Brand spanking new model 3 LR AWD first full charge (460/499 km) range

[AlanSubie4Life]

Just to add another wrinkle to all this ... every time I see “true” pack size estimates for the SR+ and LR, I see if they are in a 31:46 ratio and they never seem to be. I would expect them to be though, if there are 46 cells per brick in the LR models and 31 in the SR+ bricks.

With the numbers we just discussed (240 * 219) and (310 * 245) I can’t get them to fit this ratio, even with some additional buffer ... I actually have to *subtract* ~4 kWh from each to get a 31:46 ratio.

If we assume one number is correct, maybe it fits and there’s just some fudge factors going on.

(310 * 245) = 75.95 kWh * (31/46) = 51.18 kWh, using 219 Wh/mi implies 234 miles rated range, not 240 (unlikely?)

(240 * 219) = 52.56 kWh * (46/31) = 77.99 kWh, using 245 Wh/mi implies 318 miles rated range ... possible?

They may well accept less (or more) reserve in one pack vs. the other. (By reserve I mean margin to completely dead, irrecoverable, not the reserve we typically think of.) And there may be more margin to “true” 100% in one pack vs the other. I am sure they have some flex on this...

The EPA numbers are 78kWh and 55kWh (less sure about the 55kWh - can look it up...) if I recall. That would suggest that the SR+ pack is being pushed a little more. It is a fairly large stretch (more like a 33/46 ratio) but it seems conceivable.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

On a related note. I dropped the car to 14% and charged it back to 80% and now it shows I have 370km range (229mi) while it should have be "close to" 399km (247mi). This is consistent with when I full charged the car and reported 460km (285mi) is around 8% of range that is completely missing from the car. This 30km or 18mi is missing. That's pretty huge for a car that is brand new with than 900km odometer

Yeah that seems pretty awful. Maybe they forgot to connect all your fusible links? You are not still in your 7-day return period are you (seems unlikely)? (If so, I would return it, if I were you. That being said, a battery replacement is likely in the cards and not that big a deal if it has to happen - less of an issue than paint problems I would say...but not great.)

Model 3 battery bond wire fuseable link size

However, if you can’t return, I would suggest you wait for the next software update and see what happens. There are definitely some weird things going on with 2019.24 (I lost 10 rated miles overnight). If it is still a problem after that, I would contact Tesla and have them diagnose it remotely at that point. You are way outside what we typically see. Just don’t let them give you any nonsense about it being dependent on driving habits.

What version are you on?

 

[axar]

Not in the 7 day return, i'm on 2019.28.2. I'll contact them and see what they say.

 

[axar]

Just to add more info this. A charge from 6% (27 km or 16 miles) only added 65.1 kWh energy on a pack that should be 74.5 kWh.

So far drive close to 2000kn or 1200 miles. Energy used is around what's being added.

I hope these numbers start to add up soon, so far all signs point to a bad pack. I contacted Tesla and they gave me standard keep driving it will balance eventually response and claim no issue with battery.

No. This meter (and the trip meter) ONLY counts energy use when not in Park.



Sentry consumes about 200W. So 16 hours would be about 3.2kWh (14 rated miles, 23rated km). Which would NOT show up on the meter in the car.



Based on what you first described it sounds like there may be some issues with your battery, but it is definitely TBD - see people's comments above. A picture showing % and rated miles remaining would help dispel confusion here.





A couple comments:

1) Actual good battery kWh capacity is a true 78kWh based on all available information. (EPA submissions, running the battery until it is dead)
2) The meter in the car does not appear to measure "true" kWh. It seems to consistently read about 5% low. Really, it's just a meter, so it can read just about anything it wants; it doesn't matter what the units are. It is pretty consistent - which DOES matter for making it useful.
3) The maximum amount the meter could measure "Since Last Charge" is about 71.3 "kWh" (remember they aren't real kWh). This is for a full 310 to 0 rated miles discharge with no time spent in Park. AND on a battery that fully charges to 310 rated miles... (also assumes no net elevation loss - that would allow you to get higher numbers here since it's like an additional battery). So you see 71.3 "kWh" on the meter, when you consume about 75-76 true kWh (there is probably some reserve energy below 0 miles but don't count on it). I should mention that I've never proven this is the maximum, with an actual full discharge, but all trips I've taken have produced results consistent with this assertion.
4) YOUR battery seems to have LESS energy than the 71.3 "kWh" available. We "know" this because you stated your 100% charge was 286 rated miles (460 rated kilometers) (if we understood you correctly). That would mean your battery has 66 "kWh" available at a full charge. So that's the max YOU would ever see on the "since last charge" meter - if you did nothing but drive until 0 miles.

