BMW i

[stopcrazypp]

This i3, like pretty much every EV ever created by mainstream ICE-makers, is not something they want to do and will do what's necessary to make succeed.

I don't agree on the i3.

You have to look at investments:

Back in 2010 they already invested €530 million into the i3 (€130 million on carbon fiber production, €400 million to update their factory to build it).
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/11/bmw-20101105.html
By the end of this year the total investment is €3 billion.
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20130513/ANE/130519972#axzz2YFQstiFn

Compliance EVs are also either contracted to third parties (Focus EV, RAV4 EV, B-Class ed) or built in a small batch (a couple thousand vehicles) by converting an existing vehicle (Fit EV, Smart ed, 500e, Spark EV, eGolf). You will not see billions invested in such EVs (probably about $100 million at most).

The i3, on the other hand, is build not only as an entirely new vehicle, but also on a completely new platform (even the Leaf uses a platform that was based on the B0 platform for the previous Versa, the iMIEV based on the gas i, Renault Zoe based on Renault-Nissan's B platform for the Mk IV Clio). Planned annual volumes will be in the 30k range, rather than hundreds or thousands like the compliance EVs.

This is not a compliance EV!

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I looked at the BMW i3 website and it says that the electric range is 80-100 miles, with an added 80 miles when using the optional range extender.

I don't see how this is any better than a Volt or a Leaf, other than the BMW marque. It doesn't raise the bar. Also, the design looks a bit like a squashed 3rd generation Honda CR-V, rather than a sporty BMW.

 

[Rifleman]

I don't see how this is any better than a Volt or a Leaf, other than the BMW marque.

In the pure EV variant of the i3, I will agree with you. The REX version is a completely different story, and will prove to be a serious competitor to the Volt. Most Volt owners (myself included) desperately want to drive more miles on electrons, but cannot afford the only EV that meets their range requirements (the Model S). The i3 REX will give them double the EV range of the Volt, while still having the overall range that they need on occasion. If the price actually is in the mid 40's, it will not even be that much more expensive than the Volt. If it was available when I leased my Volt, I definitely would have taken a serious look at it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't see how this is any better than a Volt or a Leaf, other than the BMW marque. It doesn't raise the bar. Also, the design looks a bit like a squashed 3rd generation Honda CR-V, rather than a sporty BMW.

I don't think it raises the bar either (for my own usage), but that is orthogonal to whether it's a serious effort.

 

[woof]

The ActiveE is plenty quick--in everyday driving it's a pleasure to pull ahead of most cars at a light, or to zip into an open highway slot. It's not scary quick like the Model S (switching between the two as I do can be...interesting). By assumption, with the same drive train as the ActiveE and with 1000 less pounds, the i3 should also be pretty darn quick. It does have less battery capacity than the ActiveE, so possibly that'll effect acceleration as well, but my guess is the power to weight ratio will make up for any difference and then some.

I am disappointed the i3 has less battery capacity from what the ActiveE had, with the expected range being about the same. I would much prefer an option for more EV range over a REx.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

In the pure EV variant of the i3, I will agree with you. The REX version is a completely different story, and will prove to be a serious competitor to the Volt. Most Volt owners (myself included) desperately want to drive more miles on electrons, but cannot afford the only EV that meets their range requirements (the Model S). The i3 REX will give them double the EV range of the Volt, while still having the overall range that they need on occasion. If the price actually is in the mid 40's, it will not even be that much more expensive than the Volt. If it was available when I leased my Volt, I definitely would have taken a serious look at it.

I don't think it raises the bar either (for my own usage), but that is orthogonal to whether it's a serious effort.

Both good points. The +80 mile Rex range seems too low to me though. It is almost more of a "security blanket" rather than a serious extender for highway travel.

For the record I do think the i3 is a serious effort given the investment in CFRP body and manufacturing volume. I just don't think it is quite the right design.

 

[EVNow]

Isn't CHAdeMO limited to a max power of about 50 kW? That really seems not practical for a cross country trip with a 200-300 mile range.
The Tesla Supercharger at 120 kW is barely enough to keep stops reasonable in time.

