Car and Driver suffers Model 3 failure on 12/25, but car told them about it remotely

[TomB985]

This thread has turned a strange direction.

I learned years ago that “you don’t know what you don’t know”. And without being in the engineer in departments of Tesla or other manufacturers, guessing at their intentions seems ridiculous to me.

We know what Elon has said, but that may or may not prove out to actual longevity. That won’t stop the fan boys out there, I just hope none of them suffer an expensive failure out of warranty.

 

[cwerdna]

I don't think the tesla would break down more in that math because it doesn't have as many parts as an ICE engine so X would be much less.

You'd think so and that's the usual reasoning or excuse...

But, take a look at 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Wrap-Up | Edmunds under "Maintenance & Repairs". That was within 17 months and ~30K miles. Ditto for 2016 Tesla Model X Long-Term Road Test - Wrap-Up for 20 months and under 25K miles.

If you picked someone at random who bought a new Toyota or Honda w/a known good reliability record, the odds are very low the driver would have as long a repair list as either of the above within 20 months and 30K miles.

 

[TomB985]

To be fair, I think Tesla’s reliability far and away exceeds anything we could’ve expected from such a new automaker just a few years ago. I think it’s nothing short of amazing that they can put out such a quality product with only a few years experience doing business. The various Tesla forums are relatively quiet compared to the forum for the Chrysler I traded for it when it comes to malfunctions and defects.

But even the best designs can fail, and these cars certainly aren’t immune from that. Lots of people on this forum live in a fantasy world where Tesla can do no wrong and Elon Musk is their God. Reality works a bit different than that.

 

[beto83]

Got my car back yesterday and it’s fixed and ready to go! I believe they told me they replaced my rear motor as well as the pyrofuse. I was told I would get an email of what exactly was fixed so I’ll have a look at it when I get it but for now it’s great to have the car back! SC In dallas did a great job, car was fixed (even did realignment) all within 1 week. Got to drive a loaner model s as well so that helped tremendously.

 

[SouthSeas]

My posts before and after this make my position clear, and answer all your points.

If they were clear I wouldn't have asked. Don't bother. This is not an important issue.

 

[SouthSeas]

We get it, you have had some issue(s) with Tesla quality or service. But we have plenty of equivalent examples of people not having issues (or having what they consider minor issues). I've had cars from many other manufactures. From the same manufacturer, some have had issues and some have not. I don't get to make wild, brand-wide claims about it.

I think sometimes people don't realize just what they are saying. You claim to have equal examples of Tesla doing a good job as to the examples of them not doing a good job. So you are claiming Tesla has a .500 batting average. That would be great if they were in major league baseball.

 

[SouthSeas]

still tons of issues... It is what it is.

That also seems to be Tesla's attitude.

 

[SouthSeas]

Scenario A: An ICE engine fails. The user has to park the car and get the car towed and fixed.
Scenario B: The AP system fails on a Tesla (camera out etc). The user drives home normally without AP, and gets it fixed when he/she has time.

My point is that the CR methodology will group both A and B as major failures, even though they are fundamentally different. In scenario B the car "deteriorated" only to the point that it was functionally equal to the ICE car at its full function. Yet CR will count this as a major failure.

How do you know this? Where does CR post their criteria for major/minor failures?

 

[SouthSeas]

I heard it on the Tesla Daily podcast which had an in depth interview with the director of auto at Consumer Reports. He was commenting how the Model 3 reliability was much better

"Much better" is not '"above" average quality'. He meant it has gotten better than it was. 5 of 12 is pretty much average.

 

[toolman335]

What percent of people leave reviews on anything in this world who like what they have or did? It's not many.
Every time a Tesla is in an accident it makes the news. Every single time. That level of publicity is unprecedented.
C and R give plenty of bad reviews, but the Tesla one actually made the news.

There isn't anyone who is going to keep a Tesla for 500k. No chance of it. In 5 years this car is going to be obsolete and I won't be able to handle better vehicles blowing by me. I plan on keeping mine for.....drumline.....the length of the warranty.

 

[tvad]

I plan on keeping mine for.....drumline.....the length of the warranty.

That sounds about right.

 

[TomB985]

The best part about Internet car forums is being able to see problem areas. By the time any of us reach the end of the powertrain warranty, most known problem spots should be well known.

Seeing what this forum looks like in a couple years will be a big part of my decision to keep it past that point.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Santa was in that area about that time. They should have hitched a ride on his sleigh
Too bad this happened where it gets more publicity.

 

[SouthSeas]

What percent of people leave reviews on anything in this world who like what they have or did? It's not many.
Every time a Tesla is in an accident it makes the news. Every single time. That level of publicity is unprecedented.
C and R give plenty of bad reviews, but the Tesla one actually made the news.

