Buying advice - New 3 or Used S

[gangzoom]

That's not why I took offense. gangzoom has lectured (as he has done across a number of forums and topics)

I have no intention of causing offensive so apologise if I did, but am not the one making totally inaccurate assumptions like thinking someone has never driven across Europe.

I have also NOT suggested driving 3hrs inaddtion to work is safe, quite the opposite I think its mad. But what else can you do it there is a multi car pile up on the M1/A14 which happens every month.

I've even stayed at a hotel closer to work overnight because of fatigue for a 60 mile trip. Presumably that's why HMRC pays business miles because they recognise the additional stress driving puts on a work day. Which is why I think its total utter madness to think you can drive from Aberdeen to the Alps on a regular basis.

But the OP seems convinced on the idea, so good luck to them.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I used to fly to Aberdeen often. I know the annoyances of limited flight schedule traveling to smaller airports. That said, a 2000km is a beating of a drive, and there's no way I'll ever trade substitute that against schlepping across airport transfers.

But you've already made up your mind on that point, so here's what I can add from doing 2000km pan European journeys in my Tesla:

* approx 150-200 EUR in supercharging cost (or around 7c/km, or the equivalent of a diesel car)
* charging stops every 2.5 hours. very tolerable spacing. perhaps not if you're doing it more than once a month.
* the autopilot cannot be relied to "relieve" your driving, imo. requires constant alertness -- phantom braking, refusal to work, incorrect speed limits, etc. disabled due to sensors being blocked, etc. it is useful in traffic jams though.

you'll be replacing a set of tires every 5-10 trips... thats not inconsequential.

Thats the benefit of the older car

- no supercharging fees
- no phantom braking, AP1 has always been pretty reliable at what its designed to do
- speed limit reading (although on the roads we're talking about the nearest you get to variable speed is the rain sensitive speed limit in France.

I fully accept you still have to concentrate but I find it still relieves some of the stress on long relatively empty stretches of motorway. I think DrFoster summed it up in that you'd need to try it and see how you get on although that doesn't really help the OP in deciding. What seems clear is there are a few different opinions and not a concensous of opinion.

 

[freekie]

Would be great if you could write up your experience of that trip to Chamonix in the M3 in a bit more detail!

Reckon quite a few people would find it valuable to hear what worked well/what didn't/what you'd do differently!

Mm it was at Christmas Time and I had a string then before going. Will look and see if it needs updating. It went very well though

 

[philingle]

Quite a range of views here, and some heated views on driving between Aberdeen and the Alps. Like most of the Brits that I know that have made the Alps into their home, I am pretty used to getting into my car and driving back to the UK a few times a year, I probably do the return journey to either N Wales or the Lakes three times a year on average. It is a 1500km trip, and in recent years having cruise control in my car has made it significantly easier.
I am looking at upping that frequency to eight times a year, and increasing the length of the trip to 2000km. That 30% increase in distance does not daunt me, it's not massive, and once you are north of Manchester the roads are quiet anyway.
What I really want to know is will that assisted driving features of the Tesla make the drive that much easier again.
So far the responses here are pretty much 50-50 which isn't selling it to me at the moment. I might as well get an Octavia Greenline with adaptive cruise, or a Kia e-Niro.
Thanks all for your constructive comments

 

[interbear]

I’ve not driven that distance in my Model 3 yet but have travelled from South Wales to Scotland and down to France. No question that the Model S is roomier and perhaps a little more refined for long motorway journeys. However, I’d still opt for a new Model 3 vs used Model S. The 3 is plenty big enough and comfortable enough, the lack of clutter and driving view is superb and the charging experience is good. I’d also personally prefer the reassurance of a Tesla warranty and roadside service that comes with a new Model 3 if I was regularly making such long trips. So I’m voting for Model 3.

 

[MrBadger]

What I really want to know is will that assisted driving features of the Tesla make the drive that much easier again.
So far the responses here are pretty much 50-50 which isn't selling it to me at the moment.

If you were hoping that Autopilot was hands and mind off driving, its far from it.​

or a Kia e-Niro

Don't under estimate the Tesla Supercharger network for long distance travel. Its a huge improvement on anything else out there on all fronts; speed, availability, reliability, costs, ease of use, integration with vehicle etc.

 

[holmgang]

So far the responses here are pretty much 50-50 which isn't selling it to me at the moment. I might as well get an Octavia Greenline with adaptive cruise, or a Kia e-Niro.
Thanks all for your constructive comments

My experience on long trips with Tesla is you stop to charge every 2-2.5 hours, for ~30 minutes.

Having to stop , say, every 1.5-2 hours, to charge for 1hour, that is an absolute killer. The proposition for most non-Tesla on long road trips just fall apart.

 

[Ant M3]

Quite a range of views here, and some heated views on driving between Aberdeen and the Alps. Like most of the Brits that I know that have made the Alps into their home, I am pretty used to getting into my car and driving back to the UK a few times a year, I probably do the return journey to either N Wales or the Lakes three times a year on average. It is a 1500km trip, and in recent years having cruise control in my car has made it significantly easier.
I am looking at upping that frequency to eight times a year, and increasing the length of the trip to 2000km. That 30% increase in distance does not daunt me, it's not massive, and once you are north of Manchester the roads are quiet anyway.
What I really want to know is will that assisted driving features of the Tesla make the drive that much easier again.
So far the responses here are pretty much 50-50 which isn't selling it to me at the moment. I might as well get an Octavia Greenline with adaptive cruise, or a Kia e-Niro.
Thanks all for your constructive comments

Two main comments really ...

