Charging the Roadster

[SByer]

So, I'll note that over the last year and a half my driving has definitely adapted and become more efficient. Not sure all the reasons why, but there it is. So, while my ideal full charge miles have been quite steady, though very sloooowly decreasing, my estimated miles at full has been slowly increasing. And I'm not having any less fun. But I've found estimated to be pretty accurate, but it varies a whole lot more - so I also find myself using ideal with a reduction factor sometimes.

 

[TEG]

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/10/public-electric-car-charging-our-first-attempt.html


See also J1772 charging for the Tesla Roadster

 

[kgb]

This thread has 47 pages. Does anyone remember what the consensus was regarding recharging every night as opposed to only when needed? From other threads about the battery pack, we agreed that the battery lasts longer if the SOC is left near 50%. Based on my driving habits, I drive 10 miles/day maybe 60 on a heavy day. As a result, I probably only need to plug in once every 4-5 days. It there an advantage to topping off every night?

 

[tomsax]

My charging is similar to yours. I haven't heard anything to persuade me to charge every night, as long you make sure the battery never gets low in extreme temperatures.

 

[AndrewBissell]

With respect, Tesla say otherwise (according to the postcard they left in the car at the first service, and according to my Tesla technical contact). They strongly encourage you to plug in whenever not driving. They also created Standard Mode and made the car default back to this every chance it gets. I tend to assume they know the engineering of their vehicle and battery pack better than anyone.

 

[tomsax]

The simplest way to keep your battery pack in good health is to take Tesla's advice and charge any time you're parked next to a charger. I'm definitely not trying to talk anyone out of following Tesla's advice. However, if you're actively monitoring your state of charge, and not in an extreme temperature climate, I don't believe it's mandatory to charge every night.

I believe the "charge when you're not driving" was given after some owners in very hot climates experienced problems because they let their battery packs go dead, thus allowing the battery temps to go outside the recommended temperature range.

I think the best support for my statement is that storage mode doesn't keep the batteries full, just above some minimum level.

I'll also note that I believe it's important to allow the charge to complete, in standard mode, when you do charge. It's OK to interrupt a charge when you have a good reason, like charging on a road trip and not wanting to wait for the trickle to complete, but your standard practice should be to allow it to complete.

Although it doesn't directly address this issue, I recommend reading the excellent blog A Bit About Batteries by Martin Eberhard and JB Straubel.

 

[JRP3]

Though different chemistry the prismatic LiFePO4 cells come shipped with half a charge and long term storage for them is suggested at half charge. Just as with the LiCo cells they last longer when not fully charged or discharged. If you don't need the range I can think of no reason to fully charge the pack on a regular basis. If once a week works for you that should be fine.

 

[tdevince]

Though different chemistry the prismatic LiFePO4 cells come shipped with half a charge and long term storage for them is suggested at half charge. Just as with the LiCo cells they last longer when not fully charged or discharged. If you don't need the range I can think of no reason to fully charge the pack on a regular basis. If once a week works for you that should be fine.

According to my Telsa Customer Advocate, all cars are shipped out with a full charge. However, the batteries will lose charge in transit. According to the data my Tesla Customer Advocate sent me, the battery can lose up to 50% in the first week when not plugged in, and from there approximately 5% a week once the charge gets to below 50%. The reason cars are being recieved with less than a full charge (almost half) is that it takes up to a week to deliver the cars once they leave CA.

 

[JRP3]

That's the drawback of Tesla's use of LiCo cells, they have to use a lot of energy in pack climate control.

 

[ChargeIt!]

Hard to believe ... (50% loss), especially at current temps. They should tell you the mileage it had when placed on the truck. Hope that trucker doesn't have any "fun" on the side ...

 

[tomsax]

Hard to believe ... (50% loss), especially at current temps. They should tell you the mileage it had when placed on the truck. Hope that trucker doesn't have any "fun" on the side ...

In my experience, the car loses about one ideal mile (about 0.5%) per day when stored in moderate temperatures. It could use a lot more energy in extreme temperatures.

You could download the log file and use one of the parsers to see exactly what happened with the car since it was given to the truck driver, probably going all the way back to its birth.

 

[vfx]

In my experience, the car loses about one ideal mile (about 0.5%) per day when stored in moderate temperatures. It could use a lot more energy in extreme temperatures.

You could download the log file and use one of the parsers to see exactly what happened with the car since it was given to the truck driver, probably going all the way back to its birth.

Yes 50 percent seems wildly out of bounds. I too see about a mile-a-day loss here in SoCal. Those truckers must be going the long way around.

 

[scott451]

According to my Telsa Customer Advocate, all cars are shipped out with a full charge. However, the batteries will lose charge in transit. According to the data my Tesla Customer Advocate sent me, the battery can lose up to 50% in the first week when not plugged in, and from there approximately 5% a week once the charge gets to below 50%. The reason cars are being recieved with less than a full charge (almost half) is that it takes up to a week to deliver the cars once they leave CA.

tdevince, If you will send me a log dump from your car. I can post a plot of the SOC/charge history since the birth of your car.

