BMW i

[tommolog]

BMW sources have said to some newspapers the car will cost 400,000 kroner here. That's about $69,000. A new 60 kWh Model S costs 446 000 kroner here, or $77,000.

I sincerely hope for BMW's sake that it will be cheaper than 400,000 kroner, or I guess they'll sell less than ten of them.

It's odd that the i3 would be so disproportionately priced in Norway compared to the Model S. In the US the 60kWh S starts at $70k. The i3 is rumored to start in the mid-40's here (BMW has confirmed it will cost less than a 5-series which starts at about 48K). So while the Model S costs you only $7,000 more than it does in the US, an i3 will cost about $25,000 more. I think you are going to find in much less than what you expect once the official pricing is announced.

I do agree if your pricing is somehow correct they won't sell too many of them there for sure.

 

[Robster]

I will try to get a price estimate out of them for Europe, let's see what they say. And indeed, I'm wondering myself why they do not predict less range with cold weather. I'll certainly ask!

I had to bring my drivers licence...hope hope hope

 

[Yggdrasill]

It's odd that the i3 would be so disproportionately priced in Norway compared to the Model S. In the US the 60kWh S starts at $70k. The i3 is rumored to start in the mid-40's here (BMW has confirmed it will cost less than a 5-series which starts at about 48K). So while the Model S costs you only $7,000 more than it does in the US, an i3 will cost about $25,000 more. I think you are going to find in much less than what you expect once the official pricing is announced.

I do agree if your pricing is somehow correct they won't sell too many of them there for sure.

One possibility is that some BMW employees have confused the pricing with and without range extender. The BMW i3 will be pricey here with the range extender, as it will be taxed as a hybrid, not an electric car. That adds around $17,000 in taxes. (So the range extender will cost around $21,000 here.) For comparison, a Volt/Ampera starts at $64,000 here.

But if the pricing is correct, without range extender; the i3 with range extender will end up costing about the same as a 85 kWh Model S.

 

[agentsmith1612]

One possibility is that some BMW employees have confused the pricing with and without range extender. The BMW i3 will be pricey here with the range extender, as it will be taxed as a hybrid, not an electric car. That adds around $17,000 in taxes. (So the range extender will cost around $21,000 here.) For comparison, a Volt/Ampera starts at $64,000 here.

But if the pricing is correct, without range extender; the i3 with range extender will end up costing about the same as a 85 kWh Model S.

The taxes are depend to the country where you live and where you buy.
For example, here in Germany you get not benefits when you buy a full EV, but don't have to pay extra (or normal) taxes if you buy a hybride or normal ICE.

 

[tommolog]

The taxes are depend to the country where you live and where you buy.
For example, here in Germany you get not benefits when you buy a full EV, but don't have to pay extra (or normal) taxes if you buy a hybride or normal ICE.

It's like that here in the States, but varies from State to State. Here in New Jersey Pure EV's are sales tax exempt. So if I get the BEV i3 there is no sales tax, but if I get the range extender option, then I pay the 7% sales tax. However the price is MUCH less than what you are guessing it would be over there. Here is a very close approximation of what it will cost me here:

Base i3 ~$45,000 and no sales tax.
Base i3 w/ REx option $48,500 + $3,400(tax) = $51,900

So the range extender will actually cost me about $7,000 extra

Any way you order it the i3 will qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit which I didn't account for in the above numbers so you can subtract that from the totals

 

[VolkerP]

The interesting thing is, with legislation that favors "pure" EVs, the range extender gets hit with excessively high additional cost. This makes a larger battery look not that bad in comparison. E.g. Tesla Model S: step up the Model S-60 with supercharging to S-85, you spend $8k on 25kWh. That would double the capacity of the i3, though not the range - it might be hard to accommodate the additional battery weight and volume there.

 

[tommolog]

The interesting thing is, with legislation that favors "pure" EVs, the range extender gets hit with excessively high additional cost. This makes a larger battery look not that bad in comparison. E.g. Tesla Model S: step up the Model S-60 with supercharging to S-85, you spend $8k on 25kWh. That would double the capacity of the i3, though not the range - it might be hard to accommodate the additional battery weight and volume there.

You are definitely correct. Would you rather spend your money for taxes or get a bigger battery? Tesla's the only company with the vision to offer optional packs so far so nobody will really have that decision unfortunately. If BMW offered an optional battery pack that was 7-8kWh larger it would basically cost the same as getting the range extender and paying the sales tax. A 30kWh (vs the standard 22kWh) i3 would do very well in the States I believe.

 

[smorgasbord]

What's interesting is that it appears that the i3 with Range Extender actually qualifies as a Pure EV in California, in terms of HOV stickers anyway:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11766466/1/bmw-cuts-off-toyota-gm-and-ford-in-california.html

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1082814_bmw-i3-electric-car-rex-range-extender-not-for-daily-use

Apparently, as long as the range on gas is less than the range on electric, the car is considered like pure BEVs. So when the 40K Green stickers run out (Volt and PI Prius for instance), the i3 will still qualify for the unlimited White stickers (or maybe that's 200K per company, I'm not sure).

The comments about you not really wanting to run on gas are spot on here. I would guess that, if possible, many people would turn on the gas engine to charge the battery when the battery is just below half full. That way they can have full power longer, since the motorcycle engine is pretty wimpy for a car.

BTW, did anyone else notice how wide the i3 is! I think it's almost as wide as a Model S.

 

[agentsmith1612]

BTW, did anyone else notice how wide the i3 is! I think it's almost as wide as a Model S.