This situation MAY resolve itself, but it is cause for concern - but you need to stick with it for a little longer to see whether the issue resolves itself.

As mentioned above, I would second the recommendation for you to keep the display set to "rated miles/km" not %, for now, until you understand what is going on.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

A charge from 6% (27 km or 16 miles) only added 65.1 kWh energy on a pack that should be 74.5 kWh.

How did you measure this? I assume an app; which one?

 

[axar]

How did you measure this? I assume an app; which one?

TeslaFi.

 

[darth_vad3r]

TeslaFi.

So 65.1 kWh added for ... 94%? (6% to 100% charge, or go some other SoC?)

65.1 / .94 yields an estimated 69.3 kWh of energy ‘addable’ above dashboard zero.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

TeslaFi.

Ok. For charge intervals TeslaFi does ok but definitely ignore what it says for how much energy you use...

So this extrapolates to 69.3kWh for a full charge.

This would suggest you have:

69.3/76 *310rmi = 283 rated miles for 100%?

Is that correct? 456km? Just trying to crosscheck the numbers to be sure we understand... (You said 460km earlier so it pretty much checks out.)

Might be off a little due to TeslaFi inaccuracy.

Anyway maybe it is software. Some people have really been clobbered lately but it is very inconsistent. No one knows what is going on. Yours has always been this way of course...but you bought after the range annihilation.

I would be pretty upset with a brand new car with those results though.

 

[axar]

So 65.1 kWh added for ... 94%? (6% to 100% charge, or go some other SoC?)

65.1 / .94 yields an estimated 69.3 kWh of energy ‘addable’ above dashboard zero.

6% to 100% added 65.1kWh added (68kWh used from charger), rated added 428km (265mi) - car was reporting 6% or ~27km (16mi) before starting to charge. Which is inline with ~458km(284mi) that was final reported in car at 100%.

Driving about 26km(16mi) to work which used 28km rated which now that car is reporting 93% at 426km (264mi).

The consumption is accurate with driving. Consumption across the entire battery range is accurate with driving and general drain; the kWh added and removed is accurate with driving; however there is about ~40km (25mi) appears to have not existed in the car.

The numbers always add up except for the fact that the total capacity is less than expected. ~68kWh actual vs 74.5kWh expected.

I attached the image

Want to point out that this was obviously 2nd 100% charge, first time wasn't using TeslaFi. This time to was recharged from low SoC ad recommended by service center tech, bring it down to 8% let it sit for 3-4hrs then charge up and let it sit for 3-4hrs. And was very keen on making sure I waited 3-4hrs which I did. As exactly mentioned except I charges it to 100% instead of 90%. I had already tried something similar to 80, 90% before without success.

 

[axar]

Ok. For charge intervals TeslaFi does ok but definitely ignore what it says for how much energy you use...

So this extrapolates to 69.3kWh for a full charge.

This would suggest you have:

69.3/76 *310rmi = 283 rated miles for 100%?

Is that correct? 456km? Just trying to crosscheck the numbers to be sure we understand... (You said 460km earlier so it pretty much checks out.)

Might be off a little due to TeslaFi inaccuracy.

Anyway maybe it is software. Some people have really been clobbered lately but it is very inconsistent. No one knows what is going on. Yours has always been this way of course...but you bought after the range annihilation.

I would be pretty upset with a brand new car with those results though.

Correct. Only 2 options will make sense here for this to be on a new car.

1) bad cells
2) CAC needs reset ?

I think I could be bad cells or that fuseable links thingi.. Its pretty accurately wrong.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Correct. Only 2 options will make sense here for this to be on a new car.

1) bad cells
2) CAC needs reset ?

