As the title says, what does everyone think are the best tires and sizes for tracking the Model 3? We know that the Pilot Sport 4S works great for basic use, so what about dedicated track tires.
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Best Tires/Wheels for Tracking Model 3
- Thread starter kbecks13
- Start date
Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
Cameron Rogers puts slicks on his Model 3 for Laguana Seca:
Here's him putting it on at 1:32 and the aftermath at 4:21
Here's him putting it on at 1:32 and the aftermath at 4:21
Haha yea definitely "slicks", but i was hoping to get more specific with different brands/models that people like. Since Tesla's are so heavy, they tend to wear out tires much faster than a regular track car might - which means certain brands may work better compared to others.
Some people might be using 100% pure track tires and others may have something that is like 80% track/20% street and allows you to drive to the track on your racing tires.
I'm also super curious to hear what SIZES people are running, specifically with regard to tire width. The stock tires on the P3D+ are 235/35/20 and i've heard some people are even thinking about running 265s!
Some people might be using 100% pure track tires and others may have something that is like 80% track/20% street and allows you to drive to the track on your racing tires.
I'm also super curious to hear what SIZES people are running, specifically with regard to tire width. The stock tires on the P3D+ are 235/35/20 and i've heard some people are even thinking about running 265s!
I have the same question. When I have a fun car I always itch to do performance mods, but since that is out I will need to start with wheels/tires. I enjoyed my first road course and I'm going again in a few weeks. Wider rear tires will also give the car a little more of an aggressive look, which is my only nitpick with the 3. (at least give me my damn spoiler!)
I figure I will pick up some lightweight rims with performance tires and keep my stocks for some winter tires.
I figure I will pick up some lightweight rims with performance tires and keep my stocks for some winter tires.
Without changing the rolling diameter, which is REALLY bad from several standpoints, you want a 19 inch lightweight wheel from Advanti (22 lbs) with a 9.5 inch width, allowing you to run 265/35-19 tires, which will give awesome bite in the corners. I'd love to experience the AWD Performance model 3 digging out of a tight corner with AWD and that much rubber and 472 ft lbs of torque. Would be incredible!!
Best part, no increase in unsprung weight, perhaps even dropping a couple of lbs, as the wheel is 10 lbs less, while the tire is heavier, but not by as much. At that size (265/35-19), I would call Tire Rack and ask them what they would recommend for a track tire.
If you don't mind losing a lot of charge range, you could run Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, and use on both track and street, but your mileage will really suffer. Part of how Tesla got low rolling resistance out of the PS 4S was getting them re-engineered to run at 42 lbs without abnormal crown wear (probably changed the belt and perhaps other aspects), so that the Performance version 235/35-20 tire could run with significantly more pressure and still wear evenly across the whole tread instead of balding the crown of the tire. I doubt that the much larger 265/35 19's will have that ability, but I'd ask the Tire Rack about that, and what they might recommend for a pure track tire. Your ride is also going to realistically, well, suck with that much rubber. But the grip should be incredible.
Best part, no increase in unsprung weight, perhaps even dropping a couple of lbs, as the wheel is 10 lbs less, while the tire is heavier, but not by as much. At that size (265/35-19), I would call Tire Rack and ask them what they would recommend for a track tire.
If you don't mind losing a lot of charge range, you could run Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, and use on both track and street, but your mileage will really suffer. Part of how Tesla got low rolling resistance out of the PS 4S was getting them re-engineered to run at 42 lbs without abnormal crown wear (probably changed the belt and perhaps other aspects), so that the Performance version 235/35-20 tire could run with significantly more pressure and still wear evenly across the whole tread instead of balding the crown of the tire. I doubt that the much larger 265/35 19's will have that ability, but I'd ask the Tire Rack about that, and what they might recommend for a pure track tire. Your ride is also going to realistically, well, suck with that much rubber. But the grip should be incredible.
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here'a a link to some max performance, or even more specialized extreme performance (track/street) summer rubber, all in the 265/35-19 size. I personally would check out the brand new just released Brigdestone Potenza S007. Pretty cheap for track tires that you can run on the street.
What kind of range do you think that would take? I don't know the impact of rubber on rolling friction. Are you thinking a percent here and there or something drastic?
Good question and I don't have precise physical data or numbers on this. But it's a lot more than a percent here or there, might be as much as 10-15% reduction in range.
There are a couple of reasons for that: 1) Bridgestone and Yokohama extreme performance (dual track/street) tires (two of the more popular brands for this type of specialty tire) are not low rolling resistance, and run at normal pressures as opposed to the elevated pressure that I'm supposed to run in my Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires (42 pounds versus 34 to 35 pounds on a typical street high-performance tire); 2) the tire itself is way wider than the stock rubber, so it's going to have both greater rolling resistance and also significant addition of aerodynamic drag.
