Buying a Tesla Model 3 AWD - advise needed

[MountainRatMat]

Thanks, not worried too much about the look. I'm generally a more practical person, kinda why i can't justify 10k for performance though it makes me sad.

Sounds like you are similar thinking to me. I have an AWD LR with the 18's and with what you are looking at it is the best bang for the buck car. I also installed a NEMA 14-50 plug in the garage with larger gauge wire to future proof in case I eventually got a Tesla wall charger (which I did, but that is for other reasons).

Feel free to PM me with any other questions, I know more about Tesla than my friends like to hear.

 

[Knightshade]

Way too much negativity and crying over the Performance version. Don't listen to only practical reasoning - sex appeal matters too.

It has its challenges, but if you are a virile guy who wants to drive like a bat out of hell at every stop at light AND STOMP EVERYONE ELSE - there is only one car to fill that need.

Yes, but we're not discussing the Model S P100D right now...

10K over 5 years is $2,000 per year, $167 per month. Find a way to earn or save $167 per month. For that sum, ZL1 Corvettes cower in your presence.

I'm unclear here if mean a ZL1 camaro or a ZR1 Corvette

Probably not the vette since it does 0-60 in 2.9 and the 1/4 mile in the mid 10s, both significantly quicker than a P3D

Must mean the ZL1, since that's only doing ~3.5 0-60 (slightly slower than the P3D) and 11.5 in the quarter (slightly quicker than the P3D)- dunno that those are 'cowering' numbers though given the camaro will catch and pass you not too long after 60, finishing the quarter a good 10+ mph faster in trap speed...

Don't get me wrong, the P3D is phenomenal bang for its buck....but there's always someone faster.... the 10k for the P makes it so it's only maybe 1% of cars that are instead of more like 2% of cars that are quicker than the AWD...

And how much you'll ever deal with that 1% difference matters a lot to the value proposition...

Personally despite a ~75 mile a day worth of driving, I only actually encounter one stoplight total, or two if I go a different way....and in both cases I'm turning at that light rather than going straight... and since the P and AWD are nearly identical at highway speeds there's virtually 0 value at all to that 10k price bump for my driving.

Now if I still lived at my previous address, where I only drove maybe 10-15 miles a day, but it was 80% on roads with stoplights and douchebags in BMWs? That 10k starts offering a bit more value.

 

[MXWing]

es, but we're not discussing the Model S P100D right now...

We also not talking 2020 Roadster either friend. 3P Close enough. Certainly for $/performance ratio.

You with near 100% certainty take out the arch competitors. Anything Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Chevrolet, etc makes that street legal.

I'm unclear here if mean a ZL1 camaro or a ZR1 Corvette

Probably not the vette since it does 0-60 in 2.9 and the 1/4 mile in the mid 10s, both significantly quicker than a P3D

Must mean the ZL1, since that's only doing ~3.5 0-60 (slightly slower than the P3D) and 11.5 in the quarter (slightly quicker than the P3D)- dunno that those are 'cowering' numbers though given the camaro will catch and pass you not too long after 60, finishing the quarter a good 10+ mph faster in trap speed...

I've been at lights with both. No difference. None of them wants a piece. Those numbers depend on a perfect launch. No perfect launch needed on the 3. They simply don't try.

At a drag strip, track, Indy 500 - lots of scenarios where the 3P will not dominate. On the street where your car "lives" 99.99+ more of the time, the 3P is essentially the king not counting other Tesla's (your siblings).

Were not hitting quarter miles with a trap speed of 100+ on the streets. We are talking about getting in front of them at will from a stop. Also not doing anything that puts you in jail. 0-60 in 3.3 while being quiet wins many battles.

From a practical standpoint, none of those seat 5 and can store a full Costco run for that family as well.

Personally despite a ~75 mile a day worth of driving, I only actually encounter one stoplight total, or two if I go a different way....and in both cases I'm turning at that light rather than going straight... and since the P and AWD are nearly identical at highway speeds there's virtually 0 value at all to that 10k price bump for my driving.

Now if I still lived at my previous address, where I only drove maybe 10-15 miles a day, but it was 80% on roads with stoplights and douchebags in BMWs? That 10k starts offering a bit more value.

You might move again... and my thesis is based on one very important aspect - holding period. If you never use the 0-60, the 3P is not worth it.

There's people that could live with Canadian 93 Mile range Model 3. Maybe they do 20 mile round trips every day.

