New owner Model 3 LR MiC

[Bouba]

Hi everyone, I’ve just taken delivery of my Model 3 LR MiC in France. I’m an ex pat, so I thought I’d be more comfortable discussing it with you lot. Also, I’ve read on this forum that many believe that customers are treated better on the Continent. Well, that’s not true.
I won’t bore you with the complete saga, just the outline and my questions...
I wanted the LR because of the 614 km WLTP. But when I opted to get earlier (made in China) delivery I was told (very reluctantly, and only after pulling teeth) that it had a range of only 580 km.
I was angry, but the sales staff insisted that it was the new LFP battery and can be charged to 100%. I didn’t believe them because there is nothing on the internet about LFP for the Long Range. But they insisted.
Then they sent me the log book (carte grise) and I used the VIN decoder (thanks forum). I called up Tesla and they said that it’s not an official Tesla decoder therefore it’s wrong. I forgot to mention to them that the weight hadn’t changed (the LFP is heavier).
Anyhow I was prepared to accept that salesmen will say anything. And I was ready to reject the car.
At the Tesla pick up center (which is separate from the sales office). I ask the two technicians I was dealing with and they both insisted that ALL batteries from Shanghai are LFP and I can safely charge to 100%. But there is nothing in writing as Tesla doesn’t let you choose batteries.
So I accepted delivery. Since then I have fully charges it twice but both times it will only go to 541 km. Very very disappointed !
I checked with the in car owners manual and it said that the way to tell that it has LFP is to go to the charging screen. If the options are in percentages then it’s LFP. If it’s Daily and Trip then it’s not.
Mine is Daily and Trip!
I searched for a label in the fenderwell with an endoscope but couldn’t find it.
So, can you all confirm that I have been done up like a kipper?
Thanks for anyone taking the time to read this

 

[Tam]

...new LFP battery and can be charged to 100%...

You can trust Elon Musk:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1431040308943364097

...I checked with the in car owners manual and it said that the way to tell that it has LFP is to go to the charging screen. If the options are in percentages then it’s LFP. If it’s Daily and Trip then it’s not. Mine is Daily and Trip!...

That's what I understand too. My Lithium Nickel would have the notation Daily/Trip on its charging graphic screen:

"DAILY Set any level for your daily driving needs.
TRIP Useful for a roadtrip. Charging to this level will take longer."

LFP is lacking such notations. No "Daily/Trip" notations.

By the way, I am not sure what you are unhappy about.

 

[Bouba]

You can trust Elon Musk:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1431040308943364097

That's what I understand too. My Lithium Nickel would have the notation Daily/Trip on its charging graphic screen:

"DAILY Set any level for your daily driving needs.
TRIP Useful for a roadtrip. Charging to this level will take longer."



View attachment 713272


LFP is lacking such notations. No "Daily/Trip" notations.

By the way, I am not sure what you are unhappy about.

Hi Tam, I am unhappy that the 614 km car that I went into the showroom to buy turned into a 580 km car that can only charge to 541 km. I feel that long range should mean long range.
When I go to sell my car, it will be the newest car with the oldest battery and will have to compete with the SR++ instead of other LRs and it’s going to cost me a fortune in the end. Plus I hate getting lied to

 

[Bouba]

Can I add (while I’m still in a lather with Tesla) that do I follow the advice of all the Tesla staff and charge it 100% or do I assume that it will wreck my battery ?

 

[Tam]

...I hate getting lied to...

I am with you on this issue. You are a consumer so the law protects you from getting worse than what is legally listed on your sales receipt.

Tesla is a high-tech company so it can easily change whatever is listed on the receipt to reflect what it sells such as "LFP", "541 km"...

Since there's a lack of official or legal descriptions of "LFP" and "541km" in your purchase, Tesla needs to remedy the situation.

China has been very strong in supporting its Tesla customers. Do you have any governmental consumer agency where you live?

 

[Bouba]

I am with you on this issue. You are a consumer so the law protects you from getting worse than what is legally listed on your sales receipt.

Tesla is a high-tech company so it can easily change whatever is listed on the receipt to reflect what it sells such as "LFP", "541 km"...

