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Buyer beware. Buying a CPO Tesla feels like a SCAM.
- Thread starter ToothSlayer
- Start date
Unfortunately since then, they have completely changed the CPO program to sell cars with thousands of dollars of body panel damage and in some cases trashed interior. Hopefully they will change it back to what it was when you bought it so all future customers can be just as happy as you are...
At the moment they have no meaningful standards for cars they sell and could end up with a car in awful shape and the only recourse is to reject delivery and try all over again.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
People forget that they are buying a used car. Used cars have wear and tear and damage. Some people seem to expect to get a "new" completely refurbished car in perfect condition and that's just not going to happen.Unfortunately since then, they have completely changed the CPO program to sell cars with thousands of dollars of body panel damage and in some cases trashed interior. Hopefully they will change it back to what it was when you bought it so all future customers can be just as happy as you are...
At the moment they have no meaningful standards for cars they sell and could end up with a car in awful shape and the only recourse is to reject delivery and try all over again.
When you buy a used car, you always need to inspect it carefully.
I think people assume buying a car from Tesla means they're getting a Certified Pre-owned vehicle (as the program used to be). They might be getting the same mechanical warranty as a traditional CPO, but the wear and tear on some of their pre-owned cars wouldn't qualify for the "CPO" label from traditional dealerships.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
CPO cars (from all different car companies) undergo a mechanical inspection to repair/replace parts which are worn out of tolerance. They also come with a limited warranty. BMW, for instance, gives their CPO cars an extended warranty but makes no representations about cosmetic wear and tear.
Tesla has a "70 point inspection". This is primarily for mechanical issues. It also has a 2 year/100,000 mile or 4 year/50,000 warranty.
Most of the complaints I have seen about CPO cars concern cosmetic issues. It's not a new car. It will have wear and tear. If you want a new car, buy a new car. The CPO is intended to give you peace of mind about mechanical problems with an extended warranty.
The statements you have made are factually not true* and based on those statements I have to surmise that you have never bought a premium CPO car before.
Go to a Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, or BMW dealer and look at their CPO cars. You will find that every single one of them has not only passed a mechanical test but a stringent refurbishing process both inside and out with any damage or excess wear and tear components/surfaces repaired or fixed.
In fact, if you inquire about a premium CPO car from a dealer, they will send you a list of everything they fixed or replaced as a part of the CPO process along with a detailed service history of the car. They also show photos of the car and the photos simply document that the cars are in fact in immaculate condition, as they should be. You can verify this by going to a dealer Web site to look at photos of CPO cars. You won't see any photos of damaged cars. Here's a list of Mercedes CPO vehicles for sale. Good luck finding a single car with interior or exterior damage out of the hundreds listed in their inventory.
Certified Pre-Owned Mercedes Inventory Search | Mercedes-Benz
All car dealers refurbish premium cars offered for sale and make a very decent profit selling those cars -- sometimes making more profit selling CPO cars than even new cars. So this whole notion that premium CPO used cars should be accepted as if they came from a junk yard because it costs too much to make them look respectable is baseless.
As is the notion that you should accept a 2-3 year old car costing $60K with dented panels, trashed interior, bumpers with holes in them and thousands worth of damage that needs to be fixed at a body shop.
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* Audi CPO:
https://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-CPO-Checklist-Final-PDF-Jan-18.pdf
* Mercedes CPO Program:
Drive Kit Plus for the iPhone
* Even Toyota refurbishes CPO cars they sell:
Certified Used Toyota Vehicles | Pre-Owned Cars, Trucks, SUVs & Hybrids
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No one is forgetting they are buying a used car when they look to buy a CPO car. They are paying less for the depreciation -- not for accepting a trashed car with thousands in damage that requires a trip to a body shop. You do know that premium car dealers are too embarrassed to sell such damaged cars -- right?
No one is expecting a new car either. They are just expecting a car that they can drive home with dignity without having to take it to a body shop. Every car dealer sells used CPO cars that are refurbished and manage to make a very decent profit selling those cars.
On your last point, I agree wholeheartedly in that you should inspect any used car that you buy carefully before you pay for it. If the car is damaged or trashed, just reject it.