There's always an exception but I think I made good general arguments for the worth of going P over AWD.

We have no idea if @maseren has a driving situation more like yours or more like mine. There is absolutely no point at all in putting my wife into a 3P. She drives a 3SR and wouldn't know it if I put it in chill mode.

 

[TD1932]

Call a local certified electrician, tell them you need a 50 amp stove plug installed in your garage. The 14–50 outlet is the same exact plug in your kitchen that your range/stove plugs into. It’s not that big a deal and your main panel is most likely in or near your garage.

Hi There! Thanks for the advise there. I am in MD, snow tires are definitely not needed. Haven't needed them on my infiniti and won't need them on the tesla I think. You're right though, if I did get the performance i'd only be getting it for the 3.2 seconds, i won't be tracking it.

I'd also need to sell the wheel and tires it comes with and replace them with 18 inch wheel and tires that are all season, and frankly, it is SO hard to justify the cost! 10k... for my guy testosterone and pride... so hard to justify but so want it! heh

Umm... for the charging station, are you suggesting i don't need Tesla to install one for me? isn't the charge 5kw per hour on a normal electric charge? I am no expert so 14-30 or 14-50 doesn't tell me much.

If I do go with a tesla charger should i get a seperate electrician to do it? cheaper?

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[ammulder]

@MXWing — you’ve emboldened me to restate my prior message:

The Performance is f***ing awesome!

I’ve owned it for less than a week and I can already say I’ve never seen a car provide so many joyful moments to so many people. Everyone who has punched it — even not literally flooring it — has laughed out loud. Even my wife, who usually drives a minivan and occasionally accidentally goes for a while under the speed limit, actually giggled when she hit it. Then she did it again from like 40 and said ‘oh my God I was at 78 before I could pull my foot away!’

OK, then I told her ‘oh, yeah, you ARE gonna love this car!’ and she drove like a grandma for a while just to give me a hard time. But that’s my wife.

OP, you make noises like you care about the money, but then you say you’ll regret passing over the Performance. Only you know where the balance lies, but if it’s within reach, don’t be the one who regrets it. It’s worth the price on every drive.

 

[MXWing]

@ammulder

I pushed a friend over to the Performance dark side and what was hilarious was despite owning a Model 3 Performance himself, he didn't know what it felt like to be a 3P PASSENGER.

Months go by and eventually we went out with a high state of charge at night on roads with 60MPH speed limits. Was fun to see him have nothing to grab like a steering wheel.

Only you know where the balance lies, but if it’s within reach, don’t be the one who regrets it.

THIS. If it's a threat financially, better to not risk it. But if its just saving money.... so many people before the end of 2018 took losses on their 3LR, even 3AWD said - F it - YOLO and traded up to the 3P.

Everyone's situation is different but usually the weight of regret lies more on NOT doing something awesome, versus doing something awesome.

I don't think I've seen anyone go back and say they wish they didn't make that trade. A trade that no doubt cost them more than $10,000.

 

[Knightshade]

We also not talking 2020 Roadster either friend. 3P Close enough. Certainly for $/performance ratio.

You with near 100% certainty take out the arch competitors. Anything Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Chevrolet, etc makes that street legal.

I mean, that's demonstrably false.

The ZR1 vette beats you 0-60 from Chevy.

The M5 beats you 0-60 from BMW.

The AMG E63S and S63 coupes both beat you 0-60 from Mercedes.

Audi's the only one without a car that can run sub-3 second 0-60s to beat you- the R8 and RS7 still manage 3.2 though.

Porsche also sells some cars quicker than the P3D in both measures, though you left them off your brand list (ditto Nissan, Acura, and a few more exotic/limited production cars that nevertheless you might run into in real life)


If you genuinely want to beat any other street legal car you need a P100D, not a P3D.

Again the P3D is great bang for its buck, but there's always someone faster unless you're in a P100D.

(you can replace P100D with 2020 roadster eventually, but given they're not actually available yet, not so much right now)

From a practical standpoint, none of those seat 5 and can store a full Costco run for that family as well.

Well, this is again demonstrably false... the M5 is a sedan that seats 5 with a larger trunk than the P3D (though it's probably close if you add in the frunk and under-trunk), The E63S seats 5 too with a trunk a little smaller than the P3D. (ditto the Audis)... the quicker-than-P3D Porsches and Nissan are only 4-passenger though so I guess you win on those

You might move again... and my thesis is based on one very important aspect - holding period.

