I just got my 2018 renewal for our Model S and it looks like all California owners will be seeing a $175.00 increase in registration.
Assuming your purchase was more than $60k.
Assuming your purchase was more than $60k.
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California Owners and DMV
- Thread starter Wknapp0924
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- California Model S
Oh boy, mine is coming.... guess they want that state tax credit money back. Sounds like an interesting court battle, enough CA owners hopefully to pile in. How would one go about filing suit?
Graffi
Member
You would think this is fair, but when you find out that around 20% of current gas tax goes to roads, and already the Dems in state legislature have spent all the new tax money, including the increase you paid, on things other than roads, then maybe not so fair. Just a thought.
CameronB
Member
I would like to see some more thought put into these fees. I think a few things are simultaneously true:
1) As electric vehicles becomes the dominant class of vehicles, we will need to replace the taxes imposed upon gasoline and diesel that go to (supposedly!) road repairs. They will eventually become dominant. How long it takes for the tipping point to happen is debateable.
2) Electric cars today are only about 1% of the US total car fleet (maybe a little more in some states like CA, but still a very small percentage)
3) As a society, we should incentivize what we wish to encourage, environmentally speaking in particular.
Thus, I think a more forward and balanced approach would be to transition the road taxes from gasoline to electricity more slowly and tied to their relative population on the road.
1%-5% adoption: no electric registration surcharge. Make this a perk, an extra savings, etc. in this current time of trying to get more BEVs on the road.
6% + adoption: figure out the average price in taxes a state’s driving citizen will typically pay when buying gasoline/diesel for a year. Let’s say that’s $150 (12,000 miles, 30 mpg, .$0.36/g excise tax). Maybe the number should be higher or lower, but let’s go with with this for an example.
Just phase in the tax to slowly ‘transfer’ it to the electric car owners.
So when EVs are 10% of a state’s total cars, then the registration surcharge would be $15. When it’s 25%, registration surcharge would be $37.50, etc.
Placing a $175 a year registration fees on BEVs at current penetration levels seems a bit counter productive in my opinion. Plus that means that any ICE car that gets better than 25mpg (assuming ‘average’ 12,000 miles/yr) is actually paying less for ‘road taxes’ than a BEV even though ICE cars make up about 99.5%-97% of the cars on the road in the US.
TL;DR: I think we should have a more progressive tax that takes into account BEV adoption numbers and is encouraging early adoption rather than presenting even small obstacles to the important early ramp initiative.
1) As electric vehicles becomes the dominant class of vehicles, we will need to replace the taxes imposed upon gasoline and diesel that go to (supposedly!) road repairs. They will eventually become dominant. How long it takes for the tipping point to happen is debateable.
2) Electric cars today are only about 1% of the US total car fleet (maybe a little more in some states like CA, but still a very small percentage)
3) As a society, we should incentivize what we wish to encourage, environmentally speaking in particular.
Thus, I think a more forward and balanced approach would be to transition the road taxes from gasoline to electricity more slowly and tied to their relative population on the road.
1%-5% adoption: no electric registration surcharge. Make this a perk, an extra savings, etc. in this current time of trying to get more BEVs on the road.
6% + adoption: figure out the average price in taxes a state’s driving citizen will typically pay when buying gasoline/diesel for a year. Let’s say that’s $150 (12,000 miles, 30 mpg, .$0.36/g excise tax). Maybe the number should be higher or lower, but let’s go with with this for an example.
Just phase in the tax to slowly ‘transfer’ it to the electric car owners.
So when EVs are 10% of a state’s total cars, then the registration surcharge would be $15. When it’s 25%, registration surcharge would be $37.50, etc.
Placing a $175 a year registration fees on BEVs at current penetration levels seems a bit counter productive in my opinion. Plus that means that any ICE car that gets better than 25mpg (assuming ‘average’ 12,000 miles/yr) is actually paying less for ‘road taxes’ than a BEV even though ICE cars make up about 99.5%-97% of the cars on the road in the US.