I think I could be bad cells or that fuseable links thingi.. Its pretty accurately wrong.

They could also be limiting the full charge level for batteries based on some detected characteristic, for safety (or as a precaution). No one knows.

Personally I think at this point, I would wait patiently for a couple months, and keep an eye on it and hope software restores it.

Kind of a waste to worry about it immediately unless you need the full range. Annoying, of course...but if there is something seriously wrong, it will get worse, not better.

If it gets bad enough, eventually engineering/diagnostics will see it and maybe address it.

74.5kWh expected.

It’s 76kWh expected (which means about 78kWh total due to reserve).

 

[darth_vad3r]

This time to was recharged from low SoC ad recommended by service center tech, bring it down to 8% let it sit for 3-4hrs then charge up and let it sit for 3-4hrs. And was very keen on making sure I waited 3-4hrs which I did. As exactly mentioned except I charges it to 100% instead of 90%. I had already tried something similar to 80, 90% before without success.

Wait the tech told you to wait 3-4 hours at 90% and you did 100% instead? Hmm. They might have wanted you to sit plugged in at 90% to let the BMS do its little dance.

 

[axar]

I had done 90% before. Made no difference.

Wait the tech told you to wait 3-4 hours at 90% and you did 100% instead? Hmm. They might have wanted you to sit plugged in at 90% to let the BMS do its little dance.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I had done 90% before. Made no difference.

Did the tech tell you to charge to 90%, then leave it plugged in for 3-4 hours at 90%? It’s possible this puts the BMS calibrator to work a bit more than usual.

In calibration cases (yours may be a pack defect) you might have to charge to 90% on an ongoing basis for a few weeks before it recalibrates.

 

[axar]

He just said discharge to single digit and leave it for 3-4 hours then charge it to 90% and leave it for 3-4 hours there. As in he said don't drive it or anything. Not sure he mentioned plugged in but I understood to not drive anyway I'll try leaving plugged in. At 90% after bringing it up from low SoC. I did have the car plugged in at night even after 100% which was 3-4 hours after .

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

He just said discharge to single digit and leave it for 3-4 hours then charge it to 90% and leave it for 3-4 hours there. As in he said don't drive it or anything. Not sure he mentioned plugged in but I understood to not drive anyway I'll try leaving plugged in. At 90% after bringing it up from low SoC. I did have the car plugged in at night even after 100% which was 3-4 hours after .

Sorry if this was already covered and I forgot - I briefly skimmed but didn't see (EDIT: I am very bad at skimming apparently) . What software version are you on? EDIT: Never mind - 2019.28.2

I think most likely you are wasting your time. But who knows. If it is easy, I guess you can try bringing it kind of low again, then high to 90%. I doubt it will change anything.

I'd suggest enabling advanced updates and making sure to connect the car to WiFi, check whether software update is downloading, etc. The more recent software isn't a solution or anything (there is no evidence of that anyway), but it could change your results - and that would be a clue is it just software.

You should really be on 2019.28.3.1 or something....I saw my range apparently recover concurrent with getting that instead of 24.4...but I also changed my wheels (not that I think that should have any effect), so I can't be SURE it was a change due to software.

 

[FatLam]

He just said discharge to single digit and leave it for 3-4 hours then charge it to 90% and leave it for 3-4 hours there. As in he said don't drive it or anything. Not sure he mentioned plugged in but I understood to not drive anyway I'll try leaving plugged in. At 90% after bringing it up from low SoC. I did have the car plugged in at night even after 100% which was 3-4 hours after .

Any update ? I think I got the same situation as your car after HW3 upgrade ? 100% dropped to ~460km before was 485km ! Did you fix the issue ? If yes what was the problem ?

 

[axar]

Yours might be a calibration issue. Mine was reporting 460 since delivery which is most certainly a bad battery and has ad been proven by CAC test. However they refused to address the issue claiming 70% degredation warranty.

After 11,000 km my battery is still reporting 450/500 about 480/516 according new EPA rating. Long story short if you have bad or Incorrect battery km reading then return the car.

They should be delivered calibrated or the calibration shouldn't be 40km off .

 

[JBT66]

What OS? 2019.35.x?
You need to be on one for this year to show the additional miles.