FWIW holding period for value on a house tends to outweigh holding period value on a car

If you never use the 0-60, the 3P is not worth it.

So then according to you, it wasn't worth it for you- since you've told us you never get the chance to use it:

None of them wants a piece.... They simply don't try.

And of course a P3D- is visually identical to an AWD Model 3, so they'd be no more likely to try against one than the other


And I can actually back you up on this one.... because on the rare occasions I drive someplace else that DOES have stoplights where I'm going straight I've never had any genuinely "quick" ICE car even try and race me.... they see Tesla and don't bother. Thus even then the P would've done nothing to add value.


That said- the one car that did ever try and race me at all was a crazy loud giant-fartcan-muffler Civic... and that result, even with "just" an AWD 3, was hilarious.

 

[hcdavis3]

I mean, that's demonstrably false.

The ZR1 vette beats you 0-60 from Chevy.

The M5 beats you 0-60 from BMW.

The AMG E63S and S63 coupes both beat you 0-60 from Mercedes.

Audi's the only one without a car that can run sub-3 second 0-60s to beat you- the R8 and RS7 still manage 3.2 though.

Porsche also sells some cars quicker than the P3D in both measures, though you left them off your brand list (ditto Nissan, Acura, and a few more exotic/limited production cars that nevertheless you might run into in real life)


If you genuinely want to beat any other street legal car you need a P100D, not a P3D.

Again the P3D is great bang for its buck, but there's always someone faster unless you're in a P100D.

(you can replace P100D with 2020 roadster eventually, but given they're not actually available yet, not so much right now)




Well, this is again demonstrably false... the M5 is a sedan that seats 5 with a larger trunk than the P3D (though it's probably close if you add in the frunk and under-trunk), The E63S seats 5 too with a trunk a little smaller than the P3D. (ditto the Audis)... the quicker-than-P3D Porsches and Nissan are only 4-passenger though so I guess you win on those







FWIW holding period for value on a house tends to outweigh holding period value on a car





So then according to you, it wasn't worth it for you- since you've told us you never get the chance to use it:




And of course a P3D- is visually identical to an AWD Model 3, so they'd be no more likely to try against one than the other


And I can actually back you up on this one.... because on the rare occasions I drive someplace else that DOES have stoplights where I'm going straight I've never had any genuinely "quick" ICE car even try and race me.... they see Tesla and don't bother. Thus even then the P would've done nothing to add value.


That said- the one car that did ever try and race me at all was a crazy loud giant-fartcan-muffler Civic... and that result, even with "just" an AWD 3, was hilarious.

Love the fart can muffler.

 

[ammulder]

I pushed a friend over to the Performance dark side and what was hilarious was despite owning a Model 3 Performance himself, he didn't know what it felt like to be a 3P PASSENGER.

Months go by and eventually we went out with a high state of charge at night on roads with 60MPH speed limits. Was fun to see him have nothing to grab like a steering wheel.

My first drive with my 11yo; I wait for the road to clear and gently turn the corner out of my neighborhood. I ask, ‘are you ready for this?’ and he says ‘yeah, DAD’ (he’s working on the teen attitude) Then he reaches for the screen to change my music. Just as his finger is about to touch the screen, I punch it. His arm flies back to about level with his face, and after I let up he gives me a stunned look. I tell him, ‘Don’t mess with the music!’

We both got a good laugh out of that. He kept trying, but I was fortunate with the traffic, and managed to keep the good tunes running.

 

[MXWing]

I mean, that's demonstrably false.

The ZR1 vette beats you 0-60 from Chevy.

The M5 beats you 0-60 from BMW.

The AMG E63S and S63 coupes both beat you 0-60 from Mercedes.

Audi's the only one without a car that can run sub-3 second 0-60s to beat you- the R8 and RS7 still manage 3.2 though.

They haven't though. You are reading a book or looking at technical specification. No M5 or Vette has managed to actually spin their wheels before I am already in motion.

I possibly lose if they are setting up to launch as if it was a drag strip. They can't or won't do that. Me, I do nothing special. I just GO. That's still winning.

You are also missing the point and losing sight of the big picture.

I argue the other makes are beatable on the streets, you argue they are not. The fact that were even having a conservation about a $59,500 car maybe not beating a $110,000 car speaks volumes about why someone SHOULD be getting a 3P.

