Yep. They went w/a T-shaped battery pack, just like the GM EV1.
The Plug-in Prius doesn't have such a interior room (nor weight) compromises but it has WAY less all-electric range (since it has way less battery capacity), besides other limitations.
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BMW i
- Thread starter dpeilow
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The Plug-in Prius doesn't have such a interior room (nor weight) compromises but it has WAY less all-electric range (since it has way less battery capacity), besides other limitations.
tommolog
Member
Now that it's been announced the production i3 will be revealed on July 29th there have been quite a few barely-covered test cars caught (or intentionally caught) driving on European roads. They even have what appears to be the production wheels now. Here's one of them:
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I must admit I'm curious as to what the actual production version will end up costing, and how it performs. This is no saviour for BMW or real threat to Tesla, but ti does represent a few things. The first being, BMW's attitude is changing enough to actually produce 30,000 of these things. That's no small feat and it gets their feet wet regarding a true EV. It may also require Tesla to set the bar that much higher for Gen III. After all, Gen III can't be 'slightly better' than the i3. The same as the Model S isn't just 'slightly better' than a 5 Series.
Fighting for customers that have brand loyalty to a marque like BMW with a product that is only marginally better will be very difficult - If the i3 does anything, It sets the bar higher for Gen III.
BMW has also quite a bit experience with electric vehicles (though in small quantities).
They had a the Mini E and the Active E, both limited release EVs. Owners (actually leasors) have been very, very happy with them in general.
BMW has been prepping the i3 for a very long time. I don't think it's a real threat to Tesla at the moment. But I wouldn't discount BMW altogether. They make some decent driving machines.
They had a the Mini E and the Active E, both limited release EVs. Owners (actually leasors) have been very, very happy with them in general.
BMW has been prepping the i3 for a very long time. I don't think it's a real threat to Tesla at the moment. But I wouldn't discount BMW altogether. They make some decent driving machines.
fengshui
Member
The front one is a fuel-cap for the range-extending generator. The rear is the Frankenplug.
Adm
Active Member
This picture looks photoshopped to me. I'd say it's leaked by the BMW marketing department.
This will be interesting. A friend of mine has a reservation in for the I3 because the Model S was out of his price range. So I will get some personal experience with the car eventually.
If we hit 2016 and Tesla has a similarly priced Gen III car ($35,000 to $40,000) with a 200 mile range, then obviously Tesla Gen III is going to win that battle. But BMW may also increase their range with whatever battery pack is available in 2016.
I think Tesla will still have the advantage with things like the Supercharger network for Gen III car owners. It solves the city to city long trip issue.
If BMW does not have a 120 kW DC recharging option for customers, nobody is going to want an BMW I3 even if they do increase the range to 200 miles to compete with Tesla.
I think a fully deployed Supercharger network in 2015 is the killer app that gives Tesla an advantage over every other EV car on the market. Until other auto companies announce their long trip solution, then their cars are not serious competitors for Tesla.
If we hit 2016 and Tesla has a similarly priced Gen III car ($35,000 to $40,000) with a 200 mile range, then obviously Tesla Gen III is going to win that battle. But BMW may also increase their range with whatever battery pack is available in 2016.
I think Tesla will still have the advantage with things like the Supercharger network for Gen III car owners. It solves the city to city long trip issue.
If BMW does not have a 120 kW DC recharging option for customers, nobody is going to want an BMW I3 even if they do increase the range to 200 miles to compete with Tesla.
I think a fully deployed Supercharger network in 2015 is the killer app that gives Tesla an advantage over every other EV car on the market. Until other auto companies announce their long trip solution, then their cars are not serious competitors for Tesla.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
BMW isn't taking reservations in the US, yet.
Or use REx on i3.
There are more CHAdeMO stations available now than planned superchargers by 2015 (esp. in the NW CHAdeMO wins handsdown).
Interesting. He told me that he is. Maybe it is a local BMW dealer reservation list or something like that.
Isn't CHAdeMO limited to a max power of about 50 kW? That really seems not practical for a cross country trip with a 200-300 mile range.