Brettski
Member
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Interesting how you did not disagree with anything I said, other than attempting to deride my point of view as hyperbole. It is more than hyperbole for a recent forum member who put down a deposit trusting he would get a car in reasonable condition and then having to reject it because it was in such poor shape.
It is a fact that they are selling cars with trashed interiors. And it is a fact that they are selling cars with the exterior all banged up and dented with damage approaching $10K. Someone just posted photos of such a car just now. It is also a fact that no other car dealer other than Tesla sells cars in such dismal condition. These are all irrefutable facts.
Let me ask you this question, are you in the market to buy a CPO car? If you are and you are happy with what they are selling, that is wonderful for you. If you are not looking to buy a CPO car, then it seems your position here is that people should not complain when they are presented with cars with major damage? While you are entitled to that opinion. just understand that many people who are about to spend their hard earned money might disagree with you position that what is happening now is reasonable or acceptable.
I am sorry that the facts don't help your argument that selling cars in such poor condition is neither normal or acceptable.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I disagree with everything you said but it wasn't worth my time to refute each of your hyperbolic points.
Can we just agree to disagree and end this pointless discussion? You have your opinion and I have mine.
Best idea you had so far and I agree completely!
Let us agree to disagree that what we are seeing now with the CPO program is neither reasonable, acceptable or normal when buying a CPO car compared to the experience of buying a CPO Mercedes or a CPO Toyota for that matter.
Best idea you had so far and I agree completely!
Let us agree to disagree that what we are seeing now with the CPO program is neither reasonable, acceptable or normal when buying a CPO car compared to the experience of buying a CPO Mercedes or a CPO Toyota for that matter.
I'll agree to disagree with that also, since Tesla no longer has a CPO program. They do have used cars with 70 point mechanical inspections. If one does not like the combination of price point and condition, they are free to not buy the car.
Totally different setup from the old CPO/like-new system. Which is different, but fine since Tesla has no onus to offer reconditioned cars.
UPDATE: Tesla Changes CPO Program - Cars Mechanically Inspected
You have a great point as anyone who has bought a CPO car from a dealer would not be expecting Tesla to deliver a car with so much damage that it costs thousands to fix at a body shop.
You are also right that some of the CPO cars I have seen would never have be sold by a reputable car dealer, as those cars will either be refurbished or auctioned off because the car is in such poor condition.
Apologists for the poor treatment of customers not withstanding, I'm not sure how the current CPO program will be sustainable as it continues to harm Tesla's reputation and disappoint customers...
The other part of OPP “other people’s preowned” is that other brands publish and enforce a maintaince standard for cars in the program. If you haven’t done all your inspections and maintenance on time, BMW won’t buy your car for its CPO program.
I don’t think Tesla has any such rule.
Refusing to provide copies of the inspection / repair checklist for each car also undermines Tesla’s reputation and sows doubt. I see no upside for them. Are they hoping to avoid liability? I can’t come up with a legitimate business reason.
All that said, I bought a CPO under the old CPO program and the car was in great shape. Tesla fixed the few mechanical issues that have come up over 2 years.
Seems like such crazy corporate choices to add doubt and big question marks to what is likely the beginning of a joyful ownership experience.
I don’t think Tesla has any such rule.
Refusing to provide copies of the inspection / repair checklist for each car also undermines Tesla’s reputation and sows doubt. I see no upside for them. Are they hoping to avoid liability? I can’t come up with a legitimate business reason.
All that said, I bought a CPO under the old CPO program and the car was in great shape. Tesla fixed the few mechanical issues that have come up over 2 years.
Seems like such crazy corporate choices to add doubt and big question marks to what is likely the beginning of a joyful ownership experience.
Brettski
Member
Tesla definitely declared their position on their CPO process - and the rule of “buyer beware” certainly applies.
On the other hand, it *does* seem to go against the grain that one could buy a pretty beat-up CPO car from a premium car company like Tesla.
I speculate there are two factors which lead to the disappointment:
1) The oldest Model S’s out there are only around 6 years old..... the company is just growing into having aged cars in it’s fleet. Service centers have been more equipped for preparing new cars for delivery than reconditioning used ones. For example, the detailers at my local SC are so inexperienced that I have to request for them not to apply tire dressing when they do their post-service wash - when I first took delivery, I had to wash and clay the car the very next day to get rid whatever cheap tire dressing they had applied with enthusiasm. It was literally streaked across driver and passenger doors, as well as the both side of the rear bumper. They definitely need to empower staff with the knowledge and skills to detail CPO cars to a higher standard. Also, without on-site body shops, they can’t do a lot in-house repairs for dents and dings.