I don't know what the relative contributions of aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance are, but I believe they both are proportional to the square of the speed. This is why your car gets significantly poorer mileage at 80 miles an hour compared to 40 miles an hour. And this is true irrespective of whether you're using a high-efficiency electric motor or a less efficient internal combustion engine. Same basic physics.
So, I would be guessing but I suspect that compared the stock rubber, a 265/35-19 tire compared to a 235/35-20 tire is gonna be costing you something like 20 to 30 miles of overall range on the extended range battery (~with its 310 miles optimistically). It's possible it's even worse than that. Again this 20-30 mile hit estimate is just a guess, but I saw my own mileage drop significantly when I upgraded tire width just 1 cm all around on a Lexus IS 350. I lost about 8% of my gas mileage. I have no way of knowing how much that was simply increased rolling resistance versus air resistance but it's probably a bit of both.
All this means when you go for the max cornering track package, and you don't swap back to your stock rims and tires, the car's range is going to take a significant hit. Like everything else, it's all trade-offs. I'd love to see my car on wider rubber, and at some point I might go to the 245/35-20 tires, but even with those I'm probably going to take a hit. Going a full more than inch wider from stock 235 to an ultra wide 265 rubber, Is going to be a big hit. But I bet it will look awesome!!
There are a couple of reasons for that: 1) Bridgestone and Yokohama extreme performance (dual track/street) tires (two of the more popular brands for this type of specialty tire) are not low rolling resistance, and run at normal pressures as opposed to the elevated pressure that I'm supposed to run in my Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires (42 pounds versus 34 to 35 pounds on a typical street high-performance tire); 2) the tire itself is way wider than the stock rubber, so it's going to have both greater rolling resistance and also significant addition of aerodynamic drag.
I don't know what the relative contributions of aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance are, but I believe they both are proportional to the square of the speed. This is why your car gets significantly poorer mileage at 80 miles an hour compared to 40 miles an hour. And this is true irrespective of whether you're using a high-efficiency electric motor or a less efficient internal combustion engine. Same basic physics.
So, I would be guessing but I suspect that compared the stock rubber, a 265/35-19 tire compared to a 235/35-20 tire is gonna be costing you something like 20 to 30 miles of overall range on the extended range battery (~with its 310 miles optimistically). It's possible it's even worse than that. Again this 20-30 mile hit estimate is just a guess, but I saw my own mileage drop significantly when I upgraded tire width just 1 cm all around on a Lexus IS 350. I lost about 8% of my gas mileage. I have no way of knowing how much that was simply increased rolling resistance versus air resistance but it's probably a bit of both.
All this means when you go for the max cornering track package, and you don't swap back to your stock rims and tires, the car's range is going to take a significant hit. Like everything else, it's all trade-offs. I'd love to see my car on wider rubber, and at some point I might go to the 245/35-20 tires, but even with those I'm probably going to take a hit. Going a full more than inch wider from stock 235 to an ultra wide 265 rubber, Is going to be a big hit. But I bet it will look awesome!!
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Makes sense. If my 2nd track event goes as well as my first I suspect some better rubber/wheels are in my future. Stock rims will be able to go with winter tires as well which is a bonus.Good question and I don't have precise physical data or numbers on this. But it's a lot more than a percent here or there, might be as much as 10-15% reduction in range.
There are a couple of reasons for that: 1) Bridgestone and Yokohama extreme performance (dual track/street) tires (two of the more popular brands for this type of specialty tire) are not low rolling resistance, and run at normal pressures as opposed to the elevated pressure that I'm supposed to run in my Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires (42 pounds versus 34 to 35 pounds on a typical street high-performance tire); 2) the tire itself is way wider than the stock rubber, so it's going to have both greater rolling resistance and also significant addition of aerodynamic drag.
I don't know what the relative contributions of aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance are, but I believe they both are proportional to the square of the speed. This is why your car gets significantly poorer mileage at 80 miles an hour compared to 40 miles an hour. And this is true irrespective of whether you're using a high-efficiency electric motor or a less efficient internal combustion engine. Same basic physics.
So, I would be guessing but I suspect that compared the stock rubber, a 265/35-19 tire compared to a 235/35-20 tire is gonna be costing you something like 20 to 30 miles of overall range on the extended range battery (~with its 310 miles optimistically). It's possible it's even worse than that. Again this 20-30 mile hit estimate is just a guess, but I saw my own mileage drop significantly when I upgraded tire width just 1 cm all around on a Lexus IS 350. I lost about 8% of my gas mileage. I have no way of knowing how much that was simply increased rolling resistance versus air resistance but it's probably a bit of both.