Autopilot and FSD functionality is restricted in Europe (at the moment) and makes it no better in reality than some of the good adaptive cruise control systems from other manufacturers.

if you do still go EV then the Tesla advantage would be the supercharger network which others would not have - don’t underestimate how much you’ll need this really

one final note, if you got M3, don’t go for the performance model (I have this) I think you’ll find the ride too hard for those distances

 

[Adopado]

Don't under estimate the Tesla Supercharger network for long distance travel. Its a huge improvement on anything else out there on all fronts; speed, availability, reliability, costs, ease of use, integration with vehicle etc.

This is the real clincher if getting an EV for long distance driving. Try doing test routes on Abetterroutepanner for different EVs. The Tesla (any Tesla) is always considerably quicker than any other EV due to the speed and availability of charging ... and that's without taking into account the unreliability factor of non-Tesla chargers.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Quite a range of views here, and some heated views on driving between Aberdeen and the Alps. Like most of the Brits that I know that have made the Alps into their home, I am pretty used to getting into my car and driving back to the UK a few times a year, I probably do the return journey to either N Wales or the Lakes three times a year on average. It is a 1500km trip, and in recent years having cruise control in my car has made it significantly easier.
I am looking at upping that frequency to eight times a year, and increasing the length of the trip to 2000km. That 30% increase in distance does not daunt me, it's not massive, and once you are north of Manchester the roads are quiet anyway.
What I really want to know is will that assisted driving features of the Tesla make the drive that much easier again.
So far the responses here are pretty much 50-50 which isn't selling it to me at the moment. I might as well get an Octavia Greenline with adaptive cruise, or a Kia e-Niro.
Thanks all for your constructive comments

Breaks down like this:

Tesla system isn't significantly better than adaptive cruise and lane keep is now available on an increasing number of cars on long quiet sttretches of road. The Kia system is very good as is the the latest system in BMWs (possibly the same mobileye system). I don't use the lane keep that often on my Tesla as its hardly taxing keeping between lines, its the speed control that I personally found to give the biggest benefit I found. Some on here use the auto steering function to take their children to school which I find bizarre as its not safe, but just goes to show we're all different.

If you go EV then the Tesla superchargers make life easier and quicker but there are an increasing number of similarily fast chargers available to other makes

But Petrol or diesel will always be much more convenient on a long drive than electricity however fast you can charge.

 

[freekie]

If you were hoping that Autopilot was hands and mind off driving, its far from it.​

Don't under estimate the Tesla Supercharger network for long distance travel. Its a huge improvement on anything else out there on all fronts; speed, availability, reliability, costs, ease of use, integration with vehicle etc.

Agree wholeheartedly with the supercharger network. I found on long journeys need to stop to charge coincides with comfort break and by the time you’ve queued for a coffee, charging is almost complete. Alternatively you can watch Netflix while charging!

 

[12Pack]

I’ve owned 3 MS’ so far. I need the room, and appreciate the smooth and quiet ride compared to the the Model 3 I drive when in the US. Personally I love having my geek needs fulfilled continuously showing energy usage, trip info all at once as well and the large portrait screen showing huge swaths of the road ahead.

But sounds like OP needs the most efficient car that can use Tesla superchargers - so it’s got to be the 3.

 

[philingle]

So according to ABPR...

Car - Driving time - Charging time - no of charging stops
Tesla S 90D - 21h26 - 3h54 - 11
Tesla 3 LR - 20h56 - 2h59 - 8
Kia Niro 64 - 21h46 - 6h11 - 9

The driving time is immaterial, and should be the same for all three. The Kia does need twice as long sat at charge points, compared to the 3 and half as much again as the S. The difference in the time spent charging for the two Tesla's doesn't look that significant, but the decrease in number of stops (i.e. increase in range) of the 3 (and the Kia) over the S is notable.

So it looks like the Kia and the 3 win on number or stops, and the two tesla's win on length of stops. With any of them it will be two 10 hour days behind the wheel. With the Teslas they will be 12 hour days in total and with the Kia 13 hour days...

Hmm...

Still not keen on getting on an aeroplane at the moment...

 

[MrBadger]

The driving time is immaterial, and should be the same for all three.

You might think, but not so with an EV. Due to the non linear way that the battery charges, there are differences in overall journey time between lots of short fast splash and dash's and fewer long slower stints.

 

[philingle]

You might think, but not so with an EV. Due to the non linear way that the battery charges, there are differences in overall journey time between lots of short fast splash and dash's and fewer long slower stints.

Yeah, thanks for that, I hadn't realised

 

[gangzoom]

The driving time is immaterial, and should be the same for all three.

Sadly long distance drives in EVs is very different from normal cars. When was the last time you checked the weather of your destination before getting in the car, or even wind speed/direction (yes you need to factor that in!!).

Different EVs also have different 'ideal' cruising speeds depending on charger speed/availability, weather, temperature, your appetite for arriving at a charger with 1% SOC versus 10%.

See if you can hire an EV/Tesla to try out the trip before committing not an insubstantial amount of money on something that might not work for you.

Also bear in mind current weather is 'ideal' for EV range, what you need to know is if the trip is doable in the middle of winter.