BMW i

[Palpatine]

Are you talking about national averages ? I don't think the numbers are correct.

They were in an article and the source for the article was one of the government studies.

I think the difference in the numbers you cited was that the article used the wording "single trip".
Maybe it was referencing one way trips, not total miles per day.

98% of trips are less than 50 miles
99% of trips are less than 70 miles

Your graph is citing daily accrued total miles.

Both are relevant types of data to understand. If a one way trip to work is 50 miles, then your car is parked for 8-9 hours, it would be fully recharged for the trip home.
Both trips were 50 miles. Total daily accrued miles were 100. It makes sense.

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This is definitely not true for me. A regular day for me is close to 70 miles between charging opportunities, and 1 day a week I am at 90 miles. I am definitely not alone in my region.

So your one way "trip" is about 35 miles and 1 day per week it is about 45 miles?
I think that is how the study was looking at it, expecting opportunities for recharging during the day.

I am sure that doesn't work for everyone. The point was to calculate how much of the population would be fine with an EV that gets 100 miles of range.
If EV recharging opportunities are plentiful in parking lots and parking garages, then your car will likely be parked for several hours per day.

As long as the single trips are typically below 70 miles, and they are for an overwhelming amount of the population, then a 100 miles EV is practical.

With the Model S, this is all irrelevant. But for cars like the Leaf and BMW I3, it is important.

 

[fastcars]

Autoexpress had a rendering of the Megacity earlier but pulled it. Luckily someone else saved the pics :smile:

BMW i10 - Artist impressions give indication of BMW's future electric hatch.

I like it so far (if it is prototype or real will know soon) :biggrin:

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I've had some more time to think about the i3, and I think it will have a cult following of sorts precisely because of its odd styling and power train. The weirdness will strongly attract some buyers, but it will also repel others. Too polarizing, exactly opposite of Model S.

This is not a vehicle that will win mainstream adoption.

For some reason the i3 gives me a Honda Element vibe, even though it is much smaller and looks to me more like a CR-V.

 

[richkae]

I've had some more time to think about the i3, and I think it will have a cult following of sorts precisely because of its odd styling and power train. The weirdness will strongly attract some buyers, but it will also repel others. Too polarizing, exactly opposite of Model S.

This is not a vehicle that will win mainstream adoption.

For some reason the i3 gives me a Honda Element vibe, even though it is much smaller and looks to me more like a CR-V.

If they had made it look more like a 135i I would be really excited. The actual pictures I have seen so far have been disappointing.

If the Model X, Model S and i3 were all on the market last october when I got the S, I would have been very tempted to get a Model X for our family hauler, and a BMW i3 for my commuter/backup family car ( assuming they dont make it fugley ).

 

[gregincal]

If they had made it look more like a 135i I would be really excited. The actual pictures I have seen so far have been disappointing.

If the Model X, Model S and i3 were all on the market last october when I got the S, I would have been very tempted to get a Model X for our family hauler, and a BMW i3 for my commuter/backup family car ( assuming they dont make it fugley ).

Yeah, since BMW has such a strong "family resemblance" across their line, I really feel the only reason to make the i3 look so different is to avoid having it compete with their ICE cars. It just represents the schizophrenic attitude the traditional car makers have to electric cars. The car is bears more resemblance to a Smart than a BMW (I just saw the concept in person at the BMW museum in Munich). I like that they designed it from scratch rather than just converting an existing car, but why couldn't they still give it sporty styling (as well as at least an option for more range).

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

( assuming they dont make it fugley ).

It wouldn’t be the only thing that went terribly wrong at their design HQ lately.

…Allegedly.

Oh, well...

Photo credit: BMW?

:scared:

 

[stopcrazypp]

It wouldn’t be the only thing that went terribly wrong at their design HQ lately.

…Allegedly.

Oh, well...

View attachment 25158
Photo credit: BMW?

:scared:

Ewww... Looks like they screwed up the 1-series too. The shape of the 1-series looks better than the i3, but the front end of the i3 looks better than the new 1-series.

 

[EVNow]

Both are relevant types of data to understand. If a one way trip to work is 50 miles, then your car is parked for 8-9 hours, it would be fully recharged for the trip home.
Both trips were 50 miles. Total daily accrued miles were 100. It makes sense.

Trips are weird the way they are calculated. If you stop for a coffee on the way to work, it is considered as 2 trips.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I didn't realize how small the i3 is dimensionally. Looking at the specifications it has roughly the same width and height as a Honda Fit, but it is about 25cm/10in shorter.