There isn't anyone who is going to keep a Tesla for 500k. No chance of it. In 5 years this car is going to be obsolete and I won't be able to handle better vehicles blowing by me. I plan on keeping mine for.....drumline.....the length of the warranty.

Uh, who are C and R? Is that like Bartles and Jaymes?

 

[focher]

I think sometimes people don't realize just what they are saying. You claim to have equal examples of Tesla doing a good job as to the examples of them not doing a good job. So you are claiming Tesla has a .500 batting average. That would be great if they were in major league baseball.

No, I didn't write that at all and there's no reasonable interpretation of what I wrote to suggest so. The point is that forum posts and articles about quality issues are anecdotes, not data. So no one but Tesla knows the statistics of different types of quality issues. Without data or knowledge, one should properly assume the absence of a condition. C&D would be unlikely to write an article claiming their own experience meant Tesla had an overall quality problem.

I am not saying Tesla doesn't have a systemic quality problem. I'm saying there's no evidence of it, so therefore I am currently left to only conclude that they do not. Single examples are not going to refute that conclusion. Data would be required. Like a recall, or something in their financials showing disproportionately high warranty expenses. Something. But not forum posts, opinions, or owner surveys.

Individuals can choose to read examples and make their own decisions, but that doesn't turn the basis of their decision into universal fact.

 

[SouthSeas]

No, I didn't write that at all and there's no reasonable interpretation of what I wrote to suggest so. The point is that forum posts and articles about quality issues are anecdotes, not data. So no one but Tesla knows the statistics of different types of quality issues. Without data or knowledge, one should properly assume the absence of a condition. C&D would be unlikely to write an article claiming their own experience meant Tesla had an overall quality problem.

I don't want to get in a battle of semantics, but what you claim you didn't say is exactly what you did say...

↑
We get it, you have had some issue(s) with Tesla quality or service. But we have plenty of equivalent examples of people not having issues (or having what they consider minor issues).

So you are comparing my anecdotes to other anecdotes. Now you seem to be saying no one is qualified to make judgement of Tesla because they don't have all the data! So we must "assume" there are no problems unless Tesla says there are problems. lol!!!

I am not saying Tesla doesn't have a systemic quality problem. I'm saying there's no evidence of it, so therefore I am currently left to only conclude that they do not. Single examples are not going to refute that conclusion. Data would be required. Like a recall, or something in their financials showing disproportionately high warranty expenses. Something. But not forum posts, opinions, or owner surveys.

Individuals can choose to read examples and make their own decisions, but that doesn't turn the basis of their decision into universal fact.

Ignoring data because it doesn't meet the requirements of a scientific research paper is even more absurd.

Do you think there is no issue with the center console displays because we don't have irrefutable proof of such? How about the front drive shudder problem?

 

[focher]

What I'm saying is that I don't have either a center console display issue nor a front drive shudder. That doesn't mean you don't. And neither means Tesla has a manufacturing problem with the center console display or front drive shudder.

You seem to be rather absolutist in how you look at things, so you take something and then extrapolate a whole lot from it. So be it. Peace out.

 

[Dolemite]

Great - let's get back on topic.

C&D posted an update. It was posted earlier in the thread:

Our Tesla Model 3 Is Up and Running Again after Sudden Breakdown

Let's hope this was a fluke.

Got my car back yesterday and it’s fixed and ready to go! I believe they told me they replaced my rear motor as well as the pyrofuse. I was told I would get an email of what exactly was fixed so I’ll have a look at it when I get it but for now it’s great to have the car back! SC In dallas did a great job, car was fixed (even did realignment) all within 1 week. Got to drive a loaner model s as well so that helped tremendously.

Did you suffer from the same issue as the C&D article?

There isn't anyone who is going to keep a Tesla for 500k. No chance of it. In 5 years this car is going to be obsolete and I won't be able to handle better vehicles blowing by me. I plan on keeping mine for.....drumline.....the length of the warranty.

I intend to keep mine for at least 300K miles...

 

[afadeev]

I intend to keep mine for at least 300K miles...

How may miles to you drive per year?

For me, it's ~12K, so 300/12 = 25 years.
No way I'm keeping a car that long.

I will get bored of it and move on to something more high-tech in 3-5 years.

 

[Dolemite]

How may miles to you drive per year?

For me, it's ~12K, so 300/12 = 25 years.
No way I'm keeping a car that long.

I will get bored of it and move on to something more high-tech in 3-5 years.

like <5,000. So I'll be driving this car for 60+ years. Looking forward to Version 2079.40.50.7!