Since there's a lack of official or legal descriptions of "LFP" and "541km" in your purchase, Tesla needs to remedy the situation.

China has been very strong in supporting its Tesla customers. Do you have any governmental consumer agency where you live?

Consumerism is France barely exists in the best of times. There are not a lot of Tesla promises actually written down so it would be me against the richest man in the world. To be honest, I was prepared to make a stand when I went to pick up the car, but I was surprised at the scale of the operation. People were picking up their new Teslas every few minutes. And French sales staff are tricky enough to deal with when you are their only customer, never mind when there’s a waiting list.
But, I think I still have a couple of days left to return the vehicle by law. So I was hoping for some ammunition from this forum

 

[Tam]

...So I was hoping for some ammunition from this forum

Time to go to the press!

 

[Bouba]

Time to go to the press!

No no, we want a quiet life. My wife doesn’t even want me to complain......

 

[Tam]

No no, we want a quiet life. My wife doesn’t even want me to complain......

I would listen to your wife because that's what is most important!

 

[Bouba]

I would listen to your wife because that's what is most important!

Interestingly, that’s what she says

 

[GeoG]

No no, we want a quiet life. My wife doesn’t even want me to complain......

When did my wife go to France.

 

[EV Promoter]

I wanted the LR because of the 614 km WLTP. But when I opted to get earlier (made in China) delivery I was told (very reluctantly, and only after pulling teeth) that it had a range of only 580 km.
I was angry, but the sales staff insisted that it was the new LFP battery and can be charged to 100%. I didn’t believe them because there is nothing on the internet about LFP for the Long Range. But they insisted.

Hi Bouba,

In the thread of the M3 model 2021 you'll find your answers. But also in some french forum.

What you have is an LG Chem NMC811 cylindrical, made in Nanjing (China) for the first time since june 2020 for the MIC LR and, from nov. 2020 for some batch of M3 2021 made in Fremont but with the battery shipped from China, exclusively made for EU but not US, cause Tesla did'nt had at the time (i don't know now) enough Panasonic.

It was exactly in nov-dec. 2020 that Tesla started to snake in EU those M3 made in Fremont with the same LG Chem created for the MIC LR, with no notice whatsoever to the customers.
We called it "The lottery", some was lucky enough to get a 2021 with Panasonic, others, me included, unlucky enough to get the LG Chem.

You can double check in your papers, looking for the homologation code E5D (LG Chem) or E3D (Panasonic).
On the threads here on TMC you can also find where to look under the car to take a shot of the battery label (LG Chem made in China)
The LG Chem have 580 WLTP and about 540 km on the screen at the best. And this is the battery you have.

Why we were unlucky to have those LG? For several reason.

- First they charge at about half of the speed of the Panasonic, measured both in China and by Bjorn Nyland. (see graph, Mc Hammer is Nyland's M3 LR 2019)
- Second, they have some few kWh less of capacity relative to the old 79 kWh Panasonic, less than about 75 kWh and some less range. (see TMC thread)

- Third, they were untested, because for the first time made in cylindrical form by LG Chem, and with the most dangerous chemestry for fire, the NMC811.
- Moreover, all the LG Chem that went on fire on Hyundai Kona and Chevy Bolt and Renaut Zoe and ID3 and.... so on... were exactly NMC.

Tesla was extremely dishonest in tricking the customers this way, and when the story came out on German & french forums i could'nt slam the car on their face, too late.
But was enough to own the car for 4 and half months, with 1,5 months passed at the service for having no repairs to the car's problems, to convince me to get rid of it for good.
So problem solved and accrued direct knowledge on Tesla to better evaluate my substantial stock investement in it.

 

[Bouba]

Hi Bouba,

In the thread of the M3 model 2021 you'll find your answers. But also in some french forum.

What you have is an LG Chem NMC811 cylindrical, made in Nanjing (China) for the first time since june 2020 for the MIC LR and, from nov. 2020 for some batch of M3 2021 made in Fremont but with the battery shipped from China, exclusively made for EU but not US, cause Tesla did'nt had at the time (i don't know now) enough Panasonic.

