Can I add a 100A circuit for HPWC?

[mknox]

The utility has to disconnect your service, then reconnect it, and they charge big bucks for that (because they can!).

Not necessarily. I don't know about BC Hydro but most, if not all Ontario utilities will provide a disconnect and re-connect so that an electrician can do service work in the home at no cost. If the utility wires (overhead or underground) need to be upgraded to support a new, larger service, then there may be a charge for that. Regulators generally don't like costs that benefit only one customer to be spread across the entire rate base (i.e. your neighbor shouldn't have to pay through their rates for work that only benefits you).

 

[milotron]

Those rates for a service upgrade are about right. The box is cheap, but the additional conduits, wiring cables and labour cost. The BC Hydro fees are about $400 at least for a 'work with' where Hydro isolates your service while the electrician does this upgrade.

Costwise, the 30 amp receptacle may be the cheapest way to go. See how that suits your charging needs and see if the additional costs are justified. The best thing about charging over night, even if it takes 10 hours, is that the tank is always full in the morning.

Your electricians comments about the 100 amps of the 125 amps breakers is not quite true, as residential loading is a mix of continuous ( 80% demand ) and non-continuous ( 100% demands ). If you are that close, a proper review of the demand and load calculation may allow the 50 amp to just make it. In reality, the likelihood is that it is not an issue, but we still have to meet the requirements of the electrical code.

The rebate is nice. I had my car delivered prior to them extended the rebate so I delayed purchase of the HPWC. I also wanted to build an Open EVSE, as I can do it much cheaper than the HPWC. Although with the rebate, it makes it pretty close. I am still using a 50 amp receptacle right now.

 

[SteveW25561]

Thanks Milotron.

I think we might be able to make it work: I think the contractor assumed a few things on the breaker were being used. For example we have a cooktop on a 30a 240V circuit (on the subpanel) that we don't use at all (we have a secondary kitchen with a gas stove), and in the garage there is an unused circuit (15a) for a non installed central vacuum. If we physically disconnect the unused cooktop (the breaker is currently off) and recalculate the load, I hope we will be quite clear for a 50A circuit.

I have another estimate coming on Monday and will ask this specifically.

Finally, if my breaker is 125A wouldn't that mean my service line from BC Hydro is 200A?

 

[milotron]

Possibly, but not necessarily. Hydro puts in whatever wire size they can get away with based on your service size. They have standard conductors sizes for 125 amps and below and for 200 amps, then multiples of that as the service size goes up. If you are under ground, it may not be a big issue to up the Hydro conductor size, but only Hydro can answer that question. It would required them to physically pull new conductors into the conduit up to the meterbase; you would be required to (possibly) replace the meter base and cabling between the meter and panel. It is more than swapping out the main panel, which where the costs start to go up.

 

[100thMonkey]

have you looked into having a 100A sub panel added? That's what I am thinking of doing. This way they don't have to rewire the house to a new panel which can eat up a lot of labor $ and then it comes down to whether the drop to the house can handle the extra load and how much the utility is going to ding you for upgrading if need be. We are headed in the direction of going net zero energy/zero net carbon by adding more solar and switching from gas to hydronic geothermal, we upped our service to 225 last year and now are already maxing out again with the addition of the HPWC or Clipper Creek CS100... didn't plan that so well. we may jump up to a 400A service once and for all to avoid this from happening again. electricity has become the common denominator for all our future upgrade plans, I wouldn't have guessed that 10 years ago.

 

[jkirkebo]

See if you can find an electrician willing to put in a 50A circuit. You can still use the HPWC with the current setting dialed down to 40. You don't really need uber-fast charging at home and this will be a lot less expensive.

The HPWC can be dialed all the way down to 32A so a 40A circuit can be used. That will probably be the easiest and cheapest solution?
32A@240V is 7.7kW so a full charge in about 11 hours.

