for most. But currently Tesla doesn't have Solar Store and Whole House UPS product in the UK.

if I had a smart meter (they tried to install and said mobile phone signal was too weak, HoHum) and battery I would be buying cheapest rate possible,which may well be the ones with evening-peak (although currently they aren't actually cheap enough the rest of the time, compared to general shopping-around, to make much difference). My plan is to install more Solar than I am permitted to export, but store the remainder, hopefully some time this year.
 
So much depends on just how agile you can be with your electricity requirements...

A smart meter and flexible tariff is only really beneficial if you are able to move your consumption out of the high demand time periods, otherwise you just enable the power company to accurately penalize you for your usage instead of benefiting from the averaging out effect that we have with current dumb meters.

I do feel that the vast majority of people being encouraged to move to smart meters are going to regret it in the long run.

As the rates for peak periods get pushed higher and higher, only those able to afford solar, powerwalls etc. will be able to shift their demand away from the price increases. Once again leaving those less financially well off to take the hit.

Yes, obviously I realise this isn't a forum for the 'less financially well off' :)

... but I do consider the current marketing for smart meters to be extremely disingenuous when it proclaims the savings that can result, without mentioning the power it is giving to the suppliers to increase costs for those least able to avoid them or bear the consequences...
 
I do feel that the vast majority of people being encouraged to move to smart meters are going to regret it in the long run.

I disagree, anyone with a smart meter is still free to choose whatever tariff they like. I have a smart meter installed but am currently on a single rate "dumb" tariff. A smart meter just gives you more choice and suppliers will fit them FOC

Long term we will all be forced onto smart meters anyway and there will be no way to take advantage of some of the current dumb tariffs.
 
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