It was exactly in nov-dec. 2020 that Tesla started to snake in EU those M3 made in Fremont with the same LG Chem created for the MIC LR, with no notice whatsoever to the customers.
We called it "The lottery", some was lucky enough to get a 2021 with Panasonic, others, me included, unlucky enough to get the LG Chem.

You can double check in your papers, looking for the homologation code E5D (LG Chem) or E3D (Panasonic).
On the threads here on TMC you can also find where to look under the car to take a shot of the battery label (LG Chem made in China)
The LG Chem have 580 WLTP and about 540 km on the screen at the best. And this is the battery you have.

Why we were unlucky to have those LG? For several reason.

- First they charge at about half of the speed of the Panasonic, measured both in China and by Bjorn Nyland. (see graph, Mc Hammer is Nyland's M3 LR 2019)
- Second, they have some few kWh less of capacity relative to the old 79 kWh Panasonic, less than about 75 kWh and some less range. (see TMC thread)View attachment 744150
- Third, they were untested, because for the first time made in cylindrical form by LG Chem, and with the most dangerous chemestry for fire, the NMC811.
- Moreover, all the LG Chem that went on fire on Hyundai Kona and Chevy Bolt and Renaut Zoe and ID3 and.... so on... were exactly NMC.

Tesla was extremely dishonest in tricking the customers this way, and when the story came out on German & french forums i could'nt slam the car on their face, too late.
But was enough to own the car for 4 and half months, with 1,5 months passed at the service for having no repairs to the car's problems, to convince me to get rid of it for good.
So problem solved and accrued direct knowledge on Tesla to better evaluate my substantial stock investement in it.

Yes, what was so upsetting to me was that 600km range was the ‘magical’ figure that I was waiting for before I decided to buy a Tesla. And when I discovered it was the smaller battery, the local French staff lied at every turn (although it is possible that they were also lied to, but if I can research it so can they, they spend all day on their smartphones looking at every subject except the one that gives them their livelihood).
But there are waiting lists and Government subsidies that would expire. Plus the car was three thousand cheaper than my original quote (which on a pro rata basis is how much the missing range was worth). So I took the deal.
Although I love the car, the buying experience was the most stressful I’ve ever had

 

[EV Promoter]

So Bouba, forget the 100% charge that they told you for the LFP, you have a sensitive chemestry and not at all an LFP.

The very reason why the lowered so much the charging curve, and in wintertime was really a *sugar*, cause with the battery at 15° the SC was at something like 35 kW at 50% SOC, is exactly for safety.

And also for the LFP, it is'nt that is safe or sane to charge often to 100%, it was because, due to the typical voltage of the LFP cell, the BMS at the beginning was'nt good enough to predict the charge and needed a reset often, topping at 100%. Hope they improved that.

 

[Bouba]

So Bouba, forget the 100% charge that they told you for the LFP, you have a sensitive chemestry and not at all an LFP.

The very reason why the lowered so much the charging curve, and in wintertime was really a *sugar*, cause with the battery at 15° the SC was at something like 35 kW at 50% SOC, is exactly for safety.

And also for the LFP, it is'nt that is safe or sane to charge often to 100%, it was because, due to the typical voltage of the LFP cell, the BMS at the beginning was'nt good enough to predict the charge and needed a reset often, topping at 100%. Hope they improved that.

Did you lose any money when you sold your car?

 

[Gasaraki]