I see no reason they can't up the power. 50 kW is not a theoretical limitation.

 

[ggies07]

Although it doesn't raise the bar, it certainly allows for the demographic that is in between a LEAF and a Model S to get an EV. This demo might think they are too good for a LEAF, but with the BMW name, suits them just right. This still alllows for the forward adoption of EVs. Just my two cents....

 

[Palpatine]

It is definitely a real production car, not just a compliance car.
The production plant for the carbon fiber is here in the Pacific Northwest

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/...l-plant-in-grant-county-readies.html?page=all

A second production line at the BMW/SGL carbon fiber line in Moses Lake is nearing completion and is to start up in August.

The new production line will boost capacity to 3,000 tons a year, sufficient to supply the immediate need for BMW’s
new electric “i” vehicles, said Katharina Schraidt, a spokeswoman from SGL Automotive Carbon Fibers GmbH & Co. KG,
in Germany.

“Right now we’re focusing on finishing that, and making sure everything runs smooth for the BMW i cars,” she said.

The project, which includes a 110,308-square-foot process building and a 47,781-square-foot office building, will
cost $100 million on completion, Schraidt said. The facility now employs 80, which won’t change when the second l
ine is fully running.

Performance of the new BMW “i” series vehicles is partly based on their light weight, obtained by making the chassis
out of carbon fiber composites. BMW looked around the world to find a site where it could produce the carbon fiber
without burning fossil fuels, and settled on Washington’s Grant County, with its low electricity costs due to the dams
it operators on the Columbia River.

The project has been the most visible manifestation of a Washington state campaign to attract carbon fiber industry
to Washington, to complement the aerospace-related carbon fiber work already here.
Consumers will be able to buy the smaller BMW i3 at the end of the this year, a fully electric vehicle that can go
99 miles on a charge, Schraidt said.

They will be able to buy the larger i8 vehicles in early 2014.

The current building was designed for two fiber production lines, and expansion will be necessary if a third line is to be added, Schraidt said.
She added that the company has no current plans to add a third line, but that it has acquired sufficient land in Moses Lake to make it possible.

 

[brianman]

Although it doesn't raise the bar, it certainly allows for the demographic that is in between a LEAF and a Model S to get an EV. This demo might think they are too good for a LEAF, but with the BMW name, suits them just right. This still alllows for the forward adoption of EVs. Just my two cents....

Good point. People often pay too much when buying a brand. And they can satisfy and/or one-up both the green and luxury vehicle brand neighbors.

 

[Palpatine]

Although it doesn't raise the bar, it certainly allows for the demographic that is in between a LEAF and a Model S to get an EV. This demo might think they are too good for a LEAF, but with the BMW name, suits them just right. This still alllows for the forward adoption of EVs. Just my two cents....

True. And lets be honest, 80-100 miles of EV range is enough for 99% of driving. The Range Extender just adds flexibility for long trips.
I think the BMW I3 will be fine for that middle market competing with the Volt.

98% of trips are less than 50 miles
99% of trips are less than 70 miles

 

[EVNow]

I don't see how this is any better than a Volt or a Leaf, other than the BMW marque. It doesn't raise the bar. Also, the design looks a bit like a squashed 3rd generation Honda CR-V, rather than a sporty BMW.

The journalists who drove in the i3 had a fairly different opinion. I'd wait before pronouncing any judgments.

One area where they do raise the bar, anyway, is carbon fiber.

 

[tommolog]

This picture looks photoshopped to me. I'd say it's leaked by the BMW marketing department.

It may have been 'leaked' but I don't think it's photoshopped. There are a lot of pics from the same site. Here's the link to the site that posted them:

BMW i3 spied again most revealing pictures so far

 

[DaveT]

I looked at the BMW i3 website and it says that the electric range is 80-100 miles, with an added 80 miles when using the optional range extender.

I don't see how this is any better than a Volt or a Leaf, other than the BMW marque. It doesn't raise the bar. Also, the design looks a bit like a squashed 3rd generation Honda CR-V, rather than a sporty BMW.

