With all the talk about 20 vs 22, it's been proven that the 22" lose about 10%-20% range. I am guessing it has to do with the 20lbs the new wheels carry, 5 extra lbs on the tires and the wider grippier tires. With that in mind, would it be possible to gain range with lighter rims and tires? After extensive search, I found some rims that are 5lbs lighter than the factory one. When all is set and done, I am guessing I will save 20lbs while losing some aero. If this is the case, would it be possible to see a 5-10% gain in range? I have a heavy foot and I am stuck with a 375 Wh/mi. Has someone try to buy lighter wheels or is everyone just buying the T Sportsline wheel for the looks? These wheels I am looking at are 25lbs or so each
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Buying range with lighter wheels
- Thread starter mattack4000
- Start date
There are some others who went with T-sport line 22" which are similar or less than Stock 20" wheels and claimed they get the same or better range. I considered that route but in the end could not justify paying $10K for a set of wheels compared to $3.5K Tesla 22"s from buying referral award from another owner.
Given that the weight saving as a percentage of the total weight (20/5290 = 0.4%) is *insignificant, I would suggest aero and tyres are the key elements here in affecting the range. So you need to find out which is the most efficient tyre in terms of rolling resistance and pair it with the best aero wheels. Otherwise you might be disappointed in the results!
Also when looking at super lightweight wheels make sure they are rated to handle the weight or your disappointment could dramatically increase! At a cost of $1500 I wouldn't expect them to be up to the job. When faced with the choices of strong, light, cheap, you can only usually pick two of those parameters!
*It is rotating mass and as a very rough rule of thumb in motorsport we multiply rotating mass by a factor of 1.5 in proportion to static mass, so you could argue that it should be more like the equivalent of a 0.6% weight saving, but still hardly a big deal on a 5000+ lb car!
Also when looking at super lightweight wheels make sure they are rated to handle the weight or your disappointment could dramatically increase! At a cost of $1500 I wouldn't expect them to be up to the job. When faced with the choices of strong, light, cheap, you can only usually pick two of those parameters!
*It is rotating mass and as a very rough rule of thumb in motorsport we multiply rotating mass by a factor of 1.5 in proportion to static mass, so you could argue that it should be more like the equivalent of a 0.6% weight saving, but still hardly a big deal on a 5000+ lb car!
Agreed aero and rolling resistance are the real factors. Get carried away trying to improve rolling resistance and cornering and braking will be compromised.
I suspect Tesla doesn't leave a lot of room for improvement range wise with the standard size tire and aero rims. If there were room there they could make a killing on selling g the upgrade and they could quantify it better than anyone here.
I suspect Tesla doesn't leave a lot of room for improvement range wise with the standard size tire and aero rims. If there were room there they could make a killing on selling g the upgrade and they could quantify it better than anyone here.
That's a very good point. You would expect Tesla to have put a fair bit of effort into these factors already. Although there is a lot of vanity involved in wheel choices, so there may well be a more aero-efficient wheel choice that doesn't look so good! But unless someone has specifically carried out meaningful tests, you will be just guessing.
Think about it. Would adding a 20 lb backpack in the car decrease the range by 5%?
Rotating weight matters more than cargo weight, and weight at a bigger circumfrance matters more than small diameter, so the analogy does not work atall
You have to learn what unsprung weight vs sprung weight is before you make a comment like that.
Anyway Tesla already said cars with 22" lose 10-15% of its range. The front tires are the same width (same drag), but the rear tires are 10mm wider. The extra width would account for additional drag. The tire compounds are also different, so I am sure that's part of the loss too.
The 20 and the 22s are both pretty close in terms of looks, the aero difference between them are probably be immaterial.
Outside of the factors I mentioned, the real difference between them are the 5-8lbs in unsprung weight per corner. If you keep the tires the same as the 20s, in theory the difference would come down to just the weight and aero difference.
Anyway Tesla already said cars with 22" lose 10-15% of its range. The front tires are the same width (same drag), but the rear tires are 10mm wider. The extra width would account for additional drag. The tire compounds are also different, so I am sure that's part of the loss too.
The 20 and the 22s are both pretty close in terms of looks, the aero difference between them are probably be immaterial.
Outside of the factors I mentioned, the real difference between them are the 5-8lbs in unsprung weight per corner. If you keep the tires the same as the 20s, in theory the difference would come down to just the weight and aero difference.
It takes less power to spin the wheels, you exert less energy to spin it. How does that not impact range?
The 22s come with 420 treadwear tires, it’s not like they are slicks. I am sure they create more friction, but that’s not the only item eating up 10% of the range.
The diameter change between the two setups are within 1%. They are not material either.
The 22s come with 420 treadwear tires, it’s not like they are slicks. I am sure they create more friction, but that’s not the only item eating up 10% of the range.
The diameter change between the two setups are within 1%. They are not material either.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
It is not the weight of the wheel that gives the savings, but the amount in the barrel nearest the tire. That weight towards the outside is what takes so much energy to spin up and down.
Remember, the strength of the wheels play a significant part in the crash rating and safety of your Tesla. While you might gain range with your wheel selection, also consider safety.
Tesla are pretty heavy. Be sure the tires and wheels are rated to carry the load. Also be sure the offset is correct, bolt pattern is properly milled and there is space for brake and suspension clearance.