The 3P is a good solution between the 3AWD and Model S P100DL for street king.

So then according to you, it wasn't worth it for you- since you've told us you never get the chance to use it:

You read me wrong somewhere I am sure. I average 350 watt/miles. I'd probably average 800 if I was the only car on the road.

And of course a P3D- is visually identical to an AWD Model 3, so they'd be no more likely to try against one than the other

Considering I BURN so many Model 3s in my Volt - other drivers actually do think Model 3's are pretty slow. They still drive aggressively until I pull up and they see the 20 wheels and red calipers.

 

[MXWing]

And of course a P3D- is visually identical to an AWD Model 3, so they'd be no more likely to try against one than the other

I guess you're color blind. For the rest of us normally-sighted people, we can tell the difference between the red calipers....

3P- doesn't have red calipers nor 20" wheels. @Knightshade is correct in this regard.

However, 3P- are exceedingly rare. They are truly stealth cars if they forgo the Dual Motor underline badging.

 

[Knightshade]

They haven't though. You are reading a book or looking at technical specification. No M5 or Vette has managed to actually spin their wheels before I am already in motion.

I mean, I'm not though- because all the cars I list have been real-world measured by objective sources running 2.something 0-60 times

You are also missing the point and losing sight of the big picture.

I argue the other makes are beatable on the streets, you argue they are not

You're moving your own goalposts now.

Your original claim wasn't that you might/could/maybe beat these cars with a P3D...it was that the P3D would

STOMP EVERYONE ELSE

and

You with near 100% certainty take out the arch competitors. Anything Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Chevrolet, etc makes that street legal

That's simply not true and not supported by real-world performance numbers of the cars being discussed.

The P100D is the only car your claims would be true of....(and even then there's a couple very limited-production cars that wouldn't exactly be a stomping)


Certainly any of them dumb enough to have picked the manual transmission option where available is probably going to lose because they chose an antique transmission that relies on an incredibly slow and inefficient human... but since the majority of those cars (in the US anyway) come with much quicker and more advanced automatics, typically with pretty advanced launch/traction control systems, they're instead going to usually beat a P3D unless they don't realize they are racing until after you've pulled away.

The fact that were having a conservation about a $59,500 car maybe not beating a $110,000 car speaks volumes about why someone SHOULD be getting a 3P.

I've said from the start the P3D is excellent bang for the buck. I just pointed out your claims it'll beat anything are simply inaccurate.

The fraction of cars the P3D can beat, but the AWD Model 3 can't, is pretty slim was my point.

They exist, but then so does the list of cars the P3D can't beat either.

If it's worth $10,000 to be able to beat 99% of cars instead of 98%, by all means, do it. But that's about the #s we're talking here.

I guess you're color blind. For the rest of us normally-sighted people, we can tell the difference between the red calipers....

uh...the P3D- doesn't have red calipers.

how embarrassing for you

 

[Knightshade]

OMG, really?

He said the two cars are indistinguishable. My comment stated that they are distinguishable from the red calipers.

Except, they aren't, since the P3D- doesn't have such calipers.

Thus what I wrote was 100% accurate. The P3D- is visually identical to an AWD Model 3.

Since, as a quick reminder, neither has red calipers.

OF COURSE I KNOW that the 3P- doesn't have the red calipers.

I mean, NOW you do I guess... but your comment makes 0 sense if you knew that previously.

 

[Knightshade]

Ok, I'll fix my last comment since there's a lot of really daft people in this world:

if you SCROLL UP THROUGH KNIGHTSHADE'S POST, you will see that he said:

"And of course a P3D- is visually identical to an AWD Model 3, so they'd be no more likely to try against one than the other "

NO, KNIGHSHADE, YOU ARE WRONG.

Except, I'm not.

The P3D- is visually identical to an AWD model 3

THE P3D- DOES NOT HAVE RED CALIPERS.

Yes. And neither does an AWD model 3.

Hence why they are visually identical.

Which I was correct about.

THE P3D+ DOES HAVE RED CALIPERS.

THEREFORE, THEY ARE NOT "VISUALLY IDENTICAL"

And literally nobody in the entire thread ever claimed the P3D+ was visually identical to anything.

So your original comment, and all following ones, continue to make absolutely 0 sense to anybody here.

 

[MXWing]

If it's worth $10,000 to be able to beat 99% of cars instead of 98%, by all means, do it. But that's about the #s we're talking here.