The reason why some people are excited about the i3:
1. It's made from the ground up as an electric vehicle. It's completely new platform.
2. Battery is on floor pan (low center of gravity). Overview of BMW i3 LifeDrive tech shows how the skateboard has evolved
3. Rear-wheel drive and is said to perform/handle like a BMW.
4. Decent acceleration, 0-60mph in 7.2 seconds (other places say 7.9 sec, not sure) (note this will feel faster than a ICE 7.2 0-60mph car because of the instant torque from standstill)
5. Heavy use of carbon fiber to bring down car weight (this is very innovative at the car's cost level. To my knowledge, nothing like this has ever been done on a car under $50k).
6. BMW has had good history of EV cars with the Mini E and the ActiveE. They have quite a following in the electric car enthusiast market.

The question really isn't to compare it to the Volt or Leaf, but to ask how close does it compare with the 3 Series handling/performance. Sure, the 3 Series will offer faster acceleration (328i does 0-60mph in 5.6 seconds) but the i3 could feel close because of it's instant torque. If it approaches the 3 series handling, then it could be a fairly popular car even with the low range.

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The journalists who drove in the i3 had a fairly different opinion. I'd wait before pronouncing any judgments.

Do you have a link to a journalist review who's driven the i3? I haven't been able to find anything.

 

[EVNow]

98% of trips are less than 50 miles
99% of trips are less than 70 miles

Are you talking about national averages ? I don't think the numbers are correct.

 

[LagunaHJames]

I just can't see paying $40K for a vehicle with the same range as a Leaf. We love our Leaf (had it for just over 2 years now) but it could never be more than a second car for limited trips. I am in sales and have days where I need to cover 200 miles. We completed a market research survey for Infiniti about a year ago and they indicated a similar price for their all electric version. My comment at the end was why would I pay Infiniti prices for Leaf range. Same comment here. The range extender (like the Volt) to me is not really an electric car. I am glad it is available for all the nervous nellies who can't get over their "range anxiety" since it is at least one step removed from an ICE but ZEV is the future. My Model S is the most I have ever paid for a car but worth every penny.

 

[JRP3]

At this point they have to be doing the "camouflage" as a joke. The only thing they are "hiding" is that horrible dent in the rear door below the window, and you can still see it's there, unfortunately. The car looks better with the straight camo line.

 

[EVNow]

Do you have a link to a journalist review who's driven the i3? I haven't been able to find anything.

It wasn't a test drive by journalists, rather they were driven around on a snow test ride course.

First rides in BMW i8 hybrid sportscar and all-electric i3 | Autocar

"New i3 retains BMW's trademark dynamics"

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I am glad it is available for all the nervous nellies who can't get over their "range anxiety" since it is at least one step removed from an ICE but ZEV is the future.

The i3 w/ REx is like Leaf & Volt combined. EV range of Leaf with extension like Volt, but limited. If we get it, I expect to use the REx for day trips that would be time consuming or impractical in the Leaf.

 

[Rifleman]

98% of trips are less than 50 miles
99% of trips are less than 70 miles

This is definitely not true for me. A regular day for me is close to 70 miles between charging opportunities, and 1 day a week I am at 90 miles. I am definitely not alone in my region.

For someone like me, the only EV on the market with the range to meet my needs is the Model S. Since I cant afford a Model S, I would be very interested in something with enough range to meet my daily commute, with a range extender to meet the 90+ days, assuming that the price point is something I could swing. 45k pre tax credit is within reach for me, especially since i would be able to leverage the fuel saving and apply them to the car.

Right now, the best target market for EV adoption is the person with a long daily commute. For them, gas prices are a major concern, and fuel is a major part of their budget. If someone only has a 4 mile each way commute, the EV argument must be made on its green merits, or the more enjoyable driving experience that EV's offer, as their fuel consumption is really not going to be a concern.

 

[EVNow]

Here is the actual breakup.

75% of Daily accrued miles are less than 50 miles
86% of Daily accrued miles are less than 75 miles

ps : Daily accrued miles is more relevant for EVs than trips.