Remember, the strength of the wheels play a significant part in the crash rating and safety of your Tesla. While you might gain range with your wheel selection, also consider safety.
Tesla are pretty heavy. Be sure the tires and wheels are rated to carry the load. Also be sure the offset is correct, bolt pattern is properly milled and there is space for brake and suspension clearance.
You really think tread wear rating for which there is no universal standard really tells you all you need to know about a tire's rolling resistance?
What is a UTQG treadwear rating? | TireBuyer.com | TireBuyer.com
Are you going to dismiss everything that doesn't blindly conform to the decision you already made?
If lighter forged wheels were worth 10% range, you wouldn't see a single one delivered with cast wheels.
On my wife's last car (Impala)switching from the original LRR Uniroyal tires to a Goodyear Assurance Tripletread netted a 10% economy loss. Not like they were racing tires. I don't have tires to check the wear rating on but both would have been high. She got like 80k out of the bad for mileage Goodyear's. They were way better in advere weather though so worth it.
What is a UTQG treadwear rating? | TireBuyer.com | TireBuyer.com
Are you going to dismiss everything that doesn't blindly conform to the decision you already made?
If lighter forged wheels were worth 10% range, you wouldn't see a single one delivered with cast wheels.
On my wife's last car (Impala)switching from the original LRR Uniroyal tires to a Goodyear Assurance Tripletread netted a 10% economy loss. Not like they were racing tires. I don't have tires to check the wear rating on but both would have been high. She got like 80k out of the bad for mileage Goodyear's. They were way better in advere weather though so worth it.
Unsprung means NOTHING to range. Rotating means something in STOP AND GO driving but is not going to be significant in highway cruising.
You point out that Tesla states a 10-15% range reduction from 22" rim package but you are PRETENDING the tires are not an issue. The tires are a huge factor. They are not the same tires. Yes the with of the rears means something but so do the tread compound and pattern.
You are trying to grossly oversimplify the discussion to narrow it down to the one detail you decided matters.
You want to fixate on a detail and say it makes all the difference why do the 22" pirellis at 42psi lose range vs. the 40psi Continetals, we MUST ASSume that lower pressure increases range right?
You point out that Tesla states a 10-15% range reduction from 22" rim package but you are PRETENDING the tires are not an issue. The tires are a huge factor. They are not the same tires. Yes the with of the rears means something but so do the tread compound and pattern.
You are trying to grossly oversimplify the discussion to narrow it down to the one detail you decided matters.
You want to fixate on a detail and say it makes all the difference why do the 22" pirellis at 42psi lose range vs. the 40psi Continetals, we MUST ASSume that lower pressure increases range right?
Do you only drive at one constant speed? Every time you hit the pedal, your car will use less power to get you up to speed. You can argue how much power that saves, but you can't tell me it won't make any difference.
I said in everyone of my post that the tires are different between the 20s and 22s. Are you not reading correctly?
The replacement set I am looking at will have the same size and compound as the OEM 20s. I simply want to know what I should expect from shaving at least 5lbs off each corner.
I said in everyone of my post that the tires are different between the 20s and 22s. Are you not reading correctly?
The replacement set I am looking at will have the same size and compound as the OEM 20s. I simply want to know what I should expect from shaving at least 5lbs off each corner.
You seem to think unsprung and rotating are the same thing.
I said rotating will make some difference.
You believe that the weight of the 22s is an all important factor.
I admit it is a factor but as a decades long automotive enthusiast I think you are placing vastly too much emphasis on that item while dismissing the tires as a factor there.
Point being I understand you can swap to lighter rims and reuse your current tires but that does not translate to the 10-15% difference seem with the OEM 20-22" change like you think it will.
I said rotating will make some difference.
You believe that the weight of the 22s is an all important factor.
I admit it is a factor but as a decades long automotive enthusiast I think you are placing vastly too much emphasis on that item while dismissing the tires as a factor there.
Point being I understand you can swap to lighter rims and reuse your current tires but that does not translate to the 10-15% difference seem with the OEM 20-22" change like you think it will.
I would think very little in terms of range. The reduction in unsprung weight will be beneficial to handling (providing these wheels are strong enough to cope with the loading - I presumed you've checked that right?), but even taking into account the increased energy in accelerating the wheels (some of which you will actually recover when decelerating) it's just not enough of a percentage of the total mass to have a significant effect on range. It will be totally lost in the noise of ambient temperature, rain, speed, traffic conditions etc. If you are expecting a 5-10% increase in range, then you are likely to be disappointed.
I would say that the tyre compounds and construction (lower sidewall profiles on 22s) are the primary differences here and everything else is pretty insignificant, including the wheel mass.
Have you calculated the break even point of spending thousands of dollars on wheels and tires to save a small power?
Electricity is cheap and saving some insignificant amount of electricity (maybe 25wh/mi) seems pointless to me.
Reduced energy used is just icing on the cake and visual appeal, performance, safety are worth spending the money on.
Electricity is cheap and saving some insignificant amount of electricity (maybe 25wh/mi) seems pointless to me.
Reduced energy used is just icing on the cake and visual appeal, performance, safety are worth spending the money on.