I found these values:

length: 3,85 m
width: 2,01 m (with or without mirrors ?)
height: 1,54 m

Sorry for metric values.

For comparison the width of a Model S with mirrors is 2,19 m.

 

[tommolog]

I found these values:

length: 3,85 m
width: 2,01 m (with or without mirrors ?)
height: 1,54 m

Sorry for metric values.

For comparison the width of a Model S with mirrors is 2,19 m.

It's definitely not nearly as wide as a Model S. I measured the concept i3 and it was about 1,8 m (~70") without the mirrors so it's possible it's 2,01(~79") if you include them.

 

[agentsmith1612]

It's definitely not nearly as wide as a Model S. I measured the concept i3 and it was about 1,8 m (~70") without the mirrors so it's possible it's 2,01(~79") if you include them.

I expect that my value is with mirrors, if not the car would be very wide.

 

[surfingslovak]

BMW Has Several Hundred Pre-Orders For i3, First Pre-Production i3s Completed

Today at BMW’s Annual Report Press Conference in Munich, Norbert Reithofer, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG, gave us some interesting updates on the status of BMW’s i3 project while projecting what 2013 will hold for the automaker.

“The future belongs to those who dare to venture”, said Reithofer, as ”electromobility will be very much in the spotlight for the BMW Group in 2013.”

BMW Does Some i3 Testing In Public View Earlier This Year
Mr. Reithofer says that the i3's production line is now currently active and has already produced its first pre-series BMW i3s, beginning this past January in anticipation of being on the market “by the end of the year.”

Although not readily available for the public to order yet, the BMW executive also added that, “Several hundred advance orders have already been received for the BMW i3.”

During the conference, BMW again re-iterated that the i3 has an approximate range of 150 km (93 miles), and should weigh 250 to 350 kgs (550lbs to 770lbs) less than a “conventional” electric car.

Given the limited amount of EVs the public might consider as a “conventional” electric car, one has to assume Norbert is referencing the Nissan LEAF. As a point of reference, the LEAF weighs about 3,350lbs, making the i3 tip the scales around 2,600 to 2,800 pounds.

Click to open

 

[smorgasbord]

I expect that my value is with mirrors, if not the car would be very wide.

I found this article: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/BMW-i3-2013-electric-car-test-ride/

the i3 is shorter than a Suzuki Swift, wider than a 7-series and lower than a Hyundai i10.

The current BMW 7-series is 74.9" wide (without mirrors), according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series From http://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/bmw_7-series_2004_745li-4dr-sdn_dimensions, that's without mirrors.

So, yeah, not as wide as Model S (is anything?), but still quite wide for a short car.

 

[surfingslovak]

So, yeah, not as wide as Model S (is anything?), but still quite wide for a short car.

The outside dimensions should be very close to the LEAF, except that the i3 will reportedly be about foot and half shorter.

i3 Coupé:
--------
156" long
69" wide
61" tall

LEAF
--------
175" long
70" wide 
61" tall

ActiveE:
--------
172" long
69" wide
56" tall

MINI-E
--------
146" long
66" wide
55" tall

 

[Robster]

I was invited to the product introduction of the I3 in the Netherlands. Test rides were in the Active-E (converted 1 series). They had one pre production model which they said costs about 1 mln euros. There was a sturdy looking head office guy from Germany watching the car (no touching, stay away at least two meters).

The head of BMW I in the Netherlands confirmed that the price would be between the Leaf and the Ampera. After a little push he (unofficially) confirmed a base proce of 37k. For comparison, my BMW 116i from last year (with some option packages) costs 33k in the Netherlands.

He said that due to better thermal management especially during pre cooling and warming of the car, you won't notice loss of range in cold weather. He confirmed that the 150km of range was based on the average BMW 3 series driver. Those drivers are not known for their subtle right foot. If you did not hit the pedal to the metal, and drive in Eco you would be able to drive close to 200 km on the highway.

The REx option would add 150kg to the car, thus slightly impacting the range. After the presentation I spoke to one of the BMW I guys and he said that BMW is expecting to nearly double the range of the I3 in about 5 years.

 

[tommolog]

"He said that due to better thermal management especially during pre cooling and warming of the car, you won't notice loss of range in cold weather."

That simply isn't possible. They may have improved cold weather performance and range, but there is no way it will travel the same distance at 30F as it will at 80F. It range was only compromised by 10- 15% in these cold temperatures than that would be a dramatic improvement.

 

[Yggdrasill]

If it could travel 150 km/93 miles in -20C/-4F it would be wildly popular here. That's about twice the range of a Leaf. But I doubt it.

I hope we can get past the marketing BS at some point.

 

[Robster]

"He said that due to better thermal management especially during pre cooling and warming of the car, you won't notice loss of range in cold weather."

That simply isn't possible. They may have improved cold weather performance and range, but there is no way it will travel the same distance at 30F as it will at 80F. It range was only compromised by 10- 15% in these cold temperatures than that would be a dramatic improvement.

Hi Tom,

I think you're right. It will always draw energy to keep your battery warm. I assume they improved The battery management over your Active-E, but by how much remains a question!

 

[tommolog]

There are some new spy photo's of the i3 circulating around so I put them together on a blog post: The Electric BMW i3: BMW Slowly Undressing the i3
Here's one:

 

[Lloyd]

I saw it while I was in MT last November on a trip. I asked one of the drivers what it was. He said something about a new ford. I said 'gee it sure looks like an i3' He did an about face and smiled at me.

Notice the skinny tires and aero wheels. Should help with the Mpg-e!