2) I think that the Tesla CPO site should post actual pictures in the listing, instead of having interested buyers have to request those. People start to bond with the idea of a perfect car when they see stock pictures on a listing, and it doesn’t meet with the reality of virtually any used cars. From the get-go, expectations are too high and disappointment is inevitable.
Even though I wouldn’t want to buy a CPO car in rough exterior condition - I would trust a CPO Tesla from a mechanical point of view more so than I would rust a cosmetically perfect ICE CPO car.
On the other hand, it *does* seem to go against the grain that one could buy a pretty beat-up CPO car from a premium car company like Tesla.
I speculate there are two factors which lead to the disappointment:
1) The oldest Model S’s out there are only around 6 years old..... the company is just growing into having aged cars in it’s fleet. Service centers have been more equipped for preparing new cars for delivery than reconditioning used ones. For example, the detailers at my local SC are so inexperienced that I have to request for them not to apply tire dressing when they do their post-service wash - when I first took delivery, I had to wash and clay the car the very next day to get rid whatever cheap tire dressing they had applied with enthusiasm. It was literally streaked across driver and passenger doors, as well as the both side of the rear bumper. They definitely need to empower staff with the knowledge and skills to detail CPO cars to a higher standard. Also, without on-site body shops, they can’t do a lot in-house repairs for dents and dings.
2) I think that the Tesla CPO site should post actual pictures in the listing, instead of having interested buyers have to request those. People start to bond with the idea of a perfect car when they see stock pictures on a listing, and it doesn’t meet with the reality of virtually any used cars. From the get-go, expectations are too high and disappointment is inevitable.
Even though I wouldn’t want to buy a CPO car in rough exterior condition - I would trust a CPO Tesla from a mechanical point of view more so than I would rust a cosmetically perfect ICE CPO car.
silverp85+
Member
I've purchased 2 CPOs till now and none came close to looking like this vehicle. Any issues with paint were taken car of (last CPO purchased sept 2017). When I purchased my first CPO the damager tolerance was the width of a pinkly or 10 mm. When I purchased my second CPO the damage tolerance was 2 inches and I was shocked to hear that nonsense. I told the CPO advisor to not even bother selling me anything with such damage at this price point and he agreed.
You can go to ANY used car lot and you would not see this type of condition.
If this was my car, I would have returned it the following day.
PS: the headliner damage is more than 2 inches and should be replaced or repaired and cleaned(!!).
You can go to ANY used car lot and you would not see this type of condition.
If this was my car, I would have returned it the following day.
PS: the headliner damage is more than 2 inches and should be replaced or repaired and cleaned(!!).
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I agree. It's way too much money to pay for a car that is not in decent shape. If we were to consider a CPO vehicle, we too would tell them that we are not interested in a vehicle that requires a trip to a body shop after delivery.
Congrats on getting your vehicles when they made sure to sell cars in decent condition! Hopefully after they get Model 3 deliveries ramped up, they will fix the mess with CPO cars.
I can't believe the condition of that car and I doubt anyone in the SF area would ever accept that as a Tesla CPO car nor would they even put it up without addressing those issues. I have a 2015 85D I will be selling and if it looked like that car I would call it "poor" at best. Anything that bad should be disclosed and have pictures. Even cheap used cars are cleaned better than this. I do agree, every higher end CPO car I have seen on a lot is immaculate compared to this. I can't believe there is a debate over the cosmetic condition of this and it seems there is a real issue with this delivery center. I'm sure a tweet to Elon with pics would resolve this in 5 minutes. "Here is what a Tesla CPO car looks like at deliver" Wow.
Unfortunately I don't think this is a specific delivery center. When this happened, they had an opportunity to do the right thing and put in place procedures to deliver a quality and respectable product to future customers. Instead they have pretty much institutionalized that horrible experience by getting rid of whatever meager standards they had back then and the current status quo is that they will sell cars that barely pass state inspection.
As long as the wheels turn, they will sell the car as they now only promise the car will function "mechanically."
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