 

[mknox]

If you are under ground, it may not be a big issue to up the Hydro conductor size, but only Hydro can answer that question. It would required them to physically pull new conductors into the conduit up to the meterbase;

Depends on whether BC Hydro use conduit or direct-buried conductors. Direct-buried cable would have to be dug up and new cable trenched in.

- - - Updated - - -

have you looked into having a 100A sub panel added? That's what I am thinking of doing.

Likely not possible in Canada. Here, you would have to upgrade the main service to 200 amps, then run a sub-panel (or circuit) to the garage, You can't have multiple panels connected to one meter in parallel.

 

[Cosmacelf]

$4k sounds about right. Labour is expensive and there is a lot of labour and expertise to switch out a panel. If you weren't chasing government tax breaks, you could do yourself a favour and just install a 50 amp nema 14-50 receptacle and be done with it.

 

[SteveW25561]

It's not about the tax break. I prefer the convenience and elegance of not having to schlep out a cable each time I want to charge. Given how often it rains in Vancouver I'd rather not be plugging and unplugging the mobile connector each night (safety, wear and tear, etc) - not sure of the UMCs long term water safety if kept outside for example (other posts I've seen where people leave the UMC outdoor have been in California).

When I first looked at this I figured I'd go with the full 100A solution but it really seems the 50A or 40A option is just fine assuming my panel can handle it. I can always bite the bigger bullet later.

Thanks for all the input.

$4k sounds about right. Labour is expensive and there is a lot of labour and expertise to switch out a panel. If you weren't chasing government tax breaks, you could do yourself a favour and just install a 50 amp nema 14-50 receptacle and be done with it.

 

[Doug_G]

Not necessarily. I don't know about BC Hydro but most, if not all Ontario utilities will provide a disconnect and re-connect so that an electrician can do service work in the home at no cost. If the utility wires (overhead or underground) need to be upgraded to support a new, larger service, then there may be a charge for that. Regulators generally don't like costs that benefit only one customer to be spread across the entire rate base (i.e. your neighbor shouldn't have to pay through their rates for work that only benefits you).

Really? Please tell Ottawa Hydro to stop gouging their customers. They charge well over $1000 for nothing more than disconnecting and reconnecting.

 

[mknox]

Really? Please tell Ottawa Hydro to stop gouging their customers. They charge well over $1000 for nothing more than disconnecting and reconnecting.

I will, and I'll double check with our own service crews next week as well. As I say, all of the LDCs I've worked for in the past will do a disconnect/re-connect (once per year) for free to allow for panel work in the home. This typically entails pulling the meter, then re-installing and re-sealing later. Now, if you are replacing underground or overhead supply cables and they have to roll a bucket truck and line crew, it could be different. If you're disconnected for non-payment, my utility does charge a re-connect fee: $65 if at the meter and $185 if at the pole.

 

[efxjim]

In California I upgraded from a 125 to 200A panel for $1500 including all permits and fees. I was happily surprised.

 

[milotron]

It's not about the tax break. I prefer the convenience and elegance of not having to schlep out a cable each time I want to charge. Given how often it rains in Vancouver I'd rather not be plugging and unplugging the mobile connector each night (safety, wear and tear, etc) - not sure of the UMCs long term water safety if kept outside for example (other posts I've seen where people leave the UMC outdoor have been in California).

When I first looked at this I figured I'd go with the full 100A solution but it really seems the 50A or 40A option is just fine assuming my panel can handle it. I can always bite the bigger bullet later.

Thanks for all the input.

Victoria is only marginally drier than Vancouver and I leave my UMC plugged in outside all the time. They seem to be well built. Try and put the receptacle under cover somehow or use an 'in use' weatherproof cover to protect to receptacle connection.

 

[SteveW25561]

Thanks to everyone for their input. In the end, decided to install a 60 amp circuit as my electrician figured we could handle that. This should be plenty and I am happy with the solution.

I could always spring for the 200 amp service if we end up needing it but I think this would be quite unlikely my situation. That is, until I get a Model X as well