All this means when you go for the max cornering track package, and you don't swap back to your stock rims and tires, the car's range is going to take a significant hit. Like everything else, it's all trade-offs. I'd love to see my car on wider rubber, and at some point I might go to the 245/35-20 tires, but even with those I'm probably going to take a hit. Going a full more than inch wider from stock 235 to an ultra wide 265 rubber, Is going to be a big hit. But I bet it will look awesome!!
This guy is what we would call a tweakophile. Someone who likes tweaking stuff whether or not it helps or hurts. Specifically in this case he turns off a critical part of the cars ABS and other systems by disconnecting the front wheel rotational speed sensing. It's bizarre that someone thinks this is going to help them, and since it disables ABSand some other stuff too, might even result in a serious accident where they lock up their wheels and lose control. He's a frankly kind of a dope.
I think RE71R are still the best street/track tires. S007 are only 240 tread wear where the RE71R are 200 (or 140)
I have a square set of 255 on my P85 and while they are pumped up I actually get about the same range as I did on all seasons...but they wear out pretty fast
I have a square set of 255 on my P85 and while they are pumped up I actually get about the same range as I did on all seasons...but they wear out pretty fast
Have you compared these RE 71R's to the Michelin pilot sport 4S tire? Tire Rack has done some recent testing of Max performance summer tires, and they feel that the pilot sport 4S is still the best tire in that category. The Michelin super sport was the antecedent model. I've owned those and those were great. Their tread wear is pretty good too,
I have tried PS2's, RE11, and 3 sets of RE71R ( by far the best 'street' tire) PS4 not sure about but I imagine the RE71R is better + will wear out faster
Yes and I'd love to get your feedback after you try out some radical rubber. The car is not light weight and in that sense a 235 tire irrespective of aspect ratio is going to be a bit 'traction-challenged' so to speak. It's a testimony to the remarkable competency of the suspension and drivetrain that the car handles as well as it does with relatively skinny rubber. My car weighs over 4000 pounds and even though it's got a great 50/50 weight distribution, that's 1000 pounds a tire. Even though that's well underneath its maximum load which I think is about 1300 pounds, the car begs for wider rubber. But I'm also finding that my range is significantly less than 310 miles anyway, unless I really baby the thing and keep the speed under 60. So bumping up the tire width to a 245/35 – 20, while great from an aesthetics and cornering/breaking/performance standpoint, might hit me right in the range spot.
I'm very much a novice but on the track I felt like the car was keeping it's balance extremely well, I didn't feel that the car tipped at all in the curves, but it definitely wanted to slide a little which I attribute to weight/grip. I swear it never got off level.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
He did that to disable the stability control, a very common thing to do when driving on a track or autocross course
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
RE71R is a different class of tire, "Extreme Performance". It's generally considered the best 200 treadwear tire.
That's interesting Daniel. I'm familiar with their various categories, and I know the extreme performance tires tend to be track items only. But is the RE 71R distinctly and clearly better than the Bridgestone pole position 007 which just came out? That's their latest extreme performance class tire.
He did that to disable the stability control, a very common thing to do when driving on a track or autocross course
Oh boy. I'm pretty familiar with the practice Daniel I just take issue with it in this case. On a lot of cars that might make the car faster particularly a Lexus, and other cars with what i would call 'grandmother' stability controls. I don't think it actually makes the car faster in this case, And it most certainly will not make it faster once Tesla enables its track mode in software. Drifting/sliding is not the same as going faster. Some people might consider it to be cooler, but it isn't necessarily faster. If you look at Formula One, cars achieve their best speeds before they break traction. Once you start breaking traction you actually are going to go slower. This is been proven dozens of times over in relationship to ABS functioning. Your braking is best just before your tire loses grip. Once it's sliding, your traction envelope has actually been deteriorated. This is true both in relationship to lateral as well as straight line acceleration/deceleration.
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Yeah for sure those extreme performance tires won't set any mileage records. You've piqued my curiosity though and I'm going to dig out what tirerack's testing says about the RE 71R. I had a set of the RE 71's many years ago but it wasn't the R version just the regular version. They were good, but not as good as the Michelin super sports, at least subjectively. Obviously if you're willing to give up tire mileage you can make tires a lot stickier. The 4S is really significantly better however than the Michelin super sports, which were the benchmark tire in Max performance. I'm curious if there is a benchmark tire according to tirerack's own testing in the extreme performance group. Like I said you've piqued my curiosity.