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BMS/Balancing cells

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Hi all, I've read various things on the forum about having to charge up to 100% and down low to re-balance the cells/packs and allow the computer to adjust its range estimates.

However has this information been obtained from Tesla or based off recorded data? at the moment my wife charges up to 80% then usually only runs down to about 50% before charging back up to 90% again.

Trying to get the real info on this or if I should just keep going as we are.
 
Hi all, I've read various things on the forum about having to charge up to 100% and down low to re-balance the cells/packs and allow the computer to adjust its range estimates.

However has this information been obtained from Tesla or based off recorded data? at the moment my wife charges up to 80% then usually only runs down to about 50% before charging back up to 90% again.

Trying to get the real info on this or if I should just keep going as we are.
I believe that they only thing that has been said is that Elon indicated that charging to 90% was recommended. That supposedly allows the batteries to balance.

I don't recommend running the batteries down low just for the heck of it. I charge to 100% every few months, both to allow batteries to balance and mostly because I'm doing a trip.

I think that the MOST IMPORTANT THING is to enjoy the car and NOT worry about the battery.
 
The ritual of balancing has been a die hard legend.

If you want to hear from the horses' mouth (Jerome Guillen I VP, WW sales and service in 2014 ): He acknowledged that even their own staff do preach that stuff but he discouraged such ritual.

Teslarati also published another different statement from Tesla that discouraged the practice.
Thanks for digging up that post from from 2014. There's so much conflicting information out there, and I've never come across anything that seemed definitive, except for "A plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla" - which was said to be in one of the early owner's manuals.

I've tended to charge to 80% and then go as low as practical, keeping in mind what my next day would be like. I'll consider reducing my daily charge limit much to lower than 80% and just plug in every day when I get home vis-a-vis "charge frequently, charge often."
 
...real world use from Kim...

The other two 2014 links also talked about the real world.

The range calculation would drift off and become inaccurate and makes drivers think that the range has been lost.

But actually, the range and capacity is still there.

To make drivers feel better, Tesla staff would deplete and fully charge your battery to reset its calculation.

That indeed would show that you now gain more range.

Those 2014 links say it makes human feel good but not for your own battery.

But as Kim pointed out, Elon Musk is ok with 90% and 5%.

I think what he's talking about is to make the car practical for long distance trip, don't hesitate to use it to the fullest.

However, I don't think he means, go ahead and keep grinding your battery through multiple 90-5% cycles for "balancing" just to make human feels good by looking at the number and not for practical long distance driving.
 
Hi all, I've read various things on the forum about having to charge up to 100% and down low to re-balance the cells/packs and allow the computer to adjust its range estimates.

However has this information been obtained from Tesla or based off recorded data? at the moment my wife charges up to 80% then usually only runs down to about 50% before charging back up to 90% again.

Trying to get the real info on this or if I should just keep going as we are.

I think the two things you mention often get confused, balancing the battery cells and calibrating the range/kWh estimates.

I don’t know of any information either obtained or released from Tesla that talks about the details of how the BMS works. However, there’s folks like wk057 who have done some awesome work to better understand what’s going on underneath the “hood”. What we do know is charging above ~93% is what triggers the balancing between cell packs to begin (charging changes from constant current to constant voltage). From what I’ve read, it’s not fully understood how long this balancing goes (days, weeks, etc.). If you search around these forums, you can get some detailed information on how the balancing is occurring (can’t seem to find the threads right now). That being said, it’s also been discovered this isn’t really something you need to do unless you’re experiecing issues and/or directed to do so by Tesla. Plenty of us monitor our cell voltage and the BMS does a very good job of keeping cell voltages across the pack within single digit mV.