The Tesla Supercharger at 120 kW is barely enough to keep stops reasonable in time.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The CHAdeMO spec can theoretically go up to 100kW (500V, 200A). With common pack charging voltages (under 400V), that goes down to 80kW (400V*200A).
http://www.chademo.com/wp/technology/optimal/
However, the actual production CHAdeMO connectors are all rated at 125A (even the redesigned "next-gen" version), so CHAdeMO chargers will only support 62.5kW peak (500V*125A) even if you have a higher pack charging voltage. At 400V it's 50kW.
http://charge.yazaki-group.com/english/product/quick_outlet_neo.html
The i3 will use the Combo connector which also has a spec of 100kW (500V, 200A). There have been reports of a 90kW (450V*200A) charger in testing by GM and BMW, although it's still an open question if any public one will have that kind of power. Although, that does mean the connectors will likely be 200A at least. The only Combo chargers guaranteed right now are going to be dual connector units which will likely be only be 50kW units (to match with CHAdeMO).
http://insideevs.com/gm-and-bmw-joi...ting-on-dc-combo-fast-charge-stations-wvideo/
We will have 200 of those dual (Combo + CHAdeMO) units in California within the next couple of years as required by the NRG settlement. So the i3 doesn't have to worry in California at least.
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I would love to have a bunch of CHAdeMO chargers available also for Tesla cars. But I think Tesla is correct to do their own design for DC Superchargers.
Tesla's key advantage is that they are making it free for Model S owners.
That will be a powerful selling point compared to a BMW I3 (assuming I3 and Gen III are competitors in range and style in 2016).
CHAdeMO charging stations are not sponsor typically by the auto company, is that correct? So someone using a CHAdeMO DC charging station would have to pay?
In order to be competitive with Tesla Motors, I think other EV car manufacturers will need to offer an equivalent free DC charging network for long trips.
That added bonus really is a strong selling point for Tesla.
Tesla's key advantage is that they are making it free for Model S owners.
That will be a powerful selling point compared to a BMW I3 (assuming I3 and Gen III are competitors in range and style in 2016).
CHAdeMO charging stations are not sponsor typically by the auto company, is that correct? So someone using a CHAdeMO DC charging station would have to pay?
In order to be competitive with Tesla Motors, I think other EV car manufacturers will need to offer an equivalent free DC charging network for long trips.
That added bonus really is a strong selling point for Tesla.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Nissan is going to install CHAdeMO stations at dealers (sponsored by Nissan). But dealer chargers have their own problems (will always need permission from dealership, only available during business hours, and it's unclear if you can use it if you don't own a Nissan, or even if you bought your Nissan somewhere else).
Most non-dealer CHAdeMO stations will be part of a charging network. Most likely Ecotality/Blink at this point (because they got federal funds for them). Blink currently does not charge a fee for DC charging, but they have been saying they are making plans to do so. Currently they do charge $1/hour for level 2 charging.
The i3 is supposed to use the same motor as the ActiveE. I haven't followed the i3 closely as I honestly don't care. But, it shouldn't be a slouch in the acceleration department... well, least it should be significantly faster than the Leaf (disclaimer: I plan to lease a Leaf, if all goes well), from what I heard. See bottom of Testing Electric Vehicles in the Real World for ActiveE acceleration results. I believe the i3 will be significantly lighter than the ActiveE.
That said, BMW has sold a # of "low power" cars in the US for awhile... although not really now (at least not w/a BMW badge in the US). I remember when I had my 255 hp 02 Nissan Maxima and I looked at the specs for the 02 BMW 325i. It was way smaller than my Maxima, heavier than the Maxima, much more expensive, and had only 184 hp. IIRC, at one point, BMW was selling 3-series for awhile that could beaten by Nissan and Toyota V6 family sedans in a straight line.
Outside the US, you'd be amazed by how low output some of their cars are. See BMW 3 Series (E90) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's all relative though. The 325i with 0-60 in 7.1 seconds is still way faster than the Leaf (~10 seconds). And V6 family sedans are no slouches either.
The i3 was always announced with 170hp, with a slated curb weight of about 2800 lbs. Spark has 130 hp and 3000 lb curb weight, Leaf 107 hp and 3300 lb curb weight.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
This i3, like pretty much every EV ever created by mainstream ICE-makers, is not something they want to do and will do what's necessary to make succeed.
It's more of "Hey, so-and-so's doing something electric, we'd better do one too or else we won't look innovative".
Nothing about this vehicle (design, powertrain, range) is remotely special. They've been able to study Nissan doing this segment for three years, and the i3 is what they come up with?
Like when I watch reviews of the UI and performance in today's ICE cars and they're so far behind Telsa I have to shake my head. Only in this case, I have to say Tesla and Nissan.
It's more of "Hey, so-and-so's doing something electric, we'd better do one too or else we won't look innovative".
Nothing about this vehicle (design, powertrain, range) is remotely special. They've been able to study Nissan doing this segment for three years, and the i3 is what they come up with?
Like when I watch reviews of the UI and performance in today's ICE cars and they're so far behind Telsa I have to shake my head. Only in this case, I have to say Tesla and Nissan.
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