Anyone know where the Rex system is installed and how much space it uses?

 

[tommolog]

I didn't realize how small the i3 is dimensionally. Looking at the specifications it has roughly the same width and height as a Honda Fit, but it is about 25cm/10in shorter.

Anyone know where the Rex system is installed and how much space it uses?

It goes to the right of the electric motor over the rear axle where you see the empty space:

 

[gregincal]

Yeah, remember that the Rex system is just a motorcycle engine, so it doesn't use much space.

 

[agentsmith1612]

BMW will use a motorcyle engine with 2 cylinders and 26 kW.

I don't know what motor it will be, but it can be a modified one from the BMW motorcycles like the G650.
The gasoline tank has a volume of 9L.

 

[tommolog]

Here's a picture of the 650cc Kymco engine the range extender will use. I recently did a blog post specifically on the range extender if anyone is interested: The Electric BMW i3: BMW i3 REx: A Hobbled Horse or a Galloping Thoroughbred?

 

[JRP3]

If the ICE generator is only putting out 35hp how can it not be a hobbled horse? Once the pack is depleted you can't draw more than 35hp of power, (actually less with losses in the generator), or you end up drawing the pack down further.

 

[fengshui]

The theory is that at some point as you deplete the battery, the REX comes on and assists. It only takes about 35HP to run a car at constant freeway speeds. As the battery gets below some amount depleted, the REX comes on and provides the 35HP needed for freeway cruising to extend your range. You still have the full 170HP for acceleration, but you're not depleting the now-valuable battery capacity to maintain existing speeds. As such, the REX will not give you an extra 90 miles of range if you're stopping and starting a lot, but it will for most use-cases.

 

[tommolog]

If the ICE generator is only putting out 35hp how can it not be a hobbled horse? Once the pack is depleted you can't draw more than 35hp of power, (actually less with losses in the generator), or you end up drawing the pack down further.

On flat ground cruising at 55-65mph the car is probably only pulling 10kW's from the battery. The REx can supply up to 26kW's. The problem occurs when you need to go up a long incline, or want to drive fast as the car can then need more than 26kW's to maintain the current level of driving. There will be a buffer for this so you shouldn't really notice unless you were to drive up a very long steep hill or wanted to drive 85 mph for 25 continuous minutes or so.

The range extender isn't designed to act like a Volt where you have basically the same performance and can drive it up Pikes Peak. Once you've depleted the AER and the REx comes on, it's meant to really get you to where you need to go without a to truck, but performance will be less than in all electric mode. It's not a 'limp mode' either though. You can basically drive normally, you just may need to go a little slower. With a ~90 mile AER, most people won't use it too much, but it will be good to have for the few times you need to drive further. I wouldn't set out on a 300 mile trip unless you planned to charge midway with it though, it's just not meant for that.

 

[JRP3]

You can basically drive normally, you just may need to go a little slower.

So slower than normal :wink: It's an interesting setup, I wonder how it will play. It doesn't provide the "endless" miles of a Volt type plug in hybrid or the ICE free driving of an EV.

 

[Rifleman]

It sounds like autoblog is reporting that the i3 is going to start at $34,500 in the US, with the REX being a $2,000 option. If this is true, it will definitely put a hurt on Volt sales. If it was out at that price last September when I leased my Volt, I likely would have gone with the i3 instead.

BMW i3 starts near $35,000; NA first deliveries January 2014 - Autoblog

 

[tommolog]

So slower than normal :wink: It's an interesting setup, I wonder how it will play. It doesn't provide the "endless" miles of a Volt type plug in hybrid or the ICE free driving of an EV.

The exact performance isn't known yet, but it's clear there will be some drop off in performance in REx mode. I suppose you would have full performance for the first 10-15 miles or so because there will be a buffer when the REx first turns on but if you were to drive aggressively for a while you would soon deplete the battery and the REx may not be able to keep up with your demand.

However, if you were to drive 45 -55 mph - lets say on secondary roads, you could probably continue to drive as long as you want to. It's not for people that want to frequently drive 150 -200 miles. However for those that need to drive 100- 150 miles a couple times a month it should work fine for them.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It'll be definitely be interesting to see how it operates and the market reception. It seems the Volt has been out long enough that people expect any "range extended" car to be able to be used for long road trips, so they might not be expecting what the i3 is offering. People on autoblog are describing the range extender as used for a "limp home" mode.