-Scott

 

[tdevince]

Scott451: Thanks for the offer. My car is in transit, hopefully I'll receive it this coming weekend. I'll have to figure out how to do a log dump from there. Is it in the owners manual?

 

[AndrewBissell]

The story I have from my Tesla technician about long-term use of Storage Mode as your *driving* charge strategy is that it leads to progressively worse cell imbalance issues.

He also noted that every so often you should do a range mode charge to allow the cell balancing to happen.

Ymmv.

 

[dsm363]

He also noted that every so often you should do a range mode charge to allow the cell balancing to happen.

How often did they recommend charging in Range mode (once a month?)

 

[JRP3]

He also noted that every so often you should do a range mode charge to allow the cell balancing to happen.

Ymmv.

That makes sense since you need to push the cells closer to full for imbalances to show up.

 

[strider]

Hey everyone. I have a charger question. With the purchase of my Roadster last week I have the first EV at my company. Word has spread quickly (I've been giving 2-3 rides/day) and yesterday the Facilities Manager saw me in the hallway and offered to dedicate a parking space and install a charger for me. Now, the treehugger in me doesn't really want the charger (My commute is only 25 miles each way so I have tons of range to spare and it's better for the environment to charge during off-peak hours). That being said I would love to have an up-front parking space so I'm thinking about saying yes.

My question is what charger should I recommend to him to install? I would think a charger w/ the new J1772 would be best in case someone buys a Leaf, I'll get a Model S in the future, etc. Are there J1772 chargers available now? Or is there a charger that has a Tesla plug now and could be converted to J1772?

 

[TEG]

I would seize the opportunity in the name of other future EV owners that don't have the range like you do.
Yes, J1772 can be bought now, and you should be able to get a J1772 to Tesla Roadster adapter "any day now", so you could use it yourself if you ever had some issue such as inability to charge at home the night before or some-such.

You should probably pursue the J1772 to Tesla solution regardless as it will become more and more useful for road-trips you might take someday.

Look around on this forum... some have already built their own adapters... Some got J1772 to NEMA14-50 then plug the Tesla MC into it.

Related:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/4297-J1772-at-Plug-in-2010
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/4478-J1772-Charging-for-the-Tesla-Roadster
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/4624-SAE-J1772-to-NEMA-1450-adapters

 

[tomsax]

Hi Strider,

Welcome to the world of Roadster ownership!

Here are the charging station choices as I see them:

120V Outlet - 3 miles of range pre hour of charging is pretty slow, but could be helpful for any EV driver. This is an OK choice if 120V is already available at the charging spot and cost is to be minimized.

Tesla HPWC (formerly known as HPC): The best possible charger for the Roadster, up to 60 miles of range per hour of charging, but useless to everyone else. I would consider this only if your workplace would make a good charging location for other Roadsters passing through town, or perhaps if you get a free HPWC through the Roadster referral program.

NEMA 14-50 outlet: Useful for charging with a mobile connector, up to 36 miles of range per hour, some other legacy EVs can also use this type of outlet, but not useful to Leaf, Volt owners. This is an OK choice if 240V/50A is already available at the charging spot and cost is to be minimized.

J1772 Charging Station: Handy for what will soon be the majority of EVs on the road, not so handy for the Roadster today. I expect Tesla will provide us with a solution, most likely an expensive adapter, but that's just conjecture at this point. If Tesla doesn't come through, a third party solution may solve the problem. There's more detail on the J1772 thread.

One possible option would be a charging station that has both Level 2 J1772 and a Level 1 120V outlet. This would be handy for you to pick up a little charge with the MC120, and more useful if/when there's a J1772 solution for us. It would also be useful for Leaf, Volt, etc., owners.

There are a number of federal grant programs out there to get free J1772 charging stations, through ChargePoint America or The EV Project, plus a few others. As I understand it, if you can get funding for running the wiring to the charge location, the grants pay for the charger itself.

So, here's the ideal plan: have your company run wires capable of delivering 240V/100A to where the charger will be located. Apply for a grant to get a free ChargePoint or Ecotality charger. These chargers only need a 40A circuit, because they only deliver 30A instead of the full 80A allowed by the J1772 spec. Some day, it may be desirable to install a full 80A charger and it will be a lot easier and cheaper to do that if you don't have to run new wires.

If your company is serious about supporting EVs, I'd recommend this document (PDF) from the Puget Sound Regional Council model guidance for EV infrastructure which is partly specific to Washington state, but has great advice on recommended signage, handicap access, etc., see pages 24-27.

Finally, beware of putting EV charging in an especially desirable parking place. That often leads to resentment and having the spot taken by someone who doesn't need charging: an obnoxious ICE owner, a confused Prius owner, or an EV owner who just wants the parking. It's the wisdom of the experienced EV community to put EV Charging in places where it will get used for charging and not just parking.