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Powerwall / battery storage: can you share how you use it with UK energy tariffs?

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I take your point that cheaper alternatives are available.

However I don’t know if the differential is quite that big… I’m seeing 15kWh Fogstar for £3000, 30kWh for £6000, with an inverter and installation to add on. (And I don’t know much about other inverters!)

Powerwalls can be installed for less than £8000 now.

It would be nice to run heat pump entirely on off-peak electricity…
Well, it's significant sum to spend so I personally prefer a system that is well known to work to specification and backed by a credible company.
I have no idea who Fogstar is, how good their kit is, whether it works as advertised and who will put things right of they happen to go wrong.
Very much a case of getting what you pay for, I suspect...
 
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One more question 😁, has anyone measured or calculated the degradation of their Powerwall battery?

I see the warranty guarantees 80% capacity at 10 years, depending on mode of operation and energy throughput
Well, I had a look at the API output and my 4 year old Powerwalls are still reporting just under 13.5kWh available. I think they ship with slightly more than advertised to absorb some of that first-year degradation so at the moment mine seem to be on track for a fairly long life span.
As I will be selling a lot more power to the grid this year (and for longer than that if Octopus Outgoing remains this generous!), though, I will definitely put more wear cycles into the system so we'll see how things go.
 
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Tricky one! There is talk about deemed export being dropped to be replaced by SEG or similar. I believe some suppliers have already implemented it. Not sure though. Nor am I sure what deal will follow. I haven’t been contacted by Octopus about it.

Difficult to know whether to sit tight. I assume your FIT rate is pretty good though!

Don’t we have a contract setting out the terms and duration of FIT and deemed payments?

(I do appreciate governments can basically do what they want 🙄)
 
Don’t we have a contract setting out the terms and duration of FIT and deemed payments?

(I do appreciate governments can basically do what they want 🙄)
You do, but if you look into the details, the deemed export is due to a lack of properly calibrated export meters, with the provision that if a properly calibrated meter is fitted then the deemed export can be replaced by metered export.

A smart meter is just such a meter, so some of the FiT providers took that as the trigger to remove deemed export and switch to metered export with readings collected from the smart meters.
 
(I do appreciate governments can basically do what they want 🙄)
Well, technically (and in a properly functioning society where the Judiciary and Executive powers are independent as is still the case in the UK) even governments have to abide by the terms of contacts they celebrate... But this may derail this thread quite badly so I'll just leave it at that ;)
 
You do, but if you look into the details, the deemed export is due to a lack of properly calibrated export meters, with the provision that if a properly calibrated meter is fitted then the deemed export can be replaced by metered export.

A smart meter is just such a meter, so some of the FiT providers took that as the trigger to remove deemed export and switch to metered export with readings collected from the smart meters.
Exactly this.
 
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IOG with a Gen1 GivEnergy battery and hybrid inverter. Nominally 8.2kWh but it's around 6.5kWh with the top and bottom buffers taken into account. Fortunately I have swerved the firmware problems that some GE customers have had.

Locally controlled with HA which stops the battery discharging into off-peak slots and actually charges the battery in those slots instead.

Have thought about adding a second battery at times but the payback period would probably be very long.
 
However I don’t know if the differential is quite that big… I’m seeing 15kWh Fogstar for £3000, 30kWh for £6000, with an inverter and installation to add on. (And I don’t know much about other inverters!)

I was assuming Fogstar Energy 15.5Kwh 48V Battery for £2500 the inverter cost depends on the wattage you want, but a hybred inverter is not much more then a basic PV inverter (if installing PV).
 
It would be nice to run heat pump entirely on off-peak electricity…
Yet another option is octopus cosy: you get 2 off peak periods (4-7am, 1-4pm). The off peak amount is ~17p at the moment, the majority of the day is a bit cheaper than IO, but 4-7pm is a lot more expensive.

More expensive just for the car, but on most winter days all the heat pump activity was during the off peak period or from stored energy (the powerwall was recharging from grid during both off peak period )
 
Octopus also have had 14 "saving sessions" between 1.5hrs and .5hr since Nov 2023 that paid between £1.75 and £4 per kWh saved and includes exports. I've made £117.
To give you the most flexibility, I suggest requesting from the DNO permission to export the max combined export from the Powerwalls + solar inverter(s). In my case I have 2 Powerwalls (5KW each) and a 3.68KW inverter, but the DNO only allowed a max of 8.68 export.
 
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Octopus also have had 14 "saving sessions" between 1.5hrs and .5hr since Nov 2023 that paid between £1.75 and £4 per kWh saved and includes exports. I've made £117.
To give you the most flexibility, I suggest requesting from the DNO permission to export the max combined export from the Powerwalls + solar inverter(s). In my case I have 2 Powerwalls (5KW each) and a 3.68KW inverter, but the DNO only allowed a max of 8.68 export.
As I understand it, I would have to give up the deemed part of my FIT payments to benefit from export during saving sessions, right?