Let's just make this simple and I am willing to concede everything I've said before was hubrisy.

I'll restate as this:

Anything that cost less than $100,000 the Performance Model 3 can beat. Ok? That should disqualify pretty much your entire list.

Now go grab some motorcycles and prove me wrong here as well.

That 1% delta (98 to 99) is a compelling list:

BMW M3, Mercedes C63 AMG, etc.

$10,000 makes a difference here.

 

[Triplett]

wadda ya know.....I made a mistake....you're right, I'm wrong. I'll mark today as the first day of 2019 that I made a mistake....I doubt I'll make another one all year.

 

[MXWing]

wadda ya know.....I made a mistake....you're right, I'm wrong. I'll mark today as the first day of 2019 that I made a mistake....I doubt I'll make another one all year.

It’s ok to be wrong. Happens to me every once in awhile too.

Just gotta be right when it counts and better be more right than wrong overall to get credibility.

Where I am the most careful to not f up is when big money is on the line.

 

[Triplett]

I have a 99% win rate in court. The other 1% the judge was wrong.

 

[Knightshade]

Let's just make this simple and I am willing to concede everything I've said before was hubrisy.

I'll restate as this:

Anything that cost less than $100,000 the Performance Model 3 can beat. Ok? That should disqualify pretty much your entire list.

Now go grab some motorcycles and prove me wrong here as well.

Absolutely a fair position for you to move to....

Though there's still a very few non-Tesla and non-motorcycles that make it not TOTALLY accurate

The SRT Demon though that's hardly a super practical family car for example and is limited production.... and a BMW M5 dealer invoice is only 97k so you might be able to get one barely under 100k if you know someone, ditto the E63 AMG at ~99k .... The GT-R actually has a trim with an MSRP under 100k (barely) so I'd expect getting that real-world under 100k wouldn't even require being friends with the dealer.... and the Z06 corvette (not ZR1) was close to the same price as the P3D+ was originally, around 78k and still did 0-60 in 3 flat but 2 seater only...


Hence my total agreement for the whole package bang/buck-wise the P3D is unbeatable.... but there's always someone (often with less $ left in the bank) who is faster.

That 1% delta (98 to 99) is a compelling list:

BMW M3, Mercedes C63 AMG, etc.

$10,000 makes a difference here. No one cares about spanking a random 3 or C series.

Eh, based on what a few AWD draggy results have shown since the OTA power bump, if they were dumb enough to buy a manual M3 or the Cabriolet C63 AMG, I can beat them too

(but we're again back to both the fact I'm nearly never actually stopped at a stoplight going straight... and that the rare times I am nobody with a genuinely quick car even tries racing once they see the Tesla logo)

 

[MXWing]

Absolutely a fair position for you to move to....

Though there's still a very few non-Tesla and non-motorcycles that make it not TOTALLY accurate

The SRT Demon though that's hardly a super practical family car for example and is limited production.... and a BMW M5 dealer invoice is only 97k so you might be able to get one barely under 100k if you know someone, ditto the E63 AMG at ~99k .... The GT-R actually has a trim with an MSRP under 100k (barely) so I'd expect getting that real-world under 100k wouldn't even require being friends with the dealer.... and the Z06 corvette (not ZR1) was close to the same price as the P3D+ was originally, around 78k and still did 0-60 in 3 flat but 2 seater only...


Hence my total agreement for the whole package bang/buck-wise the P3D is unbeatable.... but there's always someone (often with less $ left in the bank) who is faster.







Eh, based on what a few AWD draggy results have shown since the OTA power bump, if they were dumb enough to buy a manual M3 or the Cabriolet C63 AMG, I can beat them too

(but we're again back to both the fact I'm nearly never actually stopped at a stoplight going straight... and that the rare times I am nobody with a genuinely quick car even tries racing once they see the Tesla logo)

With AP I can give everyone two middle fingers for an extended period of time in the 3P even if they out accelerate me.

Top that!

As far as pricing goes gotta remember though that none of the ice competition has EV incentives pushing the 3P way over the top.

It’s a slaughter when we do out the door cost accounting for all taxes, fees, registration. The 100K cars had nothing to offset them.

Tesla offered back 5K as well on those 3P- and 3P+


In 2018, the 3P- with 5K back was a stupid good deal. It would only been a 6K premium for you to go to 3P- which was a bit messed up from Tesla side for fairness.