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CARB to weaken ZEV?

Discussion in 'News' started by malcolm, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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  2. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Could someone briefly explain what the current ZEV mandate is or point me to a succinct resource? I thought it was already loosened a while back (as part of the reason GM killed the EV1).
     
  3. Alpine Driver

    Alpine Driver Member

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    #3 Alpine Driver, Mar 24, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
    The whitepaper on Ze´evs blog points out a few new facts (to me):

    it says "more than 1000 reservations today" (official spoke was "more than 900" till now).

    And it mentions a 4hr home-recharge (compared to the 3.5h figure)

    The top-speed figure 120mph also differs from the communicated 125mph ??
     
  4. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    The reservations keep rolling in...

    The 3.5 hour recharge didn't seem possible if you did the numbers for a totally empty to totally full pack and considered in all the inefficiencies and extra power draw for temperature control. Still most home charges will be way under 3 hours because most people won't run the pack all the way down.
    (Most people don't drive 200+ miles every day).


    I was expecting the top speed to drop in drivetrain 1.5 because the gearing is going to be between the (old) 1st and 2nd, and they can only raise the redline a little bit with the new PEM and better cooling.

    Still, I think the slow drop in top speed (135->130->125->120) we have seen is a small price to pay for the improved simplicity and reliability as well as the thought that you are never, ever in the wrong gear. Driving over 120mph on the street is a terrible idea. The Tesla Roadster is not a track car in its' current form. Even if the original 2 speed transmission idea was reliable, I still would have picked "drivetrain 1.5" (more torque, no shifting, and reduced top speed) in a heartbeat.
     
  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #5 TEG, Mar 24, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  7. BBHighway

    BBHighway Member

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    Some very interesting comments. I just read the one from Volkswagen, and they are against mandates for BEVs.

    They complain that the mandate would force them to divert R&D from hydrogen to BEVs. But that's exactly what they should do, regardless of the mandate. The bulk of their clean R&D should go into technology that was proven to work 10 years ago, not in something that might work 30 years from now!

    I don't live in CA, so I don't really have a say in this. Still, my state is one of those that tends to follow what CA does, so maybe I should.

    I still think high gas prices sre what will finally give BEVs the push they need to go mainstream.
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #8 vfx, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008



    Absolutely!

    Not only if your State follow CA but even if you want Electric cars to succeed. (You are here so that must be true).

    So goes California, so goes the entire world. Other countries adapt these guidelines.

    And the point of having the carmakers actually produce the hyped concept cars is what will open the floodgates that will make EVs available to everyone.
     
  9. DDB

    DDB Member

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    I emailed the Gov and CARB, and don't live in CA. But I'm sure some of your federal dollars go to road upkeep and you've probably visited--or will. So you mise will state your opinion. As much as I can't stand government interference, for all the places government meddles in the gasser industry, why the hell shouldn't they meddle in the EV industry? Honda, GM, Toyota, etc. have no problem lobbying for credits for their hybrids and such when it helps them sell units...but when it comes to actually producing a vehicle that is truly gas free, now they bitch. And the funny thing about this is that I am of the opinion that the industry will be HELPED because the public wants to buy ZEVs, whether industry realizes it or not. My logic doesn't exactly follow, but this fight should have been over the first time, just like the Iraq war.
     
  10. Alpine Driver

    Alpine Driver Member

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    125mph -> 120mph : only marketing issue?

    TEG,

    I agree with you that it is not so important if a car can do 125mph or 120mph. I am only surprised as 120mph might not be well suitable for marketing purposes - for the european market. If I follow marketing on the tesla homepage, they do mainly marketing in facts & figures.
    120mph = 193,12kmh
    125mph = 201,17kmh
    So only 125mph specification can "hit the wall" and do the marketing "Topspeed: 200kmh" thing in european advertising. A topspeed of 193kmh would be rather ok; but is far more difficult to communicate ;-)
    Typical left lane speed (not by law, but in real life) on the highway in my country is between 150kmh and 160kmh - eqal 100mph. So the roadster is pretty in range.
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Perhaps the European version should be geared slightly differently so it is 0-100kmh < 5, but with a higher top speed. I think American's think of 0-60 as the primary benchmarks, but not so much for much of Europe. The Roadster is better suited as an urban and hill car, and not so much as an autobahn cruiser.
     
  12. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #13 TEG, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016


    (4 cars on site... giving rides)
     
  14. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  15. mike

    mike EVangelist

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    #15 mike, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2008
    Anyone heading up there tomorrow?
    Think I might take off around noon from work and check it out.
    I attended the ZEV Symposium back in September of 06 which was a blast for an EV head. (pics I took from the day here.)
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I wonder if Chris Paine is there filming "Who Saved the Electric Car"?
    (It seems like the usual cast of characters has assembled)

    As much as I would like to go, I can't make it.
     
  17. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    CARB seems to be motivated more by big business and big politics and less by public sentiment.

    California cuts future quotas for clean-air cars - Yahoo! Singapore News

    "Following a marathon session that included testimony from dozens of auto executives and environmentalists, the board voted to reduce the number of pure ZEVs, or cars powered entirely by batteries or hydrogen fuel cells, to 7,500 for the three years from 2012 to 2014. The previous requirement, from 2003, called for 25,000 such vehicles during that period."

    ...

    "Advocates of clean car technologies called the move a step backward for California's push to cut car pollution, and accused the board of kowtowing to automakers."
     
  18. domenick

    domenick Nerd

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    I wonder how fat the checks in the mail for the CARB board are?
     
  19. DDB

    DDB Member

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    As much as I hate government intervention in anything, you are right, CARB folded like Eliot Spitzer at the Playboy Mansion. The answer here is simple. Consumers simply have to vote with their wallets electing only to purchase new cars that plug in, while giving CA's elected officials the finger. :mad:
     

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