TL;DR: I think we should have a more progressive tax that takes into account BEV adoption numbers and is encouraging early adoption rather than presenting even small obstacles to the important early ramp initiative.
In California, the EV fee doesn't start until 2020.
I don't know what the OP is talking about. The only recent increase in CA reg fee was this:
"Jun 13, 2016 - Jerry Brown and Democratic legislative leaders. The agreement includes a $10 per year increase in the vehicle registration fee that funds the Department of Motor Vehicles and CaliforniaHighway Patrol. It's effective April 1, 2017. "
Calif. Budget Deal Includes Increase In Vehicle Registration Fee
Hate to be a spoil sport, but it was ~20% increase from $43 to $53. But everybody knows this is the not the registration fee we see. A ten year old small(<80cc) dirt bike is $53 before the rise. A 3 year old small (<250cc) street motorcycle is $109 before the increase. We are talking roughly the sales tax that would be charged for a used bike if you sold it, but every year.
Cars are far, far more. A 1 year old car that was $30k sees a $327 annual tax. A 2.5 year old is $284.
For parity, since a car weighs 10 times as much, and averages about 10 times the street miles, registration should be $1,090 for a 3 year old $30k new car. A 3 year old $90k car should be $3.3k every year.
It is obvious that a 400lb motorcycle does not damage roads 100x worse (1/10th weight, 1/10th miles) than a 4000lb car. But who is going to complain? The 1% of those who ride?
The biggest trick is valuation. It's not a registration fee, it's a property tax on motorized vehicles. Actual registration costs under $10 to process, it's automated.
Graffi
Member
We have already signed the petition, too bad this is not Chicago so we can vote early, and vote often...
The 2020 $100 EV fee is one thing, but there is another "Transportation Improvement Fee" (TIF) that works out to be $175 annually for cars worth over $60K...There is a slightly smaller fee if the car value is lower...
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...733-9557-5c60479d6057/17vin25.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...733-9557-5c60479d6057/17vin25.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Not fair at all, actually.
First of all, there's a difference between local EVs (everything but a Tesla, unless and until the CCS infrastructure is built out and/or the same for ChaDeMo if/when Leaf range matches the Bolt) and Teslas, relative to monies collected by the DMV - especiallly over those first 7 years. Using round numbers, I'll have paid over $5,000 to the DMVin those 7 years. I don't need to pay another $100 or $175/year solely for being discriminated against.
Second, instead of giving with one hand (see State rebate) and taking away with the other for EVs, how about raising registration costs for gas-guzzlers and heavier vehicles that pollute more and tear up the roads more, respectively?
In fairness, if an *across the board* registration increase was applied based upon GVW (weight), *that* I would have less problem with.
Lastly, why give gas-guzzlers a break by not raising *their* DMV costs, effectively subsidizing gas/oil *even more* AND at the same time not give them an incentive to switch to EVs?
Harrumph.
Harrumph a second time!
/goml
Frankman60
Member
With an annual increase of $275 ($100 in 2020 + $175 in 2018), the roads in California should be the smoothest in the world.
I think this is where lawsuits are won and lost... Can they provide a tangible reason for charging cars worth a certain amount of money an additional fee to register? This might have held with "gas guzzler" exotics, but not with a Tesla...
ishareit
Member
In WA there is a weight based fee but its a small amount I think. e.g. $10 vs $30.
If you want the logical end it has to be
-miles traveled
-combined with weight, assuming weight causes damage.
I vaguely recall "normal cars" do no real damage but its buses and semi's that impact the roads.
I would also slug an extra tax on studded tires (if allowable in that state) due to damage caused.
If you want the logical end it has to be
-miles traveled
-combined with weight, assuming weight causes damage.
I vaguely recall "normal cars" do no real damage but its buses and semi's that impact the roads.
I would also slug an extra tax on studded tires (if allowable in that state) due to damage caused.
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