We made about £35 from the Octopus savings sessions, by er, just saving energy 😄
 
My thoughts:

switching to an Octopus export tariff to replace the deemed export is worth the risk

Questionable whether Decent Price for Export will be persistent. As more PV is installed maybe there will be less incentive to pay a good price for Export (you allude to this later in the thread ...) but its put me off doing it ... I am more focused on using everything I can generate, and taking the 50% deemed export FIT

In winter, the ASHP will often use more than one Powerwall can provide just charging once per day.

Solar PV is going to do next-to-nothing for you in Winter (I am sure you know that, so just mentioning)

How do you prioritise Powerwall and car charging?

I have a lot more panels than you, I have to charge car at same time as PowerWall - 'coz once PowerWall is full I have more than 7KW of generation (on good days, Natch!) and that would require that both EVs are available for charging

The problem I have with Tesla's AI for how much overnight charge level to attain (based on prediction of "tomorrows sun") is that it has no idea how much I need for the cars. So it charges to, say, 50% because tomorrow will be sunny - but I wanted PowerWall to 100% because I was planning to put all PV into the cars.

So, for me, I want a system where I say (roughly) how many miles each car is going to do for the next few days, and when they will be parked at home (available for PV charging) / away, and then have the API-stuff attempt best-fit (charge cars to 90%, maybe even 95%, if a journey is imminent, but be content with 50% car-charge if planned journeys are only local). For most people (with, say, 16 panels or less) maybe this is irrelevant as there isn't enough PV generation to need to try to be clever.

I use time based over winter Oct-Apr and self powered the rest of the year.

Me too. I have to remember when it changes over, in Spring, because it stops being Tesla's responsibility to charge PW overnight and discharge during the day ... and is now my responsibility!

When the days are still "a bit short" the time between Sun-Down and Off-Peak start (and again in the morning from Off-Peak end to Sun-up and PV generation exceeding household usage), which needs support from Batteries, is more of a challenge than in mid summer when the PV is generating from 6AM to 7PM (and I have 100% at 7PM then I have no difficulty surviving from 7PM to 6AM on battery - as my night usage is lower than my day usage)

total cost would then be in excess of 10 years of our current electricity bill... maybe I need some different man maths

You could use my man Maths ... I'm afraid that is just "JFDI".

But ... having used that algorithm :) and spent a fortune for each early-adopter Eco thing I have done, I have been fortunate that all of them paid off. Extra PowerWall, extra PV Panels ... Putin decided he needed to annex Ukraine and price of Leccy skyrocketed and (I thought at the time) there was a very real risk of rolling power cuts. And you would not have been able to get a PowerWall installed in a reasonable timeframe for love-nor-money. Glad I did every single Eco thing that I have done.

setting the backup reserve to current percentage will "pause the battery" at a guess

Yup.

In case useful to O/P: first thing in morning my Reserve is changed to 45% (calculated as being enough, just, from 6PM to start of Off Peak). If there is decent sun (in Winter) I will get to 6PM with considerably more than 45%. At 6PM reserve is reduced to 0%. So rather than running a permanent 10%/whatever reserve, I run down from 45% "in the evening". On some miserable, rainy, winter days I am drawing from grid (e.g. lunchtime-to-6PM battery is holding reserve at 45%). I think this is kinder to the grid (I stop using Grid when it gets busy in the evening), and if I get a power cut earlier in the day I have a much more decent reserve than an arbitrary "10%". If my battery runs to 0% when Off Peak starts, and we then have a power cut, I'm tucked up in bed and not too bothered. A 10% reserve would only give me a couple of hours anyway, so I would still wake up to "nothing"

It would be nice to run heat pump entirely on off-peak electricity…

Insulate the house and run the Heat Pump thermostat "a bit high" overnight.

My house will lose 1C if I turn everything off and go away for the weekend, in mid-winter. So "overheat on Off Peak" would be entirely viable for me (except I don't have a heat pump !)
 
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Fully automated using HA to protect the PW2 when charging outside the 23:30-05:30 low rate period.
Hi @Mark_T, can you share which Home Assistant Tesla integration you are using, and perhaps the automation rules?

I was just reading this, and it’s getting rather involved now the older API has been deprecated.
 
Hi @Mark_T, can you share which Home Assistant Tesla integration you are using, and perhaps the automation rules?

I was just reading this, and it’s getting rather involved now the older API has been deprecated.
Not yet had to worry about the 'Fleet' API as I'm not trying to connect to a Tesla vehicle at this time, just the PW2...

So I'm using the standard Tesla Powerwall integration and the Tesla Custom integration just for setting the battery reserve.

The only bit that needed a little effort was obtaining the current PW2 SoC as the custom integration no longer gets that data after one of the recent changes to the API, but it isn't hard to approximate it from the SoC data in the standard Tesla integration as that can return the total SoC for each PW2 pack in your system.

Not sure how useful my automations would be though as they are driven from the Zappi API and the Octopus API so they are a bit specific, but happy to answer any questions if you are having problems with your particular setup...