As far as calibrating the range/kWh estimate, there’s also some detailed information you can find on these forums but from what I understand, your range estimates are the most accurate when you’re near 100% and 0% SOC. When you’re operating between say, 40-70%, supposedly the range/kWh accuracy can start to “drift” from the true battery levels, thus resulting in a less accurate indication. By charging to 100% and discharging to near 0%, it provides the BMS an opportunity to better understand where the true “limits” are which will provide a better/more accurate range estimation. There have been Tesla service centers that recommend charging to 100% and discharging to lower SOCs a few times for customers experience battery issues. Some folks will see an increase in the rated range after following this process which leads them to believe you’re some how gaining range or that it’s “good” for battery health. In reality, all you’re seeing is a more accurate range estimation.

TLDR: Having balanced battery cells is good for battery health, but there’s nothing you really need to do to “re-balance” your battery unless you’re experiencing issues or told to do so by Tesla. Cycling from 100% to near 0% is simply providing a more accurate range estimate and not something you need to do for maintaining battery health.

Anyways, you’ll find some better explanation in other threads but that’s my caveman understanding of it. All that to say, you should just keep doing as you are. ;)
 
Sorry for dragging up old thread, but seems to suit my post. I have tried to get to the bottom of charging routine to best promote better health and longevity - and for the battery too!

I finally got SMT setup and time to play a bit. Being a newer 100 battery I'm not looking for any serious issues but trying to know what I have today and look after it.

The car had been sitting unplugged for some time (weeks) gradually losing charge to phantom drain. The starting map from SMT showed pretty small imbalance but spread randomly over all cells.

Only while charging did I see the difference start to reduce and more cells come to the same voltage.

I think this is a time issue. Low charge rate for a longer time gives time for better balancing. No discharging / recharging, but just slow charge (2-3kw) to 80% - letting the car end the charge when ready - ended up with what I reckon much be a well balanced pack:

Screenshot_2020-06-23-12-20-16.png
Screenshot_2020-06-23-12-20-21.png
 
Sorry for dragging up old thread, but seems to suit my post. I have tried to get to the bottom of charging routine to best promote better health and longevity - and for the battery too!

I finally got SMT setup and time to play a bit. Being a newer 100 battery I'm not looking for any serious issues but trying to know what I have today and look after it.

The car had been sitting unplugged for some time (weeks) gradually losing charge to phantom drain. The starting map from SMT showed pretty small imbalance but spread randomly over all cells.

Only while charging did I see the difference start to reduce and more cells come to the same voltage.

I think this is a time issue. Low charge rate for a longer time gives time for better balancing. No discharging / recharging, but just slow charge (2-3kw) to 80% - letting the car end the charge when ready - ended up with what I reckon much be a well balanced pack:

View attachment 555205 View attachment 555206

So are you saying that you ran the battery low, then slowly charged it back up to 80%, and it rebalanced itself?
 
So are you saying that you ran the battery low, then slowly charged it back up to 80%, and it rebalanced itself?

Yes and no.

I don't know for certain if this will be the same for all batteries, but in my case (100kwh) with the car just standing for 4 weeks or more, the cells certainly did not rebalance themselves. My battery only discharged to around 60%. I set the charge limit to 75% and the charge rate to about 2kw and just left the car to sort itself out. Then after a day or two, set the charge limit to 80% and the rate a bit slower and let it come slowly to 80% and finish off on its own.

The cells seem to balance during charging and the longer / slower the charging is, the longer time they get to balance.

At 80% a sharp stamp on the gas causes a momentary 400 mv imbalance in the balanced pack. It would be interesting to hear what on-load imbalance it typical.

Screenshot_2020-06-23-13-23-51.png
 
So are you saying that you ran the battery low, then slowly charged it back up to 80%, and it rebalanced itself?

To reinforce what some others have said, running the battery down (just for the sake of it) and charging from a low SOC is unlikely to do anything other than recalibrate range calculations (maybe) and 'use up' some of your battery's lifetime energy throughput.

Slow, low power charges and gentle driving, minimum heavy power spikes from the battery and more long, slow charging would seem to be best to get a battery back into a good state of balance from my experience.
 
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