Hi everyone, I’ve just taken delivery of my Model 3 LR MiC in France. I’m an ex pat, so I thought I’d be more comfortable discussing it with you lot. Also, I’ve read on this forum that many believe that customers are treated better on the Continent. Well, that’s not true.
I won’t bore you with the complete saga, just the outline and my questions...
I wanted the LR because of the 614 km WLTP. But when I opted to get earlier (made in China) delivery I was told (very reluctantly, and only after pulling teeth) that it had a range of only 580 km.
I was angry, but the sales staff insisted that it was the new LFP battery and can be charged to 100%. I didn’t believe them because there is nothing on the internet about LFP for the Long Range. But they insisted.
Then they sent me the log book (carte grise) and I used the VIN decoder (thanks forum). I called up Tesla and they said that it’s not an official Tesla decoder therefore it’s wrong. I forgot to mention to them that the weight hadn’t changed (the LFP is heavier).
Anyhow I was prepared to accept that salesmen will say anything. And I was ready to reject the car.
At the Tesla pick up center (which is separate from the sales office). I ask the two technicians I was dealing with and they both insisted that ALL batteries from Shanghai are LFP and I can safely charge to 100%. But there is nothing in writing as Tesla doesn’t let you choose batteries.
So I accepted delivery. Since then I have fully charges it twice but both times it will only go to 541 km. Very very disappointed !
I checked with the in car owners manual and it said that the way to tell that it has LFP is to go to the charging screen. If the options are in percentages then it’s LFP. If it’s Daily and Trip then it’s not.
Mine is Daily and Trip!
I searched for a label in the fenderwell with an endoscope but couldn’t find it.
So, can you all confirm that I have been done up like a kipper?
Thanks for anyone taking the time to read this

With LFP you must charge it to 100% often to have accurate BMS reading. Often is at least once a week. You can actually charge it to 100% everyday if you want.

 

[Bouba]

With LFP you must charge it to 100% often to have accurate BMS reading. Often is at least once a week. You can actually charge it to 100% everyday if you want.

If I had believed the four members of Tesla’s staff about it being an LFP, I would probably have cooked my LG battery by now.
For people like us, who research these things, go on forums etc, it’s not a problem. We will ferret out the truth. But for unsuspecting members of the public, I think it’s quite shameful that Tesla staff are willing to destroy extremely expensive customer’s cars merely because they can’t be bothered to check facts

 

[GeoG]

If I had believed the four members of Tesla’s staff about it being an LFP, I would probably have cooked my LG battery by now.
For people like us, who research these things, go on forums etc, it’s not a problem. We will ferret out the truth. But for unsuspecting members of the public, I think it’s quite shameful that Tesla staff are willing to destroy extremely expensive customer’s cars merely because they can’t be bothered to check facts

You can never know or trust what the tesla techs tells you. Here is a chat session I had with one of the Tesla reps(Landy).
According to him even if its an LFP we are not supposed to charge to 100%
Who do you believe and what do you do?

2021 M3 SR+ MSM

Landy
11:55 AM
You're welcome. I don't know if this is what you are asking .Pack Energy 50_KWH. If not can I have some details.
Geo
11:55 AM
I was wanting to know if it was an NCA or LFP battery
Geo
11:56 AM
I was told LFP's could be charged to 100% everyday
Geo
11:56 AM
battery*
Landy
11:59 AM
You have the LFP
Landy
11:59 AM
Sorry for the delay.
Landy
12:00 PM
And would not advise to charge the vehicle to 100% everyday.

 

[Steve446]

Yes, what was so upsetting to me was that 600km range was the ‘magical’ figure that I was waiting for before I decided to buy a Tesla. And when I discovered it was the smaller battery, the local French staff lied at every turn (although it is possible that they were also lied to, but if I can research it so can they, they spend all day on their smartphones looking at every subject except the one that gives them their livelihood).
But there are waiting lists and Government subsidies that would expire. Plus the car was three thousand cheaper than my original quote (which on a pro rata basis is how much the missing range was worth). So I took the deal.
Although I love the car, the buying experience was the most stressful I’ve ever had

Hi Bouba, based on the comments here it looks like you had an enviable time on pick-up. We also exchanged on the battery forum having similar experiences (my M3 LR also had a discount for the 74.5 kWh pack in Sept 21). Did you end up keeping the car? How is your range?

 

[Ecoli]

2022.4.5.16 model 3 release notes for LFP battery

The range display in your vehicle is undergoing calibration. Until calibrated,
displayed range may under or overestimate compared to distance driven.
To improve accuracy, charge to 100% and wait until the charge port LED
turns solid green, indicating a completed charging session.
It is recommended for this configuration of vehicle to keep your charge
limit set to 100%, even for daily use, and that you also fully charge to 100% at least once per week.

For more information on battery care and tips